Giro Stage 10 - spoilers

Yellow Peril

k-dog wrote:

Are you still allowed to work together in a break or is every stage a TTT now?

good point.

ddraver

The only slight silver glimmer in this dark cloud is that everyone with any knowledge of cycling on twitter is united that this is utterly ridiculous (apart from one man who is just contrary for the sake of it). Genuinely never seen that before...

The_Boy

Above The Cows wrote:

So those supposed betting syndicates and race fixing shenanigans in Italy... I always thought that was a load of crap myself.

:roll:

Why on Earth would you think that? It's not just Italy either.

Only problem is, I thought it was the UCI applying the rule in this instance?

blazing_saddles

frenchfighter wrote:

ddraver wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Someone has found this from earlier in the race:

Gianni Meersman
‏@GianniMeersman
I crashed in the final downhill because of a puncture. Had to wait for 10min to get another front wheel. Thx @TeamSky for the help #fairplay

https://twitter.com/GianniMeersman/stat ... 0256460800

That's brilliant. So they can't even be consistent with in the same race!! (Or was this Cali?)

It is pretty simple. They didn't see him do it. If there was a photo brought to their attention they would have fined him.

They fine and penalize riders daily.

The comment DD made was about consistency and yet you disagree.........
..... by highlighting it's a rule that can only be enforced selectively.

gweeds

frenchfighter wrote:

Gweeds wrote:

That tweet has been out there for 8 days. So they'll obviously dock him 2 mins now. Quite why you think they need a photo when someone has admitted it is beyond me.

1. he is not even in the race anymore
2. you can dock someone on the day but not a week later
3. you need a photo as a photo doesn't lie but people can say whatever the f*ck they like

Deal with it.

Get some help. Soon.

andyp

The_Boy wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

So those supposed betting syndicates and race fixing shenanigans in Italy... I always thought that was a load of crap myself.

:roll:

Why on Earth would you think that? It's not just Italy either.

Only problem is, I thought it was the UCI applying the rule in this instance?

The UCI appoint a race jury of commissaires, one of whom is the chief commissaire. I imagine the lead on this particular jury is ignoring all calls with a +41 prefix tonight.

above_the_cows

ddraver wrote:

The only slight silver glimmer in this dark cloud is that everyone with any knowledge of cycling on twitter is united that this is utterly ridiculous (apart from one man who is just contrary for the sake of it). Genuinely never seen that before...

Well there's Joe Papp calling for an application of the rules proving once and for all that there's nothing like a born again convert when it comes to dogmatic extremism.

frenchfighter

Pross wrote:

Probably because they didn't think it would ever be applied unless there was some genuine attempt at cheating involved or, more likely, they never even knew it was there - have you seen the length of the UCI regulation book?

As for Froome, I suspect a 20 second penalty was seen as a good result considering the time he'd have lost. Arguably it was a far worse offence and should have been penalised more harshly than Porte today.

Yeah I just read the time docking section. It's pretty small and straightforward. It's not cheating - that is a 10min penalty.

Pross wrote:

As for Froome, I suspect a 20 second penalty was seen as a good result considering the time he'd have lost. Arguably it was a far worse offence and should have been penalised more harshly than Porte today.

Porte could easily have lost an additional 30 secs if he had waited for a teammate. One of them arrives later when the wheel is already on. You can also see from the replay that the team start dropping off the back of the peloton quite a bit later. Ie/. they were not at his side and doing their job properly. If they had, as soon as Porte says he has punctured, the teammate right next to him stops at the same time and gives him the wheel or bike immediately.

frenchfighter

Above The Cows wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

According to Mauro Vegni the UCI commissaire

He's not the UCI commissaire - he's the Giro boss (equivalent to Prudhomme at the Tour)

Ah OK, that actually makes it worse.

Vegni didn't give the initial penalty.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vegni-r ... porte-case

--

@SimoClarke 44m44 minutes ago
Feeling sad for @richie_porte. Tried to help a friend as most would. I'm sorry about the outcome of all this!

