Giro Stage 10 - spoilers

RichN95.

Rick Chasey wrote:

Meh, point still stands.

What's the rule, verbatim?

No, it doesn't still stand. At least not in response to me.

Don't take a bit of my posts and take it mean something that it clearly wasn't meant to.

In summary - don't be a tw@t

joelsim

Rick Chasey wrote:

Meh, point still stands.

What's the rule, verbatim?

17.2.7
Small Australians will have 2 minutes added to their time when in competition with Azzuri, especially those riding for suspect teams.

adr82

frenchfighter wrote:

Plus, all this talk about wonderful sportsmanship etc. It is worth noting that he likely only did it because he is his friend. Doubt he would have done it if Contador or Aru had been in the exact same situation. Hundreds of examples of GC riders out the back and riders from other teams riding past them.

I thought Contador would be in great danger from this kind of thing what with him being the best loved and most popular rider in the peloton and all that...

gweeds

Rick Chasey wrote:

Meh, point still stands.

What's the rule, verbatim?

UCI rule 12.1.040 prohibits “non-regulation assistance to a rider from another team”

http://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/Rule ... nglish.PDF

bobmcstuff

Wondered how the thread had suddenly got to 17 pages!

That's pretty pathetic really isn't it. I just wanted to see a proper race, not this nonsense.

adr82

Gweeds wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Meh, point still stands.

What's the rule, verbatim?

UCI rule 12.1.040 prohibits “non-regulation assistance to a rider from another team”

http://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/Rule ... nglish.PDF

"But what is 'non-regulation assistance'?"
"Oh don't worry we'll know it when we see it"

rick_chasey

Gweeds wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Meh, point still stands.

What's the rule, verbatim?

UCI rule 12.1.040 prohibits “non-regulation assistance to a rider from another team”

http://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/Rule ... nglish.PDF

Yeah I saw that one - doesn't define what non regulation is AFAICS

above_the_cows

bobmcstuff wrote:

Wondered how the thread had suddenly got to 17 pages!

Weren't expecting THAT on a bog standard flat stage eh?

gweeds

It does. Look at the chart within. IIRC its section 9.2.

But they seriously expect every rider to know all of that document.

bobmcstuff

To have a rule like that they must define what regulation assistance is somewhere?

Otherwise it is literally a complete farce. The way it's written they can do whatever they want (or is that the point?).

I thought they were trying to fix cycling's image problem?

dolan_driver

The UCI have scored a major own goal against the sport with this decision.

As everyone has highlighted, does Contador now get the door after removing his helmet last Sunday?

The Giro now has a serious credibility issue for the second year in row. Rigoberto Uran got mugged last year after the commissaire couldn't remember if he had neutralised the race or not on the Stelvio descent. This year a race favourite is all but eliminated from the podium fight for an infraction of the rules which at best saved him 20 seconds whilst still losing time on the stage.

It appears the unwritten rules of cycling (which benefit everyone) are slowly being eroded by the stricter enforcement of the UCI rule book. Perhaps the stricter regime is being driven by the current obsession to conform with the perceived demands of political correctness, which seems to call for each and every rule to be enforced ruthlessly in every part of modern life. Common sense is sadly lacking here.

The thing is that there was nothing sinister behind the wheel change. The wheel was offered up because the two riders are friends and share the same nationality, not because SKY paid a visit to the Orica bus last week and broke out the cheque book to buy favours in the coming weeks.

DD.

gweeds

So we're all agreed the UCI blow goats.

above_the_cows

Dolan Driver wrote:

The UCI have scored a major own goal against the sport with this decision.

As everyone has highlighted, does Contador now get the door after removing his helmet last Sunday?

The Giro now has a serious credibility issue for the second year in row. Rigoberto Uran got mugged last year after the commissaire couldn't remember if he had neutralised the race or not on the Stelvio descent. This year a race favourite is all but eliminated from the podium fight for an infraction of the rules which at best saved him 20 seconds whilst still losing time on the stage.

It appears the unwritten rules of cycling (which benefit everyone) are slowly being eroded by the stricter enforcement of the UCI rule book. Perhaps the stricter regime is being driven by the current obsession to conform with the perceived demands of political correctness, which seems to call for each and every rule to be enforced ruthlessly in every part of modern life. Common sense is sadly lacking here.

The thing is that there was nothing sinister behind the wheel change. The wheel was offered up because the two riders are friends and share the same nationality, not because SKY paid a visit to the Orica bus last week and broke out the cheque book to buy favours in the coming weeks.

DD.

I don't think its political correctness but an over reaction to the lack of enforcement of the rules during the 'doping era'. The fact that they in fact don't actually enforce the rules equally now is what makes it worse.

smithy21

It's a rule, it's been enforced. Not sure I am completely with Frenchie on this one but I can see the other side of the argument if for example they had just ignored it.
I don't see Porte as the sort of character to just throw in the towel.

The bedwetters and Contador's helmet brigade on here though. :roll:

above_the_cows

smithy21 wrote:

It's a rule, it's been enforced. Not sure I am completely with Frenchie on this one but I can see the other side of the argument if for example they had just ignored it.
I don't see Porte as the sort of character to just throw in the towel.

The bedwetters and Contador's helmet brigade on here though. :roll:

But that is the whole point. They ignore numerous rule infractions that carry far more serious punishments every stage. People will question why this one was enforced.

I think it is fair that people are peeved at what appears to be an ad hoc application of the rules on the whims of those with the power to do so, just as in say the political arena people are also angered at such a haphazard exercise in power.

