BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

cycleclinic

At least we know we are important with the shock it has caused.

Garry H

thecycleclinic wrote:

At least we know we are important with the shock it has caused.

Hear,hear. Team GB, giving Johnny foreigner what for!

Lookyhere

Stevo 666 wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

Not really, they have the means and money to wait, we dont,

the tories are in danger of bring this country to its knees, in a way i would never have thought possible and they are the party who are apparently economically competent? jeez.

we need to scrap this vote and start again, the longer we delay this, the more likely we ll go into recession, more and more OUTS are starting to realise that the remain scare stories were not stories.

You miss the point. If another major EU member heads for the door, it's game over for the EU in its current form. While the UK saga drags on, this scenario vecomes more likely. Why do you think they are pushing for a quick split?

In the end this may be beneficial. The EU has no plan B. It will never voluntarily revert to what many in the UK want it to be - a free trade zone. The only way that will happen is if the EU in its current form collapses. It will be painful but in the long run, better. So it would be acting in the national interest to encourage that. A lot of Europeans don't realise it but we would be doing them a favour.

This isnt like fooling around with a labour party leadership election Steve, trying to destabilise mainland europe would be a very stupid thing to do and it isnt why the Tories are delaying article 50, they have no idea what to do and no one least of all that former Remainer Boris wants to trigger it.

Aside from Farage, all the Outers have back pedalled over Brexit and now seem to want a version of our relationship which is very similar as what we ve already got!

its no longer about the EU anymore, we have not even began to talk about leaving and look what is happening to FTSE and currency, longer period of uncertainty is going to make matters far worse - but as i said we need to scrap the brexit vote and start again and i predict, like i did that Brexit will win, that we will, in the end, be forced to do this, the whole country are going see real costs and will demand it.

S&P have just stripped us of our AAA rating, a rating we've held since 1978..... Cameron should be taken to the Tower and charged with treason for what hs has gone and done.

veronese68

Bobbinogs wrote:

The crap we are in is about not managing Leave, not Leave itself.

No, the crap we are in is what we were told would happen if we voted to leave. We are in this crap because just over half the people voted for it.

Lookyhere

Veronese68 wrote:

Bobbinogs wrote:

The crap we are in is about not managing Leave, not Leave itself.

No, the crap we are in is what we were told would happen if we voted to leave. We are in this crap because just over half the people voted for it.

nah it is about time some serious questions were put to this Government over why, knowing the very real dangers of Brexit, they went ahead with a vote just so they could win a GE.

bramstoker

Veronese68 wrote:

Bobbinogs wrote:

The crap we are in is about not managing Leave, not Leave itself.

No, the crap we are in is what we were told would happen if we voted to leave. We are in this crap because just over half the people voted for it.

Could be said about every General Election we have had, except usually the turnout is less.

ballysmate

Lookyhere wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

Not really, they have the means and money to wait, we dont,

the tories are in danger of bring this country to its knees, in a way i would never have thought possible and they are the party who are apparently economically competent? jeez.

we need to scrap this vote and start again, the longer we delay this, the more likely we ll go into recession, more and more OUTS are starting to realise that the remain scare stories were not stories.

You miss the point. If another major EU member heads for the door, it's game over for the EU in its current form. While the UK saga drags on, this scenario vecomes more likely. Why do you think they are pushing for a quick split?

In the end this may be beneficial. The EU has no plan B. It will never voluntarily revert to what many in the UK want it to be - a free trade zone. The only way that will happen is if the EU in its current form collapses. It will be painful but in the long run, better. So it would be acting in the national interest to encourage that. A lot of Europeans don't realise it but we would be doing them a favour.

This isnt like fooling around with a labour party leadership election Steve, trying to destabilise mainland europe would be a very stupid thing to do and it isnt why the Tories are delaying article 50, they have no idea what to do and no one least of all that former Remainer Boris wants to trigger it.

Aside from Farage, all the Outers have back pedalled over Brexit and now seem to want a version of our relationship which is very similar as what we ve already got!

its no longer about the EU anymore, we have not even began to talk about leaving and look what is happening to FTSE and currency, longer period of uncertainty is going to make matters far worse - but as i said we need to scrap the brexit vote and start again and i predict, like i did that Brexit will win, that we will, in the end, be forced to do this, the whole country are going see real costs and will demand it.

