BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Pross wrote:The Welsh Goverment are saying replacing the Structural Funding and agricultural subsidies has to be a priority for spending the money saved on EU membership. Um, no - the people in these areas (which includes me) need to take the consequences of their actions.
At some point next year there will be a lot of confusion in Pontypridd as to why the local authority are now charging for entry to Ponty lido.My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
https://twitter.com/roubaixcc
Facebook? No. Just say no.0 -
bendertherobot wrote:Pross wrote:The Welsh Goverment are saying replacing the Structural Funding and agricultural subsidies has to be a priority for spending the money saved on EU membership. Um, no - the people in these areas (which includes me) need to take the consequences of their actions.
At some point next year there will be a lot of confusion in Pontypridd as to why the local authority are now charging for entry to Ponty lido.
And complaining about the traffic on the remaining single carriageway bottleneck section on the HoV. I honestly don't think a lot of the population here realised how much money was being pumped in. It's not just those projects either, being in the EU gives the area the chance to attract major inward investment (it brought in LG although a Far East recession killed that before it ever really got going). It's alright though, we can have a few more high quality call centre jobs instead.0 -
4kicks wrote:
Actually we may end up with a "Libdem" (/remain) and a "nationalist" party....bobmcstuff wrote:Pross wrote:Anyone see the Labour and Conservative parties splitting over this leaving a choice of 6 nation wide parties and the nationalist parties to choose from in future elections (and therefore coalition governments)?
Something's got to give.
I think we need a general election, and urgently, just so we have some leadership in place which actually has a mandate to govern in this situation - and more importantly a plan (as the GE campaign would be focused on plans for the negotiations).
Agree that a General election is needed. However, and perhaps this is just me adding further fuel to a raging carfire, what happens if that election ends up with a government with a manifesto against Brexit?
It would mean the parties would all have to come up with a post-Brexit plan in their manifesto and then the winner would have some legitimacy in the negotiations (from all sides).
If a pro remain manifesto won, well that hadn't crossed my mind at all..........0 -
florerider wrote:Pross wrote:The Welsh Goverment are saying replacing the Structural Funding and agricultural subsidies has to be a priority for spending the money saved on EU membership. Um, no - the people in these areas (which includes me) need to take the consequences of their actions.
Must admit, that one did come as a surprise, especially Rhonda Cynon Taff and Merthyr Tydfill. One big unfinished road out there unless a lot is built in 2 years. The farming areas were a surprise too, given the direct support and lack of understanding how the metropolitan elite in Westminster is likely to carve up future budgets. I see from the Beeb the AMs are pondering the same question.
Over the whole country the surprise is that the deprived regions who were large scale net gainers voted out and yet the net contributors, particularly London and the SE, voted in.
But they have Taken Back Control. And they have Sovereignty. Stuck it to the Man good and proper.
Doesn't the natural follow on from being in control mean that you also foot your own bills?
There was some deluded Cornish farmer on the radio at lunchtime. Cornwall plus agriculture. Worried? Nah all rosy, sun is shining, the UK taxpayer will give them as much as they got before from the EU. Yeah, right.0 -
TheBigBean wrote:I think tactically the UK should not issue the article 50 until everything is agreed. Will be mighty unpopular with the rest of the EU, but will provide lots and lots of time to sort out various other trade deals.
What do you mean by 'everything'?0 -
Is anybody else worried about Boris? He looks like he has aged 10'years over the weekend and is claiming the pound and markets are stable.
It is like the sheer magnitude of what he has done has hit him between the eyes like a silver plated bullet. As he now wants free trade with the EU and free movement of labour he may even lead the Remain campaign in a new referendum.0 -
Surrey Commuter wrote:Is anybody else worried about Boris? He looks like he has aged 10'years over the weekend and is claiming the pound and markets are stable.
It is like the sheer magnitude of what he has done has hit him between the eyes like a silver plated bullet. As he now wants free trade with the EU and free movement of labour he may even lead the Remain campaign in a new referendum.
May will win the leadership election.
No-one votes for the assassin.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:TheBigBean wrote:I think tactically the UK should not issue the article 50 until everything is agreed. Will be mighty unpopular with the rest of the EU, but will provide lots and lots of time to sort out various other trade deals.
What do you mean by 'everything'?
As the referendum has no legal standing I guess there is no reason why you couldn't spend the next 50 years preparing for Brexit.
Only hope the other members sit idly by as we do so.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Surrey Commuter wrote:Is anybody else worried about Boris? He looks like he has aged 10'years over the weekend and is claiming the pound and markets are stable.
It is like the sheer magnitude of what he has done has hit him between the eyes like a silver plated bullet. As he now wants free trade with the EU and free movement of labour he may even lead the Remain campaign in a new referendum.
May will win the leadership election.
