BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

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  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,969
    Lookyhere wrote:
    tbh i d prefer a tory gov for the next 5 years on a pro IN ticket than what will happen if we carry-on this path to destruction, i never thought i d ever say that!
    Quoted for posterity :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,445
    Lookyhere wrote:

    to me the answer is simple, revoke the referendum vote, on the basis it is not in the national interest and call a GE, any party that then wants to continue with this madness can then stuff it in their manifesto and we can elect a new Government based on what we know will happen.

    I don't think anyone needs to be hasty in revoking anything.

    We need a GE anyway IMO because none of the currently elected MPs or parties has any manifesto mandate for leading us through the negotiations and what they think the future relationship looks like. We need some common vision on what this is going to be and a mandate for it to happen.

    Parties would then be forced to put together an actual plan and get behind it rather than the ad-hoc personal opinions we seem to be getting from the various politicians at the moment - it is clear that none of the parties has got a plan or a party line even.

    It isn't unlikely that one of the parties would go for an anti Brexit line (Lib Dems have already said they will do so), let's see how they do.
  • florerider
    florerider Posts: 1,112
    Lookyhere wrote:
    tbh i d prefer a tory gov for the next 5 years on a pro IN ticket than what will happen if we carry-on this path to destruction, i never thought i d ever say that!


    funnily enough that was Cameron's ticket for election only a year ago.
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    Veronese68 wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Did I miss the referendum where we opted out of having a sense of humour or is part of our exit deal that we had to pass our sense of humour over to the Germans?
    They are so busy fending off the flack for getting us into the almighty shitstorm and justifying their votes that they can't cope with humour as well. I'm sure they will blame others for us getting into this mess but lets be perfectly clear it's down to the 52% of voters that agreed to it as much as it's down to the self serving fucknuggets that headed up the leave campaign.

    Yep. It'll go something like this:

    1) Loads of experts say that Brexit will lead to massive economic problems
    2) Brexit happens
    3) Massive economic problems happen
    4) Leavers say that remainers are to blame for talking the country into a recession
    5) After x years, the people of Britain can feel no improvement whatsoever to their lives as a result of Brexit
    6) Leavers will STILL be telling us how good it is to be free, without saying what it actually is that they are now free to do that they weren't before 23/6/2016

    There you go, that's Finchy's set of long-term predictions.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,445
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36647948

    Hunt suggesting we will have either a referendum or a GE to decide on the terms of the exit deal (as I suggested we needed - at risk of agreeing with Jeremy *unt...)
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    You may be interested in this.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... act-europe
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Lookyhere wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    Coopster - can you please, please, please try using this forum to refute, rather than confirm, the view that Leavers aren't all that clever?

    I called SC out for ageism. In the same way anyone would be called out for racism or xenophobia if a post was made with that view. Why are we rightfully, active in denouncing one but are happy to let the other keep being pushed, with no-one calling it out?

    Explain why the middle income earner should solely bare the brunt of tax rises, spending cuts, seeing THEIR hard earned company pensions reduce in value whilst the pension triple lock, winter fuel, bus passes and social benefits remain untouched?

    We were told VERY clearly the dangers of voting out but people like you and 'Goo, held to a dream of Spitfires and a warm pint around the village green, whilst the all english and white cricket team bang out a few runs.

    to me the answer is simple, revoke the referendum vote, on the basis it is not in the national interest and call a GE, any party that then wants to continue with this madness can then stuff it in their manifesto and we can elect a new Government based on what we know will happen.

    tbh i d prefer a tory gov for the next 5 years on a pro IN ticket than what will happen if we carry-on this path to destruction, i never thought i d ever say that!


    There's only what's in the kitty. When income goes down things will have to be cut, or income will have to be increased. Coupled with food and utility imports costing more because of a weak pound...

    It isn't rocket science, although 52.9% of people clearly think it is.
  • verylonglegs
    verylonglegs Posts: 4,023
    I've just seen some of Farages performance today at the European Parliament, the man is a total d1ckhead burning goodwill at a prodigious rate with his gloating.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,295
    Joelsim wrote:
    You may be interested in this.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... act-europe

    I'll see what Zac Goldsmith says about it. He's said that he didn't want a win for Remain because "it hands democratic decision making to people over whom we have virtually no control". So I'm sure he'll follow the expressed wishes of his constituents.....
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,895
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:
    You may be interested in this.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... act-europe

    I'll see what Zac Goldsmith says about it. He's said that he didn't want a win for Remain because "it hands democratic decision making to people over whom we have virtually no control". So I'm sure he'll follow the expressed wishes of his constituents.....
    Same here. I read that and thought Zac won't do the right thing.
    Kinesis Pro6
    Marin Nail Trail
    Cotic Solaris
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:
    You may be interested in this.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... act-europe

    I'll see what Zac Goldsmith says about it. He's said that he didn't want a win for Remain because "it hands democratic decision making to people over whom we have virtually no control". So I'm sure he'll follow the expressed wishes of his constituents.....