S&P have just stripped us of our AAA rating, a rating we've held since 1978..... Cameron should be taken to the Tower and charged with treason for what hs has gone and done.

EU democracy in action, eh? Just like Ireland who had to keep voting on the Euro til they eventually bent to the EU's will.

ballysmate

I voted in although not with much enthusiasm. People across Europe are becoming more Eurosceptic because they don't share the dream of a Federal Europe.

pblakeney

4kicks wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

My analogy of the status of the Country. We are on the Titanic after the iceberg has been hit.
The captain has abandoned and we are looking for a new captain to go down with the ship.

Actually we are trying to decide the seating arrangements at dinner.

That's what the officers are doing.
We are looking for a captain. Nobody is stepping forward and I cannot see anyone up for the job.

Lookyhere

Ballysmate wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

Not really, they have the means and money to wait, we dont,

the tories are in danger of bring this country to its knees, in a way i would never have thought possible and they are the party who are apparently economically competent? jeez.

we need to scrap this vote and start again, the longer we delay this, the more likely we ll go into recession, more and more OUTS are starting to realise that the remain scare stories were not stories.

You miss the point. If another major EU member heads for the door, it's game over for the EU in its current form. While the UK saga drags on, this scenario vecomes more likely. Why do you think they are pushing for a quick split?

In the end this may be beneficial. The EU has no plan B. It will never voluntarily revert to what many in the UK want it to be - a free trade zone. The only way that will happen is if the EU in its current form collapses. It will be painful but in the long run, better. So it would be acting in the national interest to encourage that. A lot of Europeans don't realise it but we would be doing them a favour.

This isnt like fooling around with a labour party leadership election Steve, trying to destabilise mainland europe would be a very stupid thing to do and it isnt why the Tories are delaying article 50, they have no idea what to do and no one least of all that former Remainer Boris wants to trigger it.

Aside from Farage, all the Outers have back pedalled over Brexit and now seem to want a version of our relationship which is very similar as what we ve already got!

its no longer about the EU anymore, we have not even began to talk about leaving and look what is happening to FTSE and currency, longer period of uncertainty is going to make matters far worse - but as i said we need to scrap the brexit vote and start again and i predict, like i did that Brexit will win, that we will, in the end, be forced to do this, the whole country are going see real costs and will demand it.

S&P have just stripped us of our AAA rating, a rating we've held since 1978..... Cameron should be taken to the Tower and charged with treason for what hs has gone and done.

EU democracy in action, eh? Just like Ireland who had to keep voting on the Euro til they eventually bent to the EU's will.

i am no longer interested in the EU, its our democracy, not theirs, we ve fcuked up, in life shitte happens and when it does, sometimes you have to have the humility to admit your wrong and go back, this is one of those moments, no good sticking to the god of democracy if we end up like like Greece - both sides lied and leaves made promises that they knew full well were wrong, in any other walk of life, that would be fraud and you d get your money back.....

ballysmate

Have we fcuked up? It's been 4 days since the referendum. Neither of us has a crystal ball.

finchy

There are posts on here about Euroscepticism in other countries and how that might strengthen our hand in negotiations with the EU. A "Frexit" is one which is often mentioned, but a quick search for opinion polls shows that the most recent one found 64% of French people wanting to remain in the EU. Although this is a decrease on previous polls, it doesn't really indicate a nation desperately scratching at the door. In April of this year it was 66% wanting to remain in the EU. Just because people want a referendum does not mean they want to leave.

I don't speak any other western European languages well enough to do similar research, but maybe some of CS's other polyglots could have a go?

finchy

"Ballysmate wrote:

EU democracy in action, eh? Just like Ireland who had to keep voting on the Euro til they eventually bent to the EU's will.

That's not the same thing at all. I think it's suddenly become very apparent to a lot of people in Britain that the leave campaign were making promises knowing that they knew they either couldn't keep or couldn't guarantee. They haven't even come up with a coherent plan. They clearly weren't expecting to win this and have sold the Brexit on a false premise. I don't know what the solution is, maybe a GE to allow parties to stand on a pro-remain platform if they so wish, to allow the public to give the government a democratic mandate to stay in the EU.