No-one votes for the assassin.
But why is he spouting such obvious nonsense? And reversed all Remains policies?0 -
You can do as much prep as you want, at some point if you want to enact the democratic will of the people you will have to speak to the EU, and the EU will only speak to you once you enact it.
Nations like the Netherlands (where there is a very strong anti EU contingent) and France (who are fighting off a very real prospect of a neo-fascist president) DO NOT want to show ordinary voters that leaving is anything but an apocalyptic option.0 -
Surrey Commuter wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Surrey Commuter wrote:Is anybody else worried about Boris? He looks like he has aged 10'years over the weekend and is claiming the pound and markets are stable.
It is like the sheer magnitude of what he has done has hit him between the eyes like a silver plated bullet. As he now wants free trade with the EU and free movement of labour he may even lead the Remain campaign in a new referendum.
May will win the leadership election.
No-one votes for the assassin.
But why is he spouting such obvious nonsense? And reversed all Remains policies?
Because he's made his success through bluster, lies, and avoiding the reality. He's a politician for the post-truth age, ala Trump. Only Bojo's shtick collapses when he has actual responsibility.0 -
I don't for one second imagine we'll get a GE. However, I do believe it's the only route out of this mess. Parties would need to split cleanly along lines of in and out. If a new government was formed on a clear remain agenda, that would at least have some legitimacy. The Conservatives simply staying in power and reneging on the referendum result isn't correct.
Unfortunately UKIP would become a party with very real presence in the commons but the alternative is that we have to leave. I think we've all now realised how silly that is.0 -
Yes, this whole thing is now looking like a jolly jape for a load of toffs who either don't know or don't care about anyone else who suffers for it. Every single EU voice hammering on the front door calling us out and lining up to say 'You ain't getting sh1t.' whilst Boris hides behind the sofa and Cameron is climbing out of the toilet window and shimming down the drainpipe. Insanity.0
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morstar wrote:I don't for one second imagine we'll get a GE. However, I do believe it's the only route out of this mess. Parties would need to split cleanly along lines of in and out. If a new government was formed on a clear remain agenda, that would at least have some legitimacy. The Conservatives simply staying in power and reneging on the referendum result isn't correct.
Unfortunately UKIP would become a party with very real presence in the commons but the alternative is that we have to leave. I think we've all now realised how silly that is.
They would have to pass a bill in Parliament though they would struggle to do that. If they did then the EU would probably count that as triggering A50 and the clock would be running.
I am sure the Leave camp has calculated the longest period of time they can dick around without harming our negotiation position.0 -
Just about the only leverage the dUK has now is that the EU has no legal way of imposing Article 50. I suspect they are now regretting leaving it so vague (probably thinking that it would never be used). I grant you it's holding the EU hostage, and it won't make the dUK any friends. I still think you're being generous in crediting Leave with a coherent plan, or anything approaching 'calculations'. I think their plans were identical with their referendum slogans.Surrey Commuter wrote:If they did then the EU would probably count that as triggering A50 and the clock would be running. I am sure the Leave camp has calculated the longest period of time they can dick around without harming our negotiation position.0 -
I wonder what would happen if Johnson and Gove came out and said "look, sorry, we've completely messed up here. We haven't got a plan and we haven't got a clue..."?0
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The thought had passed through my mind too.finchy wrote:I wonder what would happen if Johnson and Gove came out and said "look, sorry, we've completely messed up here. We haven't got a plan and we haven't got a clue..."?0 -
briantrumpet wrote:
The thought had passed through my mind too.finchy wrote:I wonder what would happen if Johnson and Gove came out and said "look, sorry, we've completely messed up here. We haven't got a plan and we haven't got a clue..."?
Would they do that though, in the national interest?0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:You can do as much prep as you want, at some point if you want to enact the democratic will of the people you will have to speak to the EU, and the EU will only speak to you once you enact it.
Nations like the Netherlands (where there is a very strong anti EU contingent) and France (who are fighting off a very real prospect of a neo-fascist president) DO NOT want to show ordinary voters that leaving is anything but an apocalyptic option.
The UK would be very foolish starting a ticking clock.
The EU will eventually realise it needs to agree something without a ticking clock in a orderly fashion. Refusing to talk will look very silly on an international level.
Meanwhile the UK can start tapping up other countries so that if the UK is still in Coventry after several years it will have a robust plan if it did choose to finally issue the section 50.0 -
Parties do need to split. The u.k is unstable partly because our parties are unstable and we have a winner takes all system. More parties would at least allow comprimise. The tories were nicer in coalition (just) well they held there tongue more.
Labour needs to split badly. Parties on the in/out line is not a bad thing. UKIP deserve a presence in parliament that may actually stunt there growth as with presence they will have to deliver something.
