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  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,846
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    political folly
    Says the man who spends his time campaigning for a party with 12 seats :wink:
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,150
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    political folly
    Says the man who spends his time campaigning for a party with 12 seats :wink:

    So he supports a Conference club whilst you hang on to the coat tails of a Premier team?!
    The world is not black and white (contrary to popular misconception), it is 99% grey.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • meursault
    meursault Posts: 1,433
    Pinno wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    political folly
    Says the man who spends his time campaigning for a party with 12 seats :wink:

    So he supports a Conference club whilst you hang on to the coat tails of a Premier team?!
    The world is not black and white (contrary to popular misconception), it is 99% grey.

    My team (Leyton Orient), are on the brink of extinction, like my socialist politics?
    Superstition sets the whole world in flames; philosophy quenches them.

    Voltaire
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,150
    meursault wrote:
    Pinno wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    political folly
    Says the man who spends his time campaigning for a party with 12 seats :wink:

    So he supports a Conference club whilst you hang on to the coat tails of a Premier team?!
    The world is not black and white (contrary to popular misconception), it is 99% grey.

    My team (Leyton Orient), are on the brink of extinction, like my socialist politics?

    I think the evidence points to the contrary.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    political folly
    Says the man who spends his time campaigning for a party with 12 seats :wink:

    Mate, I back the party I think would be the most capable governors of the UK, and I back them on the policies I think are right, rather than backing them blindly.

    I don't join others to attempt to sabotage them, however deliciously they backfire.
    _
  • meursault
    meursault Posts: 1,433
    Pinno wrote:
    meursault wrote:
    Pinno wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    political folly
    Says the man who spends his time campaigning for a party with 12 seats :wink:

    So he supports a Conference club whilst you hang on to the coat tails of a Premier team?!
    The world is not black and white (contrary to popular misconception), it is 99% grey.

    My team (Leyton Orient), are on the brink of extinction, like my socialist politics?

    I think the evidence points to the contrary.

    Possibly, but remember Corbyn is a reformist. Still good value though, for scaring the bejeebus out of capitalist pig dog reactionaries.
    Superstition sets the whole world in flames; philosophy quenches them.

    Voltaire
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    meursault wrote:
    remember Corbyn is a reformist. Still good value though, for scaring the bejeebus out of capitalist pig dog reactionaries.
    Scary thought indeed that there are people who think that Corbyn is a moderate.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,866
    If we do eventually get Prime Minister Corbyn, I'll be able to proudly say that I never voted for him.
  • meursault
    meursault Posts: 1,433
    bompington wrote:
    meursault wrote:
    remember Corbyn is a reformist. Still good value though, for scaring the bejeebus out of capitalist pig dog reactionaries.
    Scary thought indeed that there are people who think that Corbyn is a moderate.

    Sighs, not moderate, reformist.
    Superstition sets the whole world in flames; philosophy quenches them.

    Voltaire
  • meursault
    meursault Posts: 1,433
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    If we do eventually get Prime Minister Corbyn, I'll be able to proudly say that I never voted for him.

    As can the Majority for Maybot.
    Superstition sets the whole world in flames; philosophy quenches them.

    Voltaire
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,209
    What do those more right-leaning regulars make of Robert Halfon, then?

    He was on Newsnight last night with the rather colourful claim that without major reform - focusing on blue collar conservatism - the party is doomed.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    bompington wrote:
    meursault wrote:
    remember Corbyn is a reformist. Still good value though, for scaring the bejeebus out of capitalist pig dog reactionaries.
    Scary thought indeed that there are people who think that Corbyn is a moderate.

    What is not moderate about someone who stands for equality and peace?

    Is boasting nuclear deterrent a moderate thing to do? Is "hard Brexit" a moderate policy? Is someone who doesn't listen to anybody in the cabinet and pretends to press on with Brexit without consulting the parliament a moderate?

