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letap73

It will be funded by debt and that can will just be kicked further down the road.

The electorate, both young and old rejected responsible management of the country's finances and sensible solutions to looming issues e.g. elderly care costs and ever increasing pension commitments.

The tories are now responding to that threat to losing power with similar policies.

At some point this will correct.

I thought you said that all would be fine and dandy after Brexit will all the billions that will be pouring into the country.

briantrumpet

Stevo 666 wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

To be fair to the Conservatives, they did say that the only alternative to a Conservative win was a coalition of chaos. Promise made, promise kept.

If you think a Corbyn government is a good idea...

You seem to be under the misapprehension that everyone who didn't approve of what the Tories were offering (whatever that actually was) must therefore love everything that Corbyn had on offer.

coopster_the_1st

letap73 wrote:

It will be funded by debt and that can will just be kicked further down the road.

The electorate, both young and old rejected responsible management of the country's finances and sensible solutions to looming issues e.g. elderly care costs and ever increasing pension commitments.

The tories are now responding to that threat to losing power with similar policies.

At some point this will correct.

I thought you said that all would be fine and dandy after Brexit will all the billions that will be pouring into the country.

I rejected the Project Fear economics of a leave vote. I have been proved right on that.

The national debt and deficit we have, would not have vanished had we voted to remain. That problem would exist with either outcome.

A labour spending spree could in some way have been predicted. The size of the giveaway could not be predicted. The same as we cannot predict the extent of the damage to the economy.

We now have to accept that at some point in the future, a generation will have to suffer, probably similar to the Greeks right now, to fix this debt problem that we are storing up. This is the monster that has been let out of the cage with this election result

surrey_commuter

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

At least you have worked out who won the election, unlike some on here

I'm struggling. It can't be the party that had a majority and then lost it.

I think it might be Lord Buckethead. He got a trip to New York out of it.

Think of it in terms of the party that is occupying Number 10

Which is now falling over itself to adopt other parties' policies like a less rigid approach to Brexit, relieving austerity and ending the public sector pay freeze, keeping the pension triple lock, rethinking social care funding.

I'm not sure where they are going to find the money that 1 week ago they were absolutely certain the other parties couldn't find, but they're a resourceful lot. I'm sure they'll think of something

It will be funded by debt and that can will just be kicked further down the road.

The electorate, both young and old rejected responsible management of the country's finances and sensible solutions to looming issues e.g. elderly care costs and ever increasing pension commitments.

The tories are now responding to that threat to losing power with similar policies.

At some point this will correct. I just hope that the burden falls on a labour govt to implement sensible financial management* to resolve it so that they learn you cannot bribe and spend your way out of debt.

*Not that I think they can ever be trusted to do this

Based upon your assumption that economics does not exist upon what are you basing your assumptions/forecasts?

surrey_commuter

Coopster the 1st wrote:

letap73 wrote:

It will be funded by debt and that can will just be kicked further down the road.

The electorate, both young and old rejected responsible management of the country's finances and sensible solutions to looming issues e.g. elderly care costs and ever increasing pension commitments.

The tories are now responding to that threat to losing power with similar policies.

At some point this will correct.

I thought you said that all would be fine and dandy after Brexit will all the billions that will be pouring into the country.

I rejected the Project Fear economics of a leave vote. I have been proved right on that.

The national debt and deficit we have, would not have vanished had we voted to remain. That problem would exist with either outcome.

A labour spending spree could in some way have been predicted. The size of the giveaway could not be predicted. The same as we cannot predict the extent of the damage to the economy.

We now have to accept that at some point in the future, a generation will have to suffer, probably similar to the Greeks right now, to fix this debt problem that we are storing up. This is the monster that has been let out of the cage with this election result

I am starting to think you don't even know what economics is

coopster_the_1st

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

letap73 wrote:

It will be funded by debt and that can will just be kicked further down the road.

The electorate, both young and old rejected responsible management of the country's finances and sensible solutions to looming issues e.g. elderly care costs and ever increasing pension commitments.

The tories are now responding to that threat to losing power with similar policies.

At some point this will correct.

I thought you said that all would be fine and dandy after Brexit will all the billions that will be pouring into the country.

I rejected the Project Fear economics of a leave vote. I have been proved right on that.

The national debt and deficit we have, would not have vanished had we voted to remain. That problem would exist with either outcome.