@hornerakg 49m49 minutes ago
Don't worry, no wheels were exchanged in the making of this photo... @BillyDemong @richie_porte @giroditalia

@f_cancellara 13m13 minutes ago
this is big sportsmanship i guess guess.felt sorry for @richie_porte and the penalty he got.

RonB

frenchfighter wrote:

Pross wrote:

Probably because they didn't think it would ever be applied unless there was some genuine attempt at cheating involved or, more likely, they never even knew it was there - have you seen the length of the UCI regulation book?

As for Froome, I suspect a 20 second penalty was seen as a good result considering the time he'd have lost. Arguably it was a far worse offence and should have been penalised more harshly than Porte today.

Yeah I just read the time docking section. It's pretty small and straightforward. It's not cheating - that is a 10min penalty.

Pross wrote:

As for Froome, I suspect a 20 second penalty was seen as a good result considering the time he'd have lost. Arguably it was a far worse offence and should have been penalised more harshly than Porte today.

Porte could easily have lost an additional 30 secs if he had waited for a teammate. One of them arrives later when the wheel is already on. You can also see from the replay that the team start dropping off the back of the peloton quite a bit later. Ie/. they were not at his side and doing their job properly. If they had, as soon as Porte says he has punctured, the teammate right next to him stops at the same time and gives him the wheel or bike immediately.

But I think there was a teammate right next to him in the photo.

frenchfighter

Next time a rider gets done for this then I expect a similar outpouring of support on the forum and on twitter. Otherwise you are just choosing who the rules can be applied to, Animal Farm style.

mfin

Dear God,

If you have a sense of humour could you please give Contador a series of mechanicals tomorrow that cost him about 4 minutes.

Thanks.

gweeds

frenchfighter wrote:

Next time a rider gets done for this then I expect a similar outpouring of support on the forum and on twitter. Otherwise you are just choosing who the rules can be applied to, Animal Farm style.

Like you've done with Contador and the helmet.

mfin

frenchfighter wrote:

Next time a rider gets done for this then I expect a similar outpouring of support on the forum and on twitter. Otherwise you are just choosing who the rules can be applied to, Animal Farm style.

Stop bringing Contador into everything.

frenchfighter

Plus, all this talk about wonderful sportsmanship etc. It is worth noting that he likely only did it because he is his friend. Doubt he would have done it if Contador or Aru had been in the exact same situation. Hundreds of examples of GC riders out the back and riders from other teams riding past them.

No_Ta_Doctor

frenchfighter wrote:

Next time a rider gets done for this then I expect a similar outpouring of support on the forum and on twitter. Otherwise you are just choosing who the rules can be applied to, Animal Farm style.

Rules is rules.

Remind us how many GTs Contador has won, according to the explicit rules of the UCI?

Thanks.

RichN95.

frenchfighter wrote:

Next time a rider gets done for this then I expect a similar outpouring of support on the forum and on twitter. Otherwise you are just choosing who the rules can be applied to, Animal Farm style.

If it had been Contador or Aru then I would have said the same. (As would you). I want to see a good race won by the best rider. Not some farce decided by jobsworths.

I have had a lot of experience with sporting officials who think that they are the most important.

gweeds

Your hard-on for Contador precludes you from seeing any sense. Deal with it.

joelsim

RichN95 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Next time a rider gets done for this then I expect a similar outpouring of support on the forum and on twitter. Otherwise you are just choosing who the rules can be applied to, Animal Farm style.

If it had been Contador or Aru then I would have said the same. (As would you). I want to see a good race won by the best rider. Not some farce decided by jobsworths.

I have had a lot of experience with sporting officials who think that they are the most important.

Exactly. Just hope Bert and Fab et al stop just before the line tomorrow and wait for 2 minutes.

Imagine that and how good it would be for the sport.

RichN95.

frenchfighter wrote:

Plus, all this talk about wonderful sportsmanship etc. It is worth noting that he likely only did it because he is his friend. Doubt he would have done it if Contador or Aru had been in the exact same situation. Hundreds of examples of GC riders out the back and riders from other teams riding past them.