Bo Duke

What baffles me is why so many people fail to see past tabloid headlines? How many times do you have to type 'we've fcuked up' before you think the problem might go away? Or 'we need another referendum to reverse the last one' before you understand that no parliamentary democracy would ever allow it, or what does it say about the state of politics that the leader of the opposition voted to leave the EU? Even Salmond confirmed that Sturgeon was talking through her ar$e saying the Scottish parliament could block the exit.

Big Dave put on another good performance at PM's question time yesterday, let's hope he can quickly return. His quip about the new labour MP swearing in should keep her mobile switched on as she might be a member of the shadow cabinet by the end of the day was pure magic and firmly put to bed any fear he or the party were not confidently getting on with the job. His performance was of a man in control, tasked to steer a ship through choppy waters - that professionalism will, I am sure, continue under a new leader.

By the way, as the Euro zone continues to suffer propping up the Euro and banks across the zone in the coming months and years as the economic recession gathers pace, lets thank god we won't get a call to help safe a Spanish bank, or the Greeks or support the Euro to the tune of a few hundred billion.

The EU remains committed to a single currency across 27 nations..... on that point alone we might thank our lucky stars in the future that we only have to protect one central bank, one currency and one set of well (now) regulated banks.

Cheer up for heavens sake.

Bo Duke

Just been sent this, seems to be some food for thought.


"A short list of financial and industrial FUBARs from the EU...

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.

Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.

Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers’ pension funds.

Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.

British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.

Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.

Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.

M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.

Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with EU grants.

Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.

Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.

Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.

Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.

ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs.

Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.

JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.

UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.

Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.

Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.

The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.

Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.

39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU.

The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK.

The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK.

We used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.

I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't.

Still want to stay? Well it must be some consolation that you have Cameron to negotiate in Europe on your behalf.

And of course, the real deal-breaker .... Democracy, transparency and independence. We can vote out our MPs - BUT the European Commission who dictate 55% of UK laws, which are legally binding, are ..... guess what, untouchable, unelected and hidden from view."

morstar

Not going to fact check that lot but as a starter for 10. 'Some' airports are owned by Spanish companies. That is global trade my friend, not and eu decision.
Raleigh haven't made bikes in UK for many years. That is symptomatic of a UK decline in manufacturing.
It appears the authors main issue is the decline of UK manufacturing. A domestic issue rather than an Eu one as Germany is a successful manufacturing nation. A uk focus on financial services appears to be your main concern. One I too, as a remainer, completely share.

Bo Duke

Well if we take whatever money we save by not paying into the EU and pump it into manufacturing development, I for one will be very happy. We have to have a stronger manufacturing sector.

bompington

It appears that there is still at least one person who hasn't yet realised that THERE WILL BE NO EXTRA MONEY THAT WE SAVE BY LEAVING THE EU

Bo Duke

I hope not, all monies should be invested in our economy.

surrey_commuter

Stevo 666 wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

You can do as much prep as you want, at some point if you want to enact the democratic will of the people you will have to speak to the EU, and the EU will only speak to you once you enact it.

Nations like the Netherlands (where there is a very strong anti EU contingent) and France (who are fighting off a very real prospect of a neo-fascist president) DO NOT want to show ordinary voters that leaving is anything but an apocalyptic option.

The UK would be very foolish starting a ticking clock.

The EU will eventually realise it needs to agree something without a ticking clock in a orderly fashion. Refusing to talk will look very silly on an international level.

Meanwhile the UK can start tapping up other countries so that if the UK is still in Coventry after several years it will have a robust plan if it did choose to finally issue the section 50.

This touches on something I was thinking of.

The EU must be very nervous about the risk of contagion, as one other decent sized leader would probably mean game over. They have to talk tough to discourage others from going down the referendum route, while trying for a quick divorce so they can 'make an examp,e of us'. The longer we leave it without triggering Article 50, the more likely it is that others will call referenda.

So we can crank up the pressure on the EU by delaying and they have no right to force us to set the clock ticking.

Not really, they have the means and money to wait, we dont,

the tories are in danger of bring this country to its knees, in a way i would never have thought possible and they are the party who are apparently economically competent? jeez.

we need to scrap this vote and start again, the longer we delay this, the more likely we ll go into recession, more and more OUTS are starting to realise that the remain scare stories were not stories.