Paul 8v

Wheels from other teams has gone on in the past and nobody bats an eyelid, sticky bottle? That's OK. Magic spanner? OK too.

What a load of balls, was the convoy not stopped at the time meaning he couldn't get a wheel anyway? I'm only just catching up on this, been at a horrendous TT tonight :-)

gweeds

If they're being consistent.....every sticky bottle/gel/magic spanner/using team cars to draft back on after a mechanical....they all get pinged now. And we have a sport with no allowances for human nature.

Nothing to do with bed wetting. Everything to do with inconstistency.

awavey

Gweeds wrote:

It does. Look at the chart within. IIRC its section 9.2.

But they seriously expect every rider to know all of that document.

maybe not the rider, but the DS ?
"Ive got a puncture mate"
"for gawds sake dont take anyone elses replacement wheel but a teammate if we cant get to you !!!"

I dont think its an unknown rule, its just badly written because it encompasses literally anything you could potentially think of & is rarely implemented rule because commissaires are never that consistent.

Ive seen in other local races obviously not grand tours,but where other teams helped out in the same way and no-one took issue,yet equally I saw a rider crash at a local track meet, stuffed the tubular on their carbon wheel and absolutely no-one stepped into lend her a replacement.

Paul 8v

Above The Cows wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

I will be in Milan for the finale. Shall I stage a dirty protest on the podium? Maybe I'll storm the stage dressed as a Toberlone shouting 'Justice for the Hobart One'.

If you do this I'll buy you a crate of champagne!

This would be amazing!

above_the_cows

roccia ‏@davideformolo 2h2 hours ago

@SimoClarke @marie_cyclo @richie_porte we can't know some crazy rules... #KeepGoing

fleshtuxedo

So freaking amateurish innit. Rules applied differently at races by different officials with no apparent oversight by or accountability to the world governing body. Seemingly always in the favour of the local teams and riders.

UCI should get a grip on how their rules are upheld.

Vino'sGhost

frenchfighter wrote:

It wasn't just giving him a wheel. It was also pacing him back. It is not really acceptable that Orica do that for Sky - they would probably do it for no other team.

This is the point, it wasn't a gel or a water bottle it was two teams working for one. 18 against 9

fleshtuxedo

Vino'sGhost wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

It wasn't just giving him a wheel. It was also pacing him back. It is not really acceptable that Orica do that for Sky - they would probably do it for no other team.

This is the point, it wasn't a gel or a water bottle it was two teams working for one. 18 against 9

No it was 6 blokes off the back, working against a peloton of 100 for the last 5km, and losing 45 seconds. I suggest you watch the stage.

joelsim

Vino'sGhost wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

It wasn't just giving him a wheel. It was also pacing him back. It is not really acceptable that Orica do that for Sky - they would probably do it for no other team.

This is the point, it wasn't a gel or a water bottle it was two teams working for one. 18 against 9

Oh do me a favour. Getting riders who have had mechanicals back into the bunch goes on in every race. Hardly using two teams to gain an unfair advantage. FFS.

dolan_driver

Vino'sGhost wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

It wasn't just giving him a wheel. It was also pacing him back. It is not really acceptable that Orica do that for Sky - they would probably do it for no other team.

This is the point, it wasn't a gel or a water bottle it was two teams working for one. 18 against 9

Is there any video of all 9 Orica riders leading Porte from today's stage after his puncture? I know at least one Orica rider wasn't in a position to lead him to the finish!!!!! I saw one Orica rider with two SKY riders ahead of Porte in the closing kilometres and he never hit the front of the small group, he was in third wheel and struggling to hold on as was Porte. All he got from Orica was a wheel.

DD.

tailwindhome

Via Inner Ring.

I'd be fairly sure the 'pushing' should be interpreted as pushing for a period of time rather than a shove back into the race from a standing start.

DeVlaeminck

Wow just caught up with this news. I can see why the UCI can't allow this kind of collaboration and I can see why there is a rule against it but for me - possibly repeating what others have said - I can't see why there has to be a set 2 minute penalty. How much time did Porte actually save by this - I don't know but I'm pretty certain it was nothing like 2 minutes. Dock him 10 seconds, 30 seconds or whatever seems a reasonable estimate of time saved and I don't think anyone in the race could really complain - effectively ending his chances of winning the race is not only unfair it doesn't do the race any favours.

thomthom

I really don't know what to think about this. Obviously, one side of it is that rules are not followed in every single race so why should this be penalised so hard - but on the other hand.. If I were on one of the rival teams I'd think to myself that Greenedge had no business helping like this creating a massive advantage. Porte made a mistake in jumping off his bike in the left side of the road for whatever reason (DS told Tv2 Denmark that that cost him some time - didn't mention if they simply passed him because of this..), Sky also thought that they could play on two horses in this sitution by having riders and eye one Viviani as well and finally, quite simple, a rider like Porte should never be in a position where someone from another team has to give him a wheel (even helping him putting it on) and pace him/push him in order for him to get going again - this wasn't the chaos that is Paris Roubaix. This was quite the contrary.

There's a borderline helping and doing favours and the more I think about it the more i think they went over it.

That said, harsh penalty and probably also too harsh.

fleshtuxedo

TailWindHome wrote:

Via Inner Ring.

I'd be fairly sure the 'pushing' should be interpreted as pushing for a period of time rather than a shove back into the race from a standing start.

"Dropped or involved in an accident"

So, the rule doesn't include stops for mechanical problems? Hate to nitpick, but....

thomthom

A puncture is obviously not an accident. Let's not get silly now.