    Are 7 years of austerity that resulted in wealth accumulation for the rich moderate? Isn't it what used to happen in the middle ages with the king and the lords?

    Or... was the late Tony Blair a moderate? When he got obsessed with weapons of mass destruction and launched a military campaign all over the middle east and Asia... was he a moderate? When he was tongue and cheek with Bush, was he displaying moderate politics?
    left the forum March 2023
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,150
    Looks like the loony left have got one over on you Bompy.
    Maybe the right are a little tetchy and paranoid, Or have they always been like that?
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • Lookyhere
    Lookyhere Posts: 987
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    meursault wrote:
    remember Corbyn is a reformist. Still good value though, for scaring the bejeebus out of capitalist pig dog reactionaries.
    Scary thought indeed that there are people who think that Corbyn is a moderate.

    What is not moderate about someone who stands for equality and peace?

    Is boasting nuclear deterrent a moderate thing to do? Is "hard Brexit" a moderate policy? Is someone who doesn't listen to anybody in the cabinet and pretends to press on with Brexit without consulting the parliament a moderate?

    Are 7 years of austerity that resulted in wealth accumulation for the rich moderate? Isn't it what used to happen in the middle ages with the king and the lords?

    Or... was the late Tony Blair a moderate? When he got obsessed with weapons of mass destruction and launched a military campaign all over the middle east and Asia... was he a moderate? When he was tongue and cheek with Bush, was he displaying moderate politics?

    Spot on!

    i would add that May said she would launch a preemptive Nuclear strike and thats a moderate policy????? lets end history shall we?
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,846
    Pinno wrote:
    Looks like the loony left have got one over on you Bompy.
    Maybe the right are a little tetchy and paranoid, Or have they always been like that?
    What, like they 'got one over' by losing the general election? :D

    The loony left's definition of success appears to be losing by less than expected. A great case of creating success by lowering expectations? :wink:
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Pinno wrote:
    Looks like the loony left have got one over on you Bompy.
    Maybe the right are a little tetchy and paranoid, Or have they always been like that?
    What, like they 'got one over' by losing the general election? :D

    The loony left's definition of success appears to be losing by less than expected. A great case of creating success by lowering expectations? :wink:

    i appreciate you are trying to big it out but pls forget Labour, they are not in power and can cause no harm or for that matter any good.

    do you honestly think the tories &TM are in a better place now than they were pre snap election and hence the country?
    Are we stronger in europe/brexit negotiations now or a bit of a laughing stock?

    as a reporter said when May and Macron got together "europes strongest leader meets europes weakest" and he wasnt referring to Macron!

    because from where i am standing May has gone from being perceived as strong and stable to being decidedly weak and indecisive.
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    Lookyhere wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    meursault wrote:
    remember Corbyn is a reformist. Still good value though, for scaring the bejeebus out of capitalist pig dog reactionaries.
    Scary thought indeed that there are people who think that Corbyn is a moderate.

    What is not moderate about someone who stands for equality and peace?

    Is boasting nuclear deterrent a moderate thing to do? Is "hard Brexit" a moderate policy? Is someone who doesn't listen to anybody in the cabinet and pretends to press on with Brexit without consulting the parliament a moderate?

    Are 7 years of austerity that resulted in wealth accumulation for the rich moderate? Isn't it what used to happen in the middle ages with the king and the lords?

    Or... was the late Tony Blair a moderate? When he got obsessed with weapons of mass destruction and launched a military campaign all over the middle east and Asia... was he a moderate? When he was tongue and cheek with Bush, was he displaying moderate politics?

    Spot on!

    i would add that May said she would launch a preemptive Nuclear strike and thats a moderate policy????? lets end history shall we?

    Nuclear weapons are only a deterrent if you know they will be used. Saying you will not use them fully removes the deterrent and put the country you govern at more risk.

    It's the perfect example of ideological thinking of the inexperienced verses reality.