    Unlikely that many will. Hopefully they'll all vote as they see fit as I gather it's 70/30 Remain.
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    And of course it's asking people to write so Farage will need to organise some adult learning classes for his voters pretty damn quickly.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,295
    Joelsim wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:
    You may be interested in this.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... act-europe

    I'll see what Zac Goldsmith says about it. He's said that he didn't want a win for Remain because "it hands democratic decision making to people over whom we have virtually no control". So I'm sure he'll follow the expressed wishes of his constituents.....

    Unlikely that many will. Hopefully they'll all vote as they see fit as I gather it's 70/30 Remain.

    Someone else has already asked him. He says no, because he was selected and elected as a Eurosceptic, and "a clear majority - in a very large turnout" want to leave. My quotes as that bit's bollocks.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,686
    verylonglegs wrote:
    I've just seen some of Farages performance today at the European Parliament, the man is a total d1ckhead burning goodwill at a prodigious rate with his gloating.

    Why is he even getting involved? Surely it's now a job for the UK parliament to discuss with the EU and the last time I checked UKIP only had one elected representative.
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,300
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Farage is pulling no punches: "I know none of you have ever done a proper job in your lives"

    They didn't have to work their way up from the slums of Dulwich college through the physical toil of commodities trading to get there.

    Not trading, that means risking one's own money by betting you are smarter than the rest of the market, but broking, where you can play free of personal risk with other people's money and take a free ride commission. Proper job. And a model for his future "career" as well.

    Met 2 different young Leavers today, both going WTF have we done, we made a mistake. Cretins. What did you think you were voting for?
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,300
    Listened to a USanian podcast from the Motley Fool aimed at amateur investors. The first section is a lengthy analysis of Brexit from a purely external US perspective, trying to explain the situation to their non expert listeners. You can hear the bemusement in their discussions.

    http://www.fool.com/podcasts/industry-f ... -bregret-a
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,445
    "Finally we are going to get rid of the biggest waste in the EU budget, which we have paid for 17 years - your salary!" - Guy Verhofstadt (Belgian MEP and ex-Prime Minister) to Nigel Farage.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,969
    I posted this in the other thread but relevant in this one:

    Here is how one scenario could play out and I think many in Labour have twigged that this is their best shot at power - this assumes that ratifying the referendum result and triggering article 50 of the Lisbon treaty needs to be done by a vote in parliament:
    - Breakaway New Labour group formed on a clear anti-BREXIT mandate
    - Vote to ratify in parliament is opposed by 'New' Labour, probably a fair bit of the old rump Labour, Lib Dems and possibly the majority of the Tory MPS and so fails to be passed.
    - Government probably has no choice but to call a general election
    - New Labour, Old Labour, Lib Dems stand on an anti-BREXIT ticket.
    - Tory party may also splinter at this point with anti-BREXIT tories breaking away?
    - GE is fought essentially on a single issue.

    Effectively the electorate get a second referendum on BREXIT, dressed up as a general election....
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • gaffer_slow
    gaffer_slow Posts: 417
    You guys all realise that Article 50 will never be triggered .... right?
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,969
    gaffer_slow wrote:
    You guys all realise that Article 50 will never be triggered .... right?
    Possibly - see my post above for a possible scenario.

    Why do you say never rather than possibly not?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,300
    gaffer_slow wrote:
    You guys all realise that Article 50 will never be triggered .... right?
    Is what the markets are thinking, with the FTSE 250 coming back up a bit(3.5%) today, leaving it just 9% down since the news.

    To make clear, FTSE250 is more reflective of native UK companies, whereas FTSE100 includes global megacorps, big oil, big pharma, miners and that, who have loads of irons in fire other than the UK.
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,300
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    "Finally we are going to get rid of the biggest waste in the EU budget, which we have paid for 17 years - your salary!" - Guy Verhofstadt (Belgian MEP and ex-Prime Minister) to Nigel Farage.
    Hat.
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 16,017
    Been away for a while and am now catching up and skimming through some of the posts which are coming thick and fast.
    People calling for a second vote? ?? If that goes the other way do we have to go for the best of 3? There was a vote and the result stands, like it or not.
    The markets have been in turmoil? well that was expected wasn't it? Somebody suggested returning to the issue in 4 weeks and voting again.The vote was about the future of the country and not how many Euros you get to the pound for your hols.
    Some posters still don't get how much a lot of voters here and in Europe are sick of the EU, same as the the EU leaders ignoring the mood of the people. If they had not pressed on for more financial and political union, there would not be the same appetite to leave.
    Sturgeon maintaining that Scotland voted to remain and so could block Brexit doesn't stand scrutiny. The vote was a UK wide vote and not a local one. If Scotland had voted for Indy 2 years ago, would the Shetlands have been able to block it if they had voted to stay with the UK - of course not.
    Unpopular as it may be with some on here, the result is what it is and should stand.
  • bramstoker
    bramstoker Posts: 250
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    I posted this in the other thread but relevant in this one:

    Here is how one scenario could play out and I think many in Labour have twigged that this is their best shot at power - this assumes that ratifying the referendum result and triggering article 50 of the Lisbon treaty needs to be done by a vote in parliament:
    - Breakaway New Labour group formed on a clear anti-BREXIT mandate
    - Vote to ratify in parliament is opposed by 'New' Labour, probably a fair bit of the old rump Labour, Lib Dems and possibly the majority of the Tory MPS and so fails to be passed.
    - Government probably has no choice but to call a general election
    - New Labour, Old Labour, Lib Dems stand on an anti-BREXIT ticket.
    - Tory party may also splinter at this point with anti-BREXIT tories breaking away?
    - GE is fought essentially on a single issue.

    Effectively the electorate get a second referendum on BREXIT, dressed up as a general election....

    So a referendum with 70% turnout could be overturned by a GE that could have a turnout of less than 50%. And people wonder why the population is so untrusting of politics.
    A feather is kinky, a whole chicken is just perverse.
  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    I do wonder what Industry is making of it all. The CEO's must be pulling some strings down at the club. It'll be suicide for setting up business outside of the EU in foreigner hating Britain. We'll get no investment from any multinationals.
    Existing ones will be looking to expand outside rather than in the UK and we'll die a death.

    Money always talks loudest and the Tories (or ANY parties) won't be getting any funds from anyone other than JCB (dunno what his plan is) or Dyson (buy British ! And I've sacked my workforce and the hoovers are made in Malaysia - that's 4000 jobs that could have been in Britain)
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    JoeNobody wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    We are all against racism but some here are happy to support ageism via means of financial punishment without being rebuked :roll:
    I don't think anyone, SC included, supports that. It was pretty clear it was a tongue in cheek remark. Of course, I may be wrong, and I'd be happy for SC to correct me if I am.

    Sorry chaps have been offline but yes I can confirm it was tongue in cheek. To clarify further I believe it to be a real possibility but it won't even touch the sides of a possible £30bn deficit. We are all going to pay for this for years ahead through taxes and cuts.

    My other proposals include a special tax on every copy of the Daily Express and Mail
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 16,017
    Further to the above, if there were to be a second vote, the concessions gained by Cameron are now off the table so you would be asking Brexiters to vote on something even less palatable to them than the offer put forward at this referendum. How d'ya think that would go down?
  • bramstoker
    bramstoker Posts: 250
    Surrey Commuter wrote:

    Sorry chaps have been offline but yes I can confirm it was tongue in cheek. To clarify further I believe it to be a real possibility but it won't even touch the sides of a possible £30bn deficit. We are all going to pay for this for years ahead through taxes and cuts.

    My other proposals include a special tax on every copy of the Daily Express and Mail

    Maybe you'll change your mind when the EU make Spokey Dokeys mandatary.
    A feather is kinky, a whole chicken is just perverse.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    bramstoker wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:

    Sorry chaps have been offline but yes I can confirm it was tongue in cheek. To clarify further I believe it to be a real possibility but it won't even touch the sides of a possible £30bn deficit. We are all going to pay for this for years ahead through taxes and cuts.

    My other proposals include a special tax on every copy of the Daily Express and Mail

    Maybe you'll change your mind when the EU make Spokey Dokeys mandatary.

    My bike is currently bent in half so not my problem - maybe they would have syed me from a vicious right hook
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 16,017
    orraloon wrote:
    gaffer_slow wrote:
    You guys all realise that Article 50 will never be triggered .... right?
    Is what the markets are thinking, with the FTSE 250 coming back up a bit(3.5%) today, leaving it just 9% down since the news.

    To make clear, FTSE250 is more reflective of native UK companies, whereas FTSE100 includes global megacorps, big oil, big pharma, miners and that, who have loads of irons in fire other than the UK.

    The FTSE 100 has also bounced back somewhat to claw back 50% of its dramatic initial loss.

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