A labour spending spree could in some way have been predicted. The size of the giveaway could not be predicted. The same as we cannot predict the extent of the damage to the economy.

We now have to accept that at some point in the future, a generation will have to suffer, probably similar to the Greeks right now, to fix this debt problem that we are storing up. This is the monster that has been let out of the cage with this election result

I am starting to think you don't even know what economics is

If we are abandoning any hope of getting the deficit to zero or even positive what do you think will eventually happen?

veronese68

Coopster the 1st wrote:

I rejected the Project Fear economics of a leave vote. I have been proved right on that.

... breathes ...

bianchimoon

Veronese68 wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

I rejected the Project Fear economics of a leave vote. I have been proved right on that.

... breathes ...

Couldn't make it up could you

Stevo_666

briantrumpet wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

To be fair to the Conservatives, they did say that the only alternative to a Conservative win was a coalition of chaos. Promise made, promise kept.

If you think a Corbyn government is a good idea...

You seem to be under the misapprehension that everyone who didn't approve of what the Tories were offering (whatever that actually was) must therefore love everything that Corbyn had on offer.

No. Where did I say that?

surrey_commuter

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

letap73 wrote:

It will be funded by debt and that can will just be kicked further down the road.

The electorate, both young and old rejected responsible management of the country's finances and sensible solutions to looming issues e.g. elderly care costs and ever increasing pension commitments.

The tories are now responding to that threat to losing power with similar policies.

At some point this will correct.

I thought you said that all would be fine and dandy after Brexit will all the billions that will be pouring into the country.

I rejected the Project Fear economics of a leave vote. I have been proved right on that.

The national debt and deficit we have, would not have vanished had we voted to remain. That problem would exist with either outcome.

A labour spending spree could in some way have been predicted. The size of the giveaway could not be predicted. The same as we cannot predict the extent of the damage to the economy.

We now have to accept that at some point in the future, a generation will have to suffer, probably similar to the Greeks right now, to fix this debt problem that we are storing up. This is the monster that has been let out of the cage with this election result

I am starting to think you don't even know what economics is

If we are abandoning any hope of getting the deficit to zero or even positive what do you think will eventually happen?

Last night you rejected the very notion of economics. Now you are modelling the impact of the increasing UK debt

kingstongraham

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

If we are abandoning any hope of getting the deficit to zero or even positive what do you think will eventually happen?

Last night you rejected the very notion of economics. Now you are modelling the impact of the increasing UK debt

It is a valid question, though.

surrey_commuter

KingstonGraham wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

If we are abandoning any hope of getting the deficit to zero or even positive what do you think will eventually happen?

Last night you rejected the very notion of economics. Now you are modelling the impact of the increasing UK debt

It is a valid question, though.

Personally (and many disagree) I believe that people will stop buying gilts which effectively means we will have to live within our means. Think UK and the IMF in the 1970's and Greece more recently.

Personally I think we need to keeps bearing down on public expenditure until we reach a level that is sustainable. This assumes that current levels of public sector wages, spending (inc pensions) is unaffordable.

Think of us as the mate who keeps racking up,debt on credit cards and HP seemingly all paid for by their own personal money tree.

As said above I fully accept that I am in a minority with an old fashioned aversion to debt.

We currently spend nearly £50bn a year servicing outstanding debts. Life would look very different if somebody else had been more prudent in the past.

Stevo_666

Surrey Commuter wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

If we are abandoning any hope of getting the deficit to zero or even positive what do you think will eventually happen?

Last night you rejected the very notion of economics. Now you are modelling the impact of the increasing UK debt

It is a valid question, though.

Personally (and many disagree) I believe that people will stop buying gilts which effectively means we will have to live within our means. Think UK and the IMF in the 1970's and Greece more recently.

Personally I think we need to keeps bearing down on public expenditure until we reach a level that is sustainable. This assumes that current levels of public sector wages, spending (inc pensions) is unaffordable.

Think of us as the mate who keeps racking up,debt on credit cards and HP seemingly all paid for by their own personal money tree.

As said above I fully accept that I am in a minority with an old fashioned aversion to debt.

We currently spend nearly £50bn a year servicing outstanding debts. Life would look very different if somebody else had been more prudent in the past.

I agree with pretty much all of that.

One question though: why do you think people (and I assume you mean that to include corporates and institutions) will stop buying gilts?

rjsterry

And if the public refuses to vote for what you have described - and at the very least they seem to be losing patience with ever diminishing public services and indefinite public sector pay freezes - what then?