    Ideologically, I would not fire a nuclear weapon but I would not let anyone who may be an aggressor know this. I want to keep that deterrent live.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    It's irrelevant. By the time you want to use a nuke there is already a nuke inbound in which case there is global MAD anyway.
    _
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    It's irrelevant. By the time you want to use a nuke there is already a nuke inbound in which case there is global MAD anyway.

    Yes, you have just outlined the Corbyn approach.

    Realists know no one is going to fire a nuke at you if they know they will be getting at least one back thus wiping themselves out as well.

    It's not even a nuke v nuke situation either. You would not attack a country that has a nuke that you know would fire it.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Look, I'm as firm a believer in MAD as the next person - if you're gonna have it you'll use it.

    But a) the point of trident is even in the event of the annihilation of the UK, the nukes will still be launched - that's why they're a deterrent. They're subs. They're all over the world.

    What Corbyn or the PM wants to do is semi irrelevant, partly for the reason above, and b) as a member of NATO, the deterrent still exists regardless.

    And, I don't believe a UK PM would never use a nuke in any instance other than an instance of either certain imminent attack or already inbound nukes - in which case, as above, it's irrelevant.
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    What I do find odd though is why so much weight is attached to this incredibly hypothetical scenario.

    There is a hell of a lot more that impacts our lives than this.


    Is this honestly the best attack on him? There must be more credible and powerful criticisms of him and his policies than whether he wants to play a part in hypothetical global annihilation or be a bystander in hypothetical global annihilation.
    _
  • bianchimoon
    bianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    meursault wrote:
    remember Corbyn is a reformist. Still good value though, for scaring the bejeebus out of capitalist pig dog reactionaries.
    Scary thought indeed that there are people who think that Corbyn is a moderate.

    What is not moderate about someone who stands for equality and peace?

    Is boasting nuclear deterrent a moderate thing to do? Is "hard Brexit" a moderate policy? Is someone who doesn't listen to anybody in the cabinet and pretends to press on with Brexit without consulting the parliament a moderate?

    Are 7 years of austerity that resulted in wealth accumulation for the rich moderate? Isn't it what used to happen in the middle ages with the king and the lords?

    Or... was the late Tony Blair a moderate? When he got obsessed with weapons of mass destruction and launched a military campaign all over the middle east and Asia... was he a moderate? When he was tongue and cheek with Bush, was he displaying moderate politics?
    Good points ugo
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • bianchimoon
    bianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Pinno wrote:
    Looks like the loony left have got one over on you Bompy.
    Maybe the right are a little tetchy and paranoid, Or have they always been like that?
    What, like they 'got one over' by losing the general election? :D

    The loony left's definition of success appears to be losing by less than expected. A great case of creating success by lowering expectations? :wink:
    Cmon stevo, your better than this, above it all...have more lucid arguments etc, :wink:
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    I can't believe we are still talking nukes as if they were a relevant topic.

    They have been used on two occasions in the space of 3 days. Everybody have seen what they do, they will never be used again. A modern day Hitler would not use them, Stalin would not use them and even the Korean t-wat would not use them. Nobody would use them. It's time we rewind to 1986 when some concerted efforts were made to reduce them... let's go all the way and ban them. Let's all stop thinking there is a moral high ground in owning them but not using them... there isn't... you have them, you don't use them, you don't kill anybody with them, but you prevent lives being saved spending money on them...

