BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
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bobmcstuff wrote:Hunt also proposing a Norway style relationship, only with some controls on migration - don't see that flying.
Osborne this morning basically said "I told you so" but not in as many words.
We're gonna end up just as tied into all the eu laws, but have no say in what they are. So pretty much exactly what both sides didn't want.
Isnt politics fantastic.You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
The greatest lie ever told, or not told, wasn't the £350 million. It was that you're going to get out, pay the same, and pay more taxes.
You know what. I'm over it now. Let's get on with it and let's get that tax rise in place because I'd quite like to ensure that all of our projects such as the NHS, farming, science, tech and universities are properly funded going forward.My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
https://twitter.com/roubaixcc
Facebook? No. Just say no.0 -
Rolf F wrote:Mr Goo wrote:Interesting facts Bo.
More irrelevant misrepresentation than facts.
Exactly. EDF are doing Hinckley as the French have embraced nuclear technology while Britain couldn't decide what to do and so we need their expertise. The Chinese are providing funding, not sure about steel but as far as I'm aware the reactor technology is not Chinese and is new so has 't failed anywhere.
As for many others on the list, these are global companies looking to cut costs by moving out of the U.K. And the EU are just ensuring the jobs in the EU. Those jobs would probably have gone to India or the Far East without EU funding. If anyone thinks leaving the EU will stop that then they really are as stupid as people have been suggesting - the UK will now be expensive and no longer have free access to the EU market.0 -
Pross wrote:Rolf F wrote:Mr Goo wrote:Interesting facts Bo.
More irrelevant misrepresentation than facts.
Exactly. EDF are doing Hinckley as the French have embraced nuclear technology while Britain couldn't decide what to do and so we need their expertise. The Chinese are providing funding, not sure about steel but as far as I'm aware the reactor technology is not Chinese and is new so has 't failed anywhere.
As for many others on the list, these are global companies looking to cut costs by moving out of the U.K. And the EU are just ensuring the jobs in the EU. Those jobs would probably have gone to India or the Far East without EU funding. If anyone thinks leaving the EU will stop that then they really are as stupid as people have been suggesting - the UK will now be expensive and no longer have free access to the EU market.
Linky on previous page. If correct virtually none had any form of EU funding. Though, of course, many new plants and start ups will have that. The list also conveniently omits how many new jobs in the UK have been created with EU funding or Government grants that might be from EU funding.My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
https://twitter.com/roubaixcc
Facebook? No. Just say no.0 -
Surrey Commuter wrote:Mr Goo wrote:Bo Duke wrote:Just been sent this, seems to be some food for thought.
"A short list of financial and industrial FUBARs from the EU...
And of course, the real deal-breaker .... Democracy, transparency and independence. We can vote out our MPs - BUT the European Commission who dictate 55% of UK laws, which are legally binding, are ..... guess what, untouchable, unelected and hidden from view."
I
Better in the long run to have self determination even if it is painful for a period of time.
Also what do you mean by self-determination?
Does being part of a larger open market mean that industries, and hence jobs, will go to lower cost areas? Yes.
But it needs to be put into a bigger context of creating more international demand, and hence higher GDP growth and prosperity. There are people whose job it is to work out the total gain or loss to the nation of the UKs membership of the EU. They are called economists and, (despite Roosevelt's insistence on hiring a one armed economist as he was fed up with them all saying "on the other hand" all the time) they have UNIVERSALLY told us the UK will be worse off not in Europe. The brexit camp has already stated they dont trust experts who analyze these facts. OK, but in that case dont quote facts in your argument if you dont wish to believe those who understand these facts best. The assumption that we can "cherry pick" the parts of the EU trade deals we wish whilst at the same time protecting UK industries is completely specious.
The only nations with true "auto-determination" in the modern world are the biggest (China) or the poorest (North Korea and Zimbabwe. ) Guess in which direction we are heading with this decision, of course not to those levels, but no richer.Fitter....healthier....more productive.....0 -
Pross wrote:EDF are doing Hinckley as the French have embraced nuclear technology while Britain couldn't decide what to do and so we need their expertise. The Chinese are providing funding, not sure about steel but as far as I'm aware the reactor technology is not Chinese and is new so has 't failed anywhere.
There were some issues with steelwork at Flamanville but it was detected and is being rectified - no catastrophic failure.