You miss the point. If another major EU member heads for the door, it's game over for the EU in its current form. While the UK saga drags on, this scenario vecomes more likely. Why do you think they are pushing for a quick split?

In the end this may be beneficial. The EU has no plan B. It will never voluntarily revert to what many in the UK want it to be - a free trade zone. The only way that will happen is if the EU in its current form collapses. It will be painful but in the long run, better. So it would be acting in the national interest to encourage that. A lot of Europeans don't realise it but we would be doing them a favour.

I think they want a quick split to end the uncertainty. We are going down the plug hole so rapidly nobody in their right mind would follow us.

It seems to me the EU are pulling all the levers, why did our Commissioner quit (why does nobody care) and the Tories just halved the length of their leadership contest.

surrey_commuter

Bo Duke wrote:

I hope not, all monies should be invested in our economy.

I can't even work out if you are joking... But I will play the patsy.

The last 6 months has already cost us our £8bn a year contribution many times over - and I can not see why it will not get worse.

Most of the things on your list have nothing to do with the EU and once again demonstrates why the British electorate were not qualified to make this decision.

Cameron should be in the tower not making unfunny "quips". These clowns gave the keys of the bus to an angry mob and then directed them over the edge of a cliff. Four days later they are back navel gazing.

surrey_commuter

Bo Duke wrote:

I hope not, all monies should be invested in our economy.

I have some very bad news. - we had a big vote last week in which it was decided the economy came a distant second to the Spooners getting their country back.

Since then the Govt (think taxpayer) will have lost tens of billions defending the pound in the foreign exchange markets and through our bank shareholdings.

Unofficial stats are showing investment is grinding to a halt and anecdotal evidence supports this. Official stats will show the economy in recession and unemployment rising. This will knock a big hole (£30bn) in the govts finances that will need filling - this will look like Osbornes "punishment budget"

This is what is known as short-term economic pain... Remember this is the bit that lasts 14 years

No amount of pulling together, strong leadership and being positive will change any of the above.

surrey_commuter

Ballysmate wrote:

Have we fcuked up? It's been 4 days since the referendum. Neither of us has a crystal ball.

Yes we have. The experts got this bit right so go back and see what would happen next.

veronese68

Bo Duke wrote:

I hope not, all monies should be invested in our economy.

You obviously have failed to grasp that we have lost significantly more money than we pay to the EU. There is no money to save.

vimfuego

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Have we fcuked up? It's been 4 days since the referendum. Neither of us has a crystal ball.

Yes we have. The experts got this bit right so go back and see what would happen next.

Indeed. I'd suggest that we reconvene in a month and see just how bad things have got, but I suspect the leave camp will still be in denial even if the pound resembled the old Zimbabwean Dollar at that point.

mr_goo

Bo Duke wrote:

Just been sent this, seems to be some food for thought.


"A short list of financial and industrial FUBARs from the EU...

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.

Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.

Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers’ pension funds.

Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.

British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.

Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.

Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.

M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.

Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with EU grants.

Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.

Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.

Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.

Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.

ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs.

Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.

JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.

UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.

Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.

Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.

The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.

Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.

39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU.

The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK.

The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK.

We used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.

I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't.

Still want to stay? Well it must be some consolation that you have Cameron to negotiate in Europe on your behalf.

And of course, the real deal-breaker .... Democracy, transparency and independence. We can vote out our MPs - BUT the European Commission who dictate 55% of UK laws, which are legally binding, are ..... guess what, untouchable, unelected and hidden from view."

Interesting facts Bo.
Most on here will simply dismiss this as Daily Mail tripe because many of them work in sectors allied to the banks and financial institutions so nothing else counts. Some on here who shall remain nameless think it's best to kill off 'legacy industries'. Stupid comment really as finance and banking are older than most of the industries they were referring to.

What the Remain campaign failed to grasp was that this referendum for many was about democracy and being abandoned by Westminster and in turn Brussels. Many of those that voted to Leave have seen their communities devastated by the closure of industry over the last 3-4 decades and much finger pointing for this is directed at the EU. But what does it matter to those in London, it's all about a good performing portfolio and a succession of migrant cheap labour to serve fancy coffee and avocado & chorizo wraps.