Stevo_666

rjsterry wrote:

And if the public refuses to vote for what you have described - and at the very least they seem to be losing patience with ever diminishing public services and indefinite public sector pay freezes - what then?

Eventually the public may find out the hard way if/when we get to the point where we can't pay, as opposed to won't pay. A very probable scenario if Corbyn got into power and stuck to his manifesto.

surrey_commuter

Stevo 666 wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

If we are abandoning any hope of getting the deficit to zero or even positive what do you think will eventually happen?

Last night you rejected the very notion of economics. Now you are modelling the impact of the increasing UK debt

It is a valid question, though.

Personally (and many disagree) I believe that people will stop buying gilts which effectively means we will have to live within our means. Think UK and the IMF in the 1970's and Greece more recently.

Personally I think we need to keeps bearing down on public expenditure until we reach a level that is sustainable. This assumes that current levels of public sector wages, spending (inc pensions) is unaffordable.

Think of us as the mate who keeps racking up,debt on credit cards and HP seemingly all paid for by their own personal money tree.

As said above I fully accept that I am in a minority with an old fashioned aversion to debt.

We currently spend nearly £50bn a year servicing outstanding debts. Life would look very different if somebody else had been more prudent in the past.

I agree with pretty much all of that.

One question though: why do you think people (and I assume you mean that to include corporates and institutions) will stop buying gilts?

risk of default on the coupon, redemption or both. More specifically as credit rating drops it will lock out many funds

surrey_commuter

Stevo 666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

And if the public refuses to vote for what you have described - and at the very least they seem to be losing patience with ever diminishing public services and indefinite public sector pay freezes - what then?

Eventually the public may find out the hard way if/when we get to the point where we can't pay, as opposed to won't pay. A very probable scenario if Corbyn got into power and stuck to his manifesto.

Then they accept a £50bn a year deficit that will spiral in the next recession. If I am right then one day (way after Corbyn) they will be faced with a Greek like cessation of imports and Govt unable to pay public sector workers at which point the bogeyman will instil financial discipline in exchange for a bail out.

In the meantime keep voting for the guy who promises jam today and to orrow

pinno

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Then they accept a £50bn a year deficit that will spiral in the next recession. If I am right then one day (way after Corbyn) they will be faced with a Greek like cessation of imports and Govt unable to pay public sector workers at which point the bogeyman will instil financial discipline in exchange for a bail out.

It's okay, we'll be gagging to get back into the EU by then to tap into the urban and rural development funds and get things back on track.

coopster_the_1st

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

letap73 wrote:

It will be funded by debt and that can will just be kicked further down the road.

The electorate, both young and old rejected responsible management of the country's finances and sensible solutions to looming issues e.g. elderly care costs and ever increasing pension commitments.

The tories are now responding to that threat to losing power with similar policies.

At some point this will correct.

I thought you said that all would be fine and dandy after Brexit will all the billions that will be pouring into the country.

I rejected the Project Fear economics of a leave vote. I have been proved right on that.

The national debt and deficit we have, would not have vanished had we voted to remain. That problem would exist with either outcome.

A labour spending spree could in some way have been predicted. The size of the giveaway could not be predicted. The same as we cannot predict the extent of the damage to the economy.

We now have to accept that at some point in the future, a generation will have to suffer, probably similar to the Greeks right now, to fix this debt problem that we are storing up. This is the monster that has been let out of the cage with this election result

I am starting to think you don't even know what economics is

If we are abandoning any hope of getting the deficit to zero or even positive what do you think will eventually happen?

Last night you rejected the very notion of economics. Now you are modelling the impact of the increasing UK debt

I rejected that they were accurate in economic forecasting. When economists start presenting when their predictions will occur, how much the impact will be and/or what will cause it that is when I know they have moved onto guesswork.

As the famous quote goes:

An economist is an expert who will know tomorrow why the things he predicted yesterday didn't happen today.

coopster_the_1st

Surrey Commuter wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

If we are abandoning any hope of getting the deficit to zero or even positive what do you think will eventually happen?

Last night you rejected the very notion of economics. Now you are modelling the impact of the increasing UK debt

It is a valid question, though.

Personally (and many disagree) I believe that people will stop buying gilts which effectively means we will have to live within our means. Think UK and the IMF in the 1970's and Greece more recently.