The EPR (European Pressurised Reactor) is an extremely overbuilt system with (some would say) excessive amounts of safety systems and so on, which is one of the reasons the projects have been so expensive and delayed.0 -
Bo Duke wrote:"A short list of financial and industrial FUBARs from the EU...
Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers’ pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs.
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dr
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU.
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK.
The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.
Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK.
Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't.
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20 second search .....ARM holdings, formed in 1990 under eu and a global semi conductor company
Grants? they were LOANS, my sister lost her job with Ford, uk plants were losing money and had suffered job loses for years, Turkish plant was boosting production and making money, all these are red top headlines.
we do not make the correct type of steel to build armoured vehicles but we do make parts for Airbus... for now.
we do not have the tech to build a nuclear PS of any type and procurement is down to UK
the UK made a decision decades ago to support services and not manufacturing, so EU still makes hi end cars motorcycles and bicycles, we do not, we either closed down or allowed to be sold.
Raliegh sacked all their bicycles makers and moved to alloy and glue fabrication, then sold to the canadians
we do have a great banking and financial sector, something the EU does not have, that pays huge amounts of tax and has grown under our EU period of membership.
EU has a direct hand in about 7% of our laws, we do enact eu laws in UK statute, things like laws on tobacco production or pearl fishing, its a continental market, laws are enacted across the EU for ALL member states.
tell me what EU laws effect your life?0 -
Mr Goo wrote:
Interesting facts Bo.
Most on here will simply dismiss this as Daily Mail tripe because many of them work in sectors allied to the banks and financial institutions so nothing else counts.
I think most will dismiss it as bollocks because it's bollocks. (I don't work banking or any allied sector and never have.)
Do you work in any of the companies mentioned - the one I have worked in that is mentioned is definitely misrepresented.0 -
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I'd be intrigued to know how much support Juncker has in Brussels. He's not really helping things.0
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I think that's one of the things the Brexiters are pinning their hopes on (his eve-of-poll intervention smacked of trying to force the issue in his direction), but I'd not expect a threatened organisation (the EU) to turn on one of its own, even if his views aren't universally shared.TheBigBean wrote:I'd be intrigued to know how much support Juncker has in Brussels. He's not really helping things.0 -
TheBigBean wrote:I'd be intrigued to know how much support Juncker has in Brussels. He's not really helping things.
Poland aint happy with him.A feather is kinky, a whole chicken is just perverse.0 -
Watching the European Parliament is surprisingly interesting. Common sense from some, fighting talk from others.0
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bendertherobot wrote:The greatest lie ever told, or not told, wasn't the £350 million. It was that you're going to get out, pay the same, and pay more taxes.
You know what. I'm over it now. Let's get on with it and let's get that tax rise in place because I'd quite like to ensure that all of our projects such as the NHS, farming, science, tech and universities are properly funded going forward.
Not sure if that is tongue in cheek but I am told that the Govt's money is being poured into keeping the economy afloat. tax increases will not be enough to plug the hole - there will be more cuts.
Big things to look out for that could trigger an emergency budget;
Next week is big sale of gilts - this will tell us the markets view on our financial viability.
14th July MPC monthly meeting
OBR sustainability report
Biggest impact on the market is nobody knows where we are, the Leave campaign is not a cohesive body and has no policy objectives.
With this in mind do the Tories have to elect a Leaver as PM and for them to become the de-facto Leave campaign with the authority to establish objectives?
In case anybody wants to hear the experts opinion - things are far worse than expected or you/we even realise.0 -
briantrumpet wrote:
I think that's one of the things the Brexiters are pinning their hopes on (his eve-of-poll intervention smacked of trying to force the issue in his direction), but I'd not expect a threatened organisation (the EU) to turn on one of its own, even if his views aren't universally shared.TheBigBean wrote:I'd be intrigued to know how much support Juncker has in Brussels. He's not really helping things.