I think given the government have not invoked Art50, they are waiting for things to calm down a bit and after a new leader in place they might decide to shelve it, stating that invoking it will destroy the union. After all if scotland leaves on the new pm's watch that is there career over and then when NI goes that is the sucessors career over.
I wonder if next week there will be any applicants for leader of the tory party. That is why I think the next government will be a coalition as the blame gets spread, the lib dems found that out the hard way.
Normally we watch this sort of S*** happening in other countries now its our turn. Can the voters of east ruslip just vote for someone else next time. It's your fault.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0 -
finchy wrote:I wonder what would happen if Johnson and Gove came out and said "look, sorry, we've completely messed up here. We haven't got a plan and we haven't got a clue..."?
I'll win the Tour Giro double that year
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Well it looks like most of the UK has exited lol0
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This touches on something I was thinking of.TheBigBean wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:You can do as much prep as you want, at some point if you want to enact the democratic will of the people you will have to speak to the EU, and the EU will only speak to you once you enact it.
Nations like the Netherlands (where there is a very strong anti EU contingent) and France (who are fighting off a very real prospect of a neo-fascist president) DO NOT want to show ordinary voters that leaving is anything but an apocalyptic option.
The UK would be very foolish starting a ticking clock.
The EU will eventually realise it needs to agree something without a ticking clock in a orderly fashion. Refusing to talk will look very silly on an international level.
Meanwhile the UK can start tapping up other countries so that if the UK is still in Coventry after several years it will have a robust plan if it did choose to finally issue the section 50.
The EU must be very nervous about the risk of contagion, as one other decent sized leader would probably mean game over. They have to talk tough to discourage others from going down the referendum route, while trying for a quick divorce so they can 'make an examp,e of us'. The longer we leave it without triggering Article 50, the more likely it is that others will call referenda.
So we can crank up the pressure on the EU by delaying and they have no right to force us to set the clock ticking."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
bendertherobot wrote:We have loads of civil servants. And they can be deployed in all areas fairly rapidly. The trade agreements aren't hard per se. But the detail will be staggering. Also, doesn't matter how many we have, all the headline stuff will need to be done by a few. There's quite a lot of opportunity here for all sorts of civil servants to do a very good job and advance. Problem being, once this is all done, and we stop having to implement that "65%" of EU law, they might be twiddling their thumbs
The trade agreements aren't hard per se? Do what mate? Do a little research on TPP, the US and Pacific trade negotiations. Years long. And not yet ratified.
The only way they would be easy if one party, oh just for argument's sake say the UK, is weak and really needs the deal. Is called bend over and spread 'em.
And wait a minute. These loads of civil servants. Loads of unelected bureaucrats you mean surely? Isn't there something like 2 of them close to retirement left who have any skills. Or maybe just redeploy Bert from the Job Centre.
Now the footie is over... :? .. we can have more fun with this instead.0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
This touches on something I was thinking of.TheBigBean wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:You can do as much prep as you want, at some point if you want to enact the democratic will of the people you will have to speak to the EU, and the EU will only speak to you once you enact it.
Nations like the Netherlands (where there is a very strong anti EU contingent) and France (who are fighting off a very real prospect of a neo-fascist president) DO NOT want to show ordinary voters that leaving is anything but an apocalyptic option.
The UK would be very foolish starting a ticking clock.
The EU will eventually realise it needs to agree something without a ticking clock in a orderly fashion. Refusing to talk will look very silly on an international level.
Meanwhile the UK can start tapping up other countries so that if the UK is still in Coventry after several years it will have a robust plan if it did choose to finally issue the section 50.
The EU must be very nervous about the risk of contagion, as one other decent sized leader would probably mean game over. They have to talk tough to discourage others from going down the referendum route, while trying for a quick divorce so they can 'make an examp,e of us'. The longer we leave it without triggering Article 50, the more likely it is that others will call referenda.
So we can crank up the pressure on the EU by delaying and they have no right to force us to set the clock ticking.
Not really, they have the means and money to wait, we dont,
the tories are in danger of bring this country to its knees, in a way i would never have thought possible and they are the party who are apparently economically competent? jeez.
we need to scrap this vote and start again, the longer we delay this, the more likely we ll go into recession, more and more OUTS are starting to realise that the remain scare stories were not stories.0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
This touches on something I was thinking of.TheBigBean wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:You can do as much prep as you want, at some point if you want to enact the democratic will of the people you will have to speak to the EU, and the EU will only speak to you once you enact it.
Nations like the Netherlands (where there is a very strong anti EU contingent) and France (who are fighting off a very real prospect of a neo-fascist president) DO NOT want to show ordinary voters that leaving is anything but an apocalyptic option.
The UK would be very foolish starting a ticking clock.