Similarly Tiralongo only paced Contador to victory at the 2012 Vuelta because he was his friend. I doubt he would have done that for Rodriguez.

RichN95.

frenchfighter wrote:

Plus, all this talk about wonderful sportsmanship etc. It is worth noting that he likely only did it because he is his friend. Doubt he would have done it if Contador or Aru had been in the exact same situation. Hundreds of examples of GC riders out the back and riders from other teams riding past them.

Similarly Tiralongo only paced Contador to victory at the 2012 Vuelta because he was his friend. I doubt he would have done that for Rodriguez.

talius

Would be preferable if this thread was about cycling, rather than about FF. But I appreciate he's hard to ignore.

The_Boy

RichN95 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Plus, all this talk about wonderful sportsmanship etc. It is worth noting that he likely only did it because he is his friend. Doubt he would have done it if Contador or Aru had been in the exact same situation. Hundreds of examples of GC riders out the back and riders from other teams riding past them.

Similarly Tiralongo only paced Contador to victory at the 2012 Vuelta because he was his friend. I doubt he would have done that for Rodriguez.

Already done that *angry*

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

Good sportsmanship between competitors is all very nice but rules must be obeyed or the sports integrity would be damaged.

There's a lot of this 'follow the rules' chat - what's the rule?

I can't find it even when I'm pointed at it.

All they talk about is 'unfair assistance' which could mean bloody anything.

takethehighroad

Has no one stopped to think what this does to Simon Clarke's GC chances? I mean, he's the only one punished today who's actually worn Pink in this Giro.

Seriously though, I've read through 17 pages of talk about the rule being enforced, but no one's asked why it's there in the first place?

I can't think of a decent reason, other than the fact wheel suppliers pay money to supply Team Sky and Orica, but otherwise it is a highly inconsistent way of enforcing a rule that no one knew about and no one really knows why it exists...

joelsim

TakeTheHighRoad wrote:

Has no one stopped to think what this does to Simon Clarke's GC chances? I mean, he's the only one punished today who's actually worn Pink in this Giro.

Seriously though, I've read through 17 pages of talk about the rule being enforced, but no one's asked why it's there in the first place?

I can't think of a decent reason, other than the fact wheel suppliers pay money to supply Team Sky and Orica, but otherwise it is a highly inconsistent way of enforcing a rule that no one knew about and no one really knows why it exists...

To try to stop unfair collaboration between teams.

Clearly when someone has had a mechanical it's a bit different to riding off into the sunset.

No_Ta_Doctor

TakeTheHighRoad wrote:

Has no one stopped to think what this does to Simon Clarke's GC chances? I mean, he's the only one punished today who's actually worn Pink in this Giro.

Seriously though, I've read through 17 pages of talk about the rule being enforced, but no one's asked why it's there in the first place?

I can't think of a decent reason, other than the fact wheel suppliers pay money to supply Team Sky and Orica, but otherwise it is a highly inconsistent way of enforcing a rule that no one knew about and no one really knows why it exists...

It's there for a good reason - to prevent riders and teams recruiting unfair help across teams. This was just a very, very poor example of it in action.

above_the_cows

Rick Chasey wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Good sportsmanship between competitors is all very nice but rules must be obeyed or the sports integrity would be damaged.

There's a lot of this 'follow the rules' chat - what's the rule?

I can't find it even when I'm pointed at it.

All they talk about is 'unfair assistance' which could mean bloody anything.

Exactly Mr Chasey. It allows for an ad hoc application of the 'rules' as and when anyone so as feels like it.

RichN95.

Rick Chasey wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Good sportsmanship between competitors is all very nice but rules must be obeyed or the sports integrity would be damaged.

There's a lot of this 'follow the rules' chat - what's the rule?

I can't find it even when I'm pointed at it.

All they talk about is 'unfair assistance' which could mean bloody anything.

Detention.

Write out 100 times - "I will consider the whole post so that I may appreciate the sarcasm"

rick_chasey

Meh, point still stands.

What's the rule, verbatim?