And now the call to overturn democracy because the secondary school educated, council house living, football supporting, benefit claiming, shell suit wearing, Lidl shopping proletariat dared to speak out against those who know better. For them it doesn't matter if the UK is the 6th largest economy, 16th or 66th.
In a way it could be perceived as a mini revolution. The lower to middle class against the controlling and lying of the detached, political elite.

Better in the long run to have self determination even if it is painful for a period of time.

bendertherobot

http://ilovetheeu.co.uk/trade/no-the-eu ... of-the-uk/

Funny thing are corporations.

Anyway, good listen to Jonathan Evans on BBC Wales (Radio) this morning. He's the Chairman of the Welsh Conservative Party and, of course, one of those who will be eligible to vote and, crucially, select.

In essence the two person selection will be done by 22nd July and the vote by 2nd September. You cannot vote unless you're already a member, they have a 3 month rule. Tidy. Doesn't mean that they saw this coming (it's been in place for a while) but, and this is important, the choice of 2nd September instead of party conference makes all the difference to new members.

He voted remain. He's quite clear that he (and it seems all the selectors) will want a PM with a clear vision of how to proceed and, in his view, that should be membership of the EEA and the Common Market. That's his minimum position and one shared by very many of his colleagues. On top of that he said he would Counsel any candidate who had "had their picture taken in front of the bus" that, whilst it was not a manifesto, it should be respected.

We live in interesting times. Essentially the Conservative power machine have all the cards to be able to install someone who will take us out of Europe but keep us in. Even Boris, it seems, wants to do just that. And we will get that NHS promise. Plus all the other stuff that has to be funded. It may also be that our economy weathers this and we can pay for most of it. But I do think that tax rises are pretty much inevitable.

rolf_f

Mr Goo wrote:

Interesting facts Bo.

More irrelevant misrepresentation than facts.

surrey_commuter

Mr Goo wrote:

Bo Duke wrote:

Just been sent this, seems to be some food for thought.


"A short list of financial and industrial FUBARs from the EU...

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.

Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.

Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers’ pension funds.

Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.

British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.

Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.

Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.

M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.

Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with EU grants.

Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.

Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.

Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.

Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.

ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs.

Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.

JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.

UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.

Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.

Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.

The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.

Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.

39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU.

The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK.

The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK.

We used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.

I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't.

Still want to stay? Well it must be some consolation that you have Cameron to negotiate in Europe on your behalf.

And of course, the real deal-breaker .... Democracy, transparency and independence. We can vote out our MPs - BUT the European Commission who dictate 55% of UK laws, which are legally binding, are ..... guess what, untouchable, unelected and hidden from view."

Interesting facts Bo.
Most on here will simply dismiss this as Daily Mail tripe because many of them work in sectors allied to the banks and financial institutions so nothing else counts. Some on here who shall remain nameless think it's best to kill off 'legacy industries'. Stupid comment really as finance and banking are older than most of the industries they were referring to.

What the Remain campaign failed to grasp was that this referendum for many was about democracy and being abandoned by Westminster and in turn Brussels. Many of those that voted to Leave have seen their communities devastated by the closure of industry over the last 3-4 decades and much finger pointing for this is directed at the EU. But what does it matter to those in London, it's all about a good performing portfolio and a succession of migrant cheap labour to serve fancy coffee and avocado & chorizo wraps.

And now the call to overturn democracy because the secondary school educated, council house living, football supporting, benefit claiming, shell suit wearing, Lidl shopping proletariat dared to speak out against those who know better. For them it doesn't matter if the UK is the 6th largest economy, 16th or 66th.
In a way it could be perceived as a mini revolution. The lower to middle class against the controlling and lying of the detached, political elite.

Better in the long run to have self determination even if it is painful for a period of time.

Name me if you want - but don't misquote me. I don't believe in supporting failing industries as I believe the money could be better spent.

Now tell me what this has got to do with the EU
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.

I am assuming the rest is a made up jingoistic list of crap

Also what do you mean by self-determination?

bobmcstuff

Hunt also proposing a Norway style relationship, only with some controls on migration - don't see that flying.

Osborne this morning basically said "I told you so" but not in as many words.