Personally I think we need to keeps bearing down on public expenditure until we reach a level that is sustainable. This assumes that current levels of public sector wages, spending (inc pensions) is unaffordable.

Think of us as the mate who keeps racking up,debt on credit cards and HP seemingly all paid for by their own personal money tree.

As said above I fully accept that I am in a minority with an old fashioned aversion to debt.

We currently spend nearly £50bn a year servicing outstanding debts. Life would look very different if somebody else had been more prudent in the past.

I pretty much agree with all of that. The £50bn cost of servicing the debt comment is particularly spot on. Imagine what would be available to country if we had half that debt and that was only costing us £25bn a year!

surrey_commuter

Pinno wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Then they accept a £50bn a year deficit that will spiral in the next recession. If I am right then one day (way after Corbyn) they will be faced with a Greek like cessation of imports and Govt unable to pay public sector workers at which point the bogeyman will instil financial discipline in exchange for a bail out.

It's okay, we'll be gagging to get back into the EU by then to tap into the urban and rural development funds and get things back on track.

I think it was Rick who posted a chart showing much of the country to be ona par with Greece so may be a better comparison would be Venezuela

Stevo_666

Pinno wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Then they accept a £50bn a year deficit that will spiral in the next recession. If I am right then one day (way after Corbyn) they will be faced with a Greek like cessation of imports and Govt unable to pay public sector workers at which point the bogeyman will instil financial discipline in exchange for a bail out.

It's okay, we'll be gagging to get back into the EU by then to tap into the urban and rural development funds and get things back on track.

Given that we are net contributors to the EU, this would be just getting some of our money back in a way that the EU chooses.

mamba80

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Then they accept a £50bn a year deficit that will spiral in the next recession. If I am right then one day (way after Corbyn) they will be faced with a Greek like cessation of imports and Govt unable to pay public sector workers at which point the bogeyman will instil financial discipline in exchange for a bail out.

It's okay, we'll be gagging to get back into the EU by then to tap into the urban and rural development funds and get things back on track.

Given that we are net contributors to the EU, this would be just getting some of our money back in a way that the EU chooses.

exactly how much will that be after we take out the inevitable lose of trade and what seems to be the long term move of finance from London to the EU, not least euro clearing?

new trade deals will take years to achieve and longer still to bear fruit.

a year ago inflation was 0.3% its now 2.9% so we ll certainly need this EU money tree.....

Stevo_666

mamba80 wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Then they accept a £50bn a year deficit that will spiral in the next recession. If I am right then one day (way after Corbyn) they will be faced with a Greek like cessation of imports and Govt unable to pay public sector workers at which point the bogeyman will instil financial discipline in exchange for a bail out.

It's okay, we'll be gagging to get back into the EU by then to tap into the urban and rural development funds and get things back on track.

Given that we are net contributors to the EU, this would be just getting some of our money back in a way that the EU chooses.

exactly how much will that be after we take out the inevitable lose of trade and what seems to be the long term move of finance from London to the EU, not least euro clearing?

new trade deals will take years to achieve and longer still to bear fruit.

a year ago inflation was 0.3% its now 2.9% so we ll certainly need this EU money tree.....

I am talking only about the net contributions. Anyway, that's for the Eurobollox thread, this is the leftiebollox thread

mamba80

these threads seem to have morphed into one huge political thread.......

briantrumpet

Could we have a thread about testicles, then we could have a bolloxbollox thread? Well, I suppose we could have a leftiebolloxbollox thread, and a rightiebolloxbollox thread, if people want to differentiate.

rolf_f

briantrumpet wrote:

Could we have a thread about testicles, then we could have a bolloxbollox thread? Well, I suppose we could have a leftiebolloxbollox thread, and a rightiebolloxbollox thread, if people want to differentiate.

Why differentiate. Bollox is bollox whichever side it comes from - both produce it in equal measures.

rick_chasey

https://www.ineteconomics.org/perspecti ... government

A take on why some goods and services should stay in the public domain.

Stevo_666

mamba80 wrote:

these threads seem to have morphed into one huge political thread.......

Maybe we could merge them and call the resulting mega-thread the 'big bollox' thread?

rick_chasey

Stevo 666 wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

these threads seem to have morphed into one huge political thread.......

Maybe we could merge them and call the resulting mega-thread the 'big bollox' thread?

And spoil the forum's reminder of your political folly?

Not a chance.