The EU will eventually realise it needs to agree something without a ticking clock in a orderly fashion. Refusing to talk will look very silly on an international level.
Meanwhile the UK can start tapping up other countries so that if the UK is still in Coventry after several years it will have a robust plan if it did choose to finally issue the section 50.
The EU must be very nervous about the risk of contagion, as one other decent sized leader would probably mean game over. They have to talk tough to discourage others from going down the referendum route, while trying for a quick divorce so they can 'make an examp,e of us'. The longer we leave it without triggering Article 50, the more likely it is that others will call referenda.
So we can crank up the pressure on the EU by delaying and they have no right to force us to set the clock ticking.
If we leave it long enough the £350m a week may become a reality0 -
oStevo 666 wrote:
This touches on something I was thinking of.TheBigBean wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:You can do as much prep as you want, at some point if you want to enact the democratic will of the people you will have to speak to the EU, and the EU will only speak to you once you enact it.
Nations like the Netherlands (where there is a very strong anti EU contingent) and France (who are fighting off a very real prospect of a neo-fascist president) DO NOT want to show ordinary voters that leaving is anything but an apocalyptic option.
The UK would be very foolish starting a ticking clock.
The EU will eventually realise it needs to agree something without a ticking clock in a orderly fashion. Refusing to talk will look very silly on an international level.
Meanwhile the UK can start tapping up other countries so that if the UK is still in Coventry after several years it will have a robust plan if it did choose to finally issue the section 50.
The EU must be very nervous about the risk of contagion, as one other decent sized leader would probably mean game over. They have to talk tough to discourage others from going down the referendum route, while trying for a quick divorce so they can 'make an examp,e of us'. The longer we leave it without triggering Article 50, the more likely it is that others will call referenda.
So we can crank up the pressure on the EU by delaying and they have no right to force us to set the clock ticking.
I think that too, the Dutch already have the opposition party promising a referendum if they win this years election. A lot of French people think it would be out if they had a referendum too, easy to see Denmark going that way.
Cameron was pushing at an open door for reform, he should have worked on building alliances, not been so allow and relying on luck.. It is a screw up by Europe too though in not listening, I am not sure if they are listening now though.
However, would reform have made a difference in a vote, I am not sure.0 -
You miss the point. If another major EU member heads for the door, it's game over for the EU in its current form. While the UK saga drags on, this scenario vecomes more likely. Why do you think they are pushing for a quick split?Lookyhere wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
This touches on something I was thinking of.TheBigBean wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:You can do as much prep as you want, at some point if you want to enact the democratic will of the people you will have to speak to the EU, and the EU will only speak to you once you enact it.
Nations like the Netherlands (where there is a very strong anti EU contingent) and France (who are fighting off a very real prospect of a neo-fascist president) DO NOT want to show ordinary voters that leaving is anything but an apocalyptic option.
The UK would be very foolish starting a ticking clock.
The EU will eventually realise it needs to agree something without a ticking clock in a orderly fashion. Refusing to talk will look very silly on an international level.
Meanwhile the UK can start tapping up other countries so that if the UK is still in Coventry after several years it will have a robust plan if it did choose to finally issue the section 50.
The EU must be very nervous about the risk of contagion, as one other decent sized leader would probably mean game over. They have to talk tough to discourage others from going down the referendum route, while trying for a quick divorce so they can 'make an examp,e of us'. The longer we leave it without triggering Article 50, the more likely it is that others will call referenda.
So we can crank up the pressure on the EU by delaying and they have no right to force us to set the clock ticking.
Not really, they have the means and money to wait, we dont,
the tories are in danger of bring this country to its knees, in a way i would never have thought possible and they are the party who are apparently economically competent? jeez.
we need to scrap this vote and start again, the longer we delay this, the more likely we ll go into recession, more and more OUTS are starting to realise that the remain scare stories were not stories.
In the end this may be beneficial. The EU has no plan B. It will never voluntarily revert to what many in the UK want it to be - a free trade zone. The only way that will happen is if the EU in its current form collapses. It will be painful but in the long run, better. So it would be acting in the national interest to encourage that. A lot of Europeans don't realise it but we would be doing them a favour."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Britain's been predicted to enter recession this year.
The £ has collapsed.
Our political parties are in disarray.
Our credit ratings have been cut.
At the moment, I'd say it's highly unlikely that other countries will want to follow us.0 -
The drivers for wanting to leave do not necessarily take into account economics or business. The fact remains that there is significant pressure for referenda in certain EU countries.finchy wrote:Britain's been predicted to enter recession this year.
The £ has collapsed.
Our political parties are in disarray.
Our credit ratings have been cut.
At the moment, I'd say it's highly unlikely that other countries will want to follow us.
Recession remains to be seen. Sterling was below 1.10 to the Euro back in 2008/9 so hardly uncharted territory."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