It has just been pointed out to me that the Leave campaign (Brexiteers) are not a cohesive organisation. As such they have no hopes, fears or objectives. This is the problem.0 -
Farage is pulling no punches: "I know none of you have ever done a proper job in your lives"0
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TheBigBean wrote:Farage is pulling no punches: "I know none of you have ever done a proper job in your lives"
so now we find out what he really thinks of his voters0 -
TheBigBean wrote:Farage is pulling no punches: "I know none of you have ever done a proper job in your lives"
They didn't have to work their way up from the slums of Dulwich college through the physical toil of commodities trading to get there.0 -
It's like you didn't read a single thing I wrote about manufacturing Goo, leaving the EU market will shrink it considerably. If you still can't grasp this then I suggest you stop ruminating on the subject.0
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Interesting to note the UK's growth since joining the EU. Better than the US and Germany for starters.
http://www.inet.ox.ac.uk/news/Brexit0 -
KingstonGraham wrote:Mr Goo wrote:
Interesting facts Bo.
Most on here will simply dismiss this as Daily Mail tripe because many of them work in sectors allied to the banks and financial institutions so nothing else counts.
I think most will dismiss it as **** because it's ****. (I don't work banking or any allied sector and never have.)
Do you work in any of the companies mentioned - the one I have worked in that is mentioned is definitely misrepresented.
I didn't believe most of it but wasn't qualified to comment until I got to the Hinckley bit which was the biggest stinking pile of **** I've seen since last night in Nice. I knew a bit about that from research I'd done when I was shortlisted for an engineering job at another nuclear power station.0 -
KingstonGraham wrote:TheBigBean wrote:Farage is pulling no punches: "I know none of you have ever done a proper job in your lives"
They didn't have to work their way up from the slums of Dulwich college through the physical toil of commodities trading to get there.
and then barely turn up for work in 17 years...
Brexiters need to make him go away fast...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
I fact checked Peugeot and Dyson when my FiL sent that to me last week. Peugeot denied at the time having used any EU money to support the move. That's not to say that Slovakia didn't offer them favourable conditions with the support of EU subsidies. That's apparently what happened with Dyson - they'd already chosen to relocate, only the final destination was influenced by EU money (Poland was originally their preferred choice), and that was on Slovakia, not Dyson. IMO that some of the info there lacks credibility calls in to question the credibility of the whole piece.morstar wrote:Not going to fact check that lot but as a starter for 10. 'Some' airports are owned by Spanish companies. That is global trade my friend, not and eu decision.
Raleigh haven't made bikes in UK for many years. That is symptomatic of a UK decline in manufacturing.
It appears the authors main issue is the decline of UK manufacturing. A domestic issue rather than an Eu one as Germany is a successful manufacturing nation. A uk focus on financial services appears to be your main concern. One I too, as a remainer, completely share.0 -
Given that Osborne's post referendum speech said there will be tax rises and further cuts if we were to leave the EU, wouldn't the sensible thing to do be to just impose tax rises to cover the shortfall on Leave voters?0
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I don't know about this particular situation with Dyson but I know previously they were going to relocate to (I think) Ireland. In that case it was nothing to do with EU funding but a dispute with the Planning Authority who were making life difficult for them.
I also notice the exit campaigners were claiming that Boeing announcing they are going to have their European HQ in London showed their support to leave. Fair play to Boeing, to have made that decision within a few hours of the vote result shows they are highly proactive. Alternatively, the decision had already been made based on months / years of planning and the timing was entirely coincidental.0 -
Seems I misremembered what I'd checked - it was actually JLR, not Dyson, that I checked on. While I'm talking about Dyson though, I was disappointed the James Dyson (champion of British Industry and pro-Brexit) drives a Ferrari. Or at least he did a few years ago when I was at their plant in Malmesbury for a meeting. I was disappointed he didn't drive something more British...JoeNobody wrote:I fact checked Peugeot and Dyson when my FiL sent that to me last week. Peugeot denied at the time having used any EU money to support the move. That's not to say that Slovakia didn't offer them favourable conditions with the support of EU subsidies. That's apparently what happened with Dyson - they'd already chosen to relocate, only the final destination was influenced by EU money (Poland was originally their preferred choice), and that was on Slovakia, not Dyson. IMO that some of the info there lacks credibility calls in to question the credibility of the whole piece.0 -
Why would the EU pay for Dyson to move to Malaysia? It isn't even in the EU.
Smells mighty fishy to me.0 -
We have done a lot of work for the JLR Slovakia project.
JLR are also doing a lot of new construction in the UK as well - There's a major upgrade/new area going on at EMC (Wolverhampton) and a new facility at Fen End etc. so it's not like they are ditching UK (yet).0 -