    Fcuk them and fcuk all those who think nukes are a good thing or a necessary thing in this time and age... they are not, you moron
    left the forum March 2023
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    It's nice to see moderate opinions so reasonably and logically stated.
  • FocusZing
    FocusZing Posts: 4,373
    There has been hundeds of nuclear bomb tests globally. The largest:
    The Tsar Bomba detonated at 11:32 Moscow Time on 30 October 1961, over the Mityushikha Bay nuclear testing range (Sukhoy Nos Zone C), north of the Arctic Circle over the Novaya Zemlya archipelago in the Arctic Ocean. The bomb was dropped from an altitude of 10.5 km (6.5 mi); it was designed to detonate at a height of 4 km (13,000 ft) over the land surface (4.2 km (14,000 ft) over sea level) by barometric sensors.[7][17][19]

    The original, November 1961 AEC estimate of the yield was 55–60 megatons, but since 1992, all Russian sources have stated its yield as 51 megatons. Khrushchev warned in a filmed speech to the Supreme Soviet of the existence of a 100 megaton bomb. (Technically the design was capable of this yield.) Although simplistic fireball calculations predicted the fireball would hit the ground, the bomb's own shock wave reflected back and prevented this.[20] The fireball reached nearly as high as the altitude of the release plane and was visible at almost 1,000 km (620 mi) away from where it ascended. The mushroom cloud was about 64 km (40 mi) high (over seven times the height of Mount Everest), which meant that the cloud was above the stratosphere and well inside the mesosphere when it peaked. The cap of the mushroom cloud had a peak width of 95 km (59 mi) and its base was 40 km (25 mi) wide.[21][22]

    All buildings in the village of Severny (both wooden and brick), located 55 km (34 mi) from ground zero within the Sukhoy Nos test range, were destroyed. In districts hundreds of kilometers from ground zero wooden houses were destroyed, stone ones lost their roofs, windows, doors, and radio communications were interrupted for almost one hour. One participant in the test saw a bright flash through dark goggles and felt the effects of a thermal pulse even at a distance of 270 kilometres (170 mi). The heat from the explosion could have caused third-degree burns 100 km (62 mi) away from ground zero. A shock wave was observed in the air at Dikson settlement 700 km (430 mi) away; windowpanes were partially broken to distances of 900 kilometres (560 mi).[23] Atmospheric focusing caused blast damage at even greater distances, breaking windows in Norway and Finland. Despite being detonated 4.2 km above ground, its seismic body wave magnitude was estimated at 5–5.25.[10][20] Sensors continued to identify the shockwaves after their third trip around the world.[11

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Bomba

    All that radiation pumped into the atmosphere, irresponsible beyond belief.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,846
    bianchimoon wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Pinno wrote:
    Looks like the loony left have got one over on you Bompy.
    Maybe the right are a little tetchy and paranoid, Or have they always been like that?
    What, like they 'got one over' by losing the general election? :D

    The loony left's definition of success appears to be losing by less than expected. A great case of creating success by lowering expectations? :wink:
    Cmon stevo, your better than this, above it all...have more lucid arguments etc, :wink:
    OK, I concede. The loony left did get one over us by losing the election. I guess it's all part of Corbyns plan to continue the grand tradition of leftie losers :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    bianchimoon wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Pinno wrote:
    Looks like the loony left have got one over on you Bompy.
    Maybe the right are a little tetchy and paranoid, Or have they always been like that?
    What, like they 'got one over' by losing the general election? :D

    The loony left's definition of success appears to be losing by less than expected. A great case of creating success by lowering expectations? :wink:
    Cmon stevo, your better than this, above it all...have more lucid arguments etc, :wink:
    OK, I concede. The loony left did get one over us by losing the election. I guess it's all part of Corbyns plan to continue the grand tradition of leftie losers :)

    So i take it you think May and the Tories are in a stronger position than pre GE ? and that getting the DUP on board was part of Mays master plan to inc ALL regions in Gov policy lol!
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    bompington wrote:
    It's nice to see moderate opinions so reasonably and logically stated.

    If you have ran out of stupid things to say, the bottom bracket is only one line down... I'd press on if I were you
    left the forum March 2023
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Fcuk them and fcuk all those who think nukes are a good thing or a necessary thing in this time and age... they are not, you moron
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    If you have ran out of stupid things to say, the bottom bracket is only one line down... I'd press on if I were you

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