BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

joenobody

ukiboy wrote:

The more I'm watching the news the more I realise how amazing these days are.
Princess Di dying, 9/11, 7/7 and now British Independance Day - these dates will stick firmly in my mind as historical and world changing events. This day, more than the others, will really stick in our collective minds. Thank You Great Britain! Thank You for delivering Independance to these great Islands!

How about UK Independence Day - UKID? I'd rather not...

Anyway, isn't rather a little early to be heralding it as a great historical moment? It's not even 12 hours since the decision, and we haven't yet even activated our get out clause.

pinno

[Pedant mode on] 'Unilateral disarmament' - wasn't a one sided concept. [Pedant mode off]

Let's roll this out to the negotiations. Hypothetically:

Britain has to accept some amount of free movement of people like Austria/Norway.
Britain has to concede to not placing tariffs from products imported within the Eurozone in case of reciprocity.
Britain has to maintain the exchange Health Care arrangements because of all the ex-pats living in Europe.
Britain has to arrange to maintain the exchange of security information for our mutual benefit.
Vetoing the European Court of Human Rights will be difficult...
Etc, etc, etc...

We are inextricably linked to the EU and philosophically, we are in it even though we'll be out of it.

I just hope Scotland can benefit. They will surely be benefitting from the off simply because of the SNP's stance.

The notion that we have seen seismic change in communities in the last 20 years is somehow a direct result of being in the EU is nonsense. I also don't see that we are in European Superstate and the political flux that was/is occurring in the European nations was at odds with it anyway, well before this referendum. I'd rather be in a European Superstate than a Gove State or a Johnson State or god forbid, a Farage state. He'll be in Kent soon running up and down the beach, having been made obsolete by his own actions, air rifle in hand loaded with darts, wearing a tin hat waiting to shoot rubber dinghies for the masses of people who'll want to get across la Manche before the 'gate' closes.

We have never had it so good and we all benefit form being in the EU but now we are stepping into the unknown. I wouldn't mind so much but I do not have the slightest trust in the wolves that will soon be steering this ship.

mr_goo

Pinno wrote:

[Pedant mode on] 'Unilateral disarmament' - wasn't a one sided concept. [Pedant mode off]

Let's roll this out to the negotiations. Hypothetically:

Britain has to accept some amount of free movement of people like Austria/Norway.
Britain has to concede to not placing tariffs from products imported within the Eurozone in case of reciprocity.
Britain has to maintain the exchange Health Care arrangements because of all the ex-pats living in Europe.
Britain has to arrange to maintain the exchange of security information for our mutual benefit.
Vetoing the European Court of Human Rights will be difficult...
Etc, etc, etc...

We are inextricably linked to the EU and philosophically, we are in it even though we'll be out of it.

I just hope Scotland can benefit. They will surely be benefitting from the off simply because of the SNP's stance.

The notion that we have seen seismic change in communities in the last 20 years is somehow a direct result of being in the EU is nonsense. I also don't see that we are in European Superstate and the political flux that was/is occurring in the European nations was at odds with it anyway, well before this referendum. I'd rather be in a European Superstate than a Gove State or a Johnson State or god forbid, a Farage state. He'll be in Kent soon running up and down the beach, having been made obsolete by his own actions, air rifle in hand loaded with darts, wearing a tin hat waiting to shoot rubber dinghies for the masses of people who'll want to get across la Manche before the 'gate' closes.

We have never had it so good and we all benefit form being in the EU but now we are stepping into the unknown. I wouldn't mind so much but I do not have the slightest trust in the wolves that will soon be steering this ship.

The European Court of Human Rights has absolutely no bearing on membership to the EU. It was formed in 1959 and has 47 member/associated states including Russia.

Bo Duke

Reading the last few pages... jeez guys......

ukiboy

orraloon wrote:

This taken from a tweet posted on BBC news site



The old have dragged the young out of the EU. They should be grateful to their elders eh?

As has been said elsewhere, a lot of those who voted Leave will be dead before it happens.

Youth, as so often is the case, falls far short in terms of knowledge, intelligence and wisdom.
The zenith of British cultural, patriotic and intelligent ability peaked during WW2.

Our citizens then were at the peak of their abilities and patriotism.

God bless the elders who have, in this instance, rescued Brittiania!

pinno

Mr Goo wrote:

Pinno wrote:

[Pedant mode on] 'Unilateral disarmament' - wasn't a one sided concept. [Pedant mode off]

Let's roll this out to the negotiations. Hypothetically:

Britain has to accept some amount of free movement of people like Austria/Norway.
Britain has to concede to not placing tariffs from products imported within the Eurozone in case of reciprocity.
Britain has to maintain the exchange Health Care arrangements because of all the ex-pats living in Europe.
Britain has to arrange to maintain the exchange of security information for our mutual benefit.
Vetoing the European Court of Human Rights will be difficult...
Etc, etc, etc...

We are inextricably linked to the EU and philosophically, we are in it even though we'll be out of it.

I just hope Scotland can benefit. They will surely be benefitting from the off simply because of the SNP's stance.

The notion that we have seen seismic change in communities in the last 20 years is somehow a direct result of being in the EU is nonsense. I also don't see that we are in European Superstate and the political flux that was/is occurring in the European nations was at odds with it anyway, well before this referendum. I'd rather be in a European Superstate than a Gove State or a Johnson State or god forbid, a Farage state. He'll be in Kent soon running up and down the beach, having been made obsolete by his own actions, air rifle in hand loaded with darts, wearing a tin hat waiting to shoot rubber dinghies for the masses of people who'll want to get across la Manche before the 'gate' closes.

We have never had it so good and we all benefit form being in the EU but now we are stepping into the unknown. I wouldn't mind so much but I do not have the slightest trust in the wolves that will soon be steering this ship.

The European Court of Human Rights has absolutely no bearing on membership to the EU. It was formed in 1959 and has 47 member/associated states including Russia.

That simply reinforces the argument that we are inextricably linked to Europe.

BelgianBeerGeek

Dunno about the ECHR. Everything might be up for grabs, who knows what PM Boris is going to think he can get away with?

surrey_commuter

ukiboy wrote:

orraloon wrote:

This taken from a tweet posted on BBC news site



The old have dragged the young out of the EU. They should be grateful to their elders eh?

As has been said elsewhere, a lot of those who voted Leave will be dead before it happens.

Youth, as so often is the case, falls far short in terms of knowledge, intelligence and wisdom.
The zenith of British cultural, patriotic and intelligent ability peaked during WW2.

Our citizens then were at the peak of their abilities and patriotism.

God bless the elders who have, in this instance, rescued Brittiania!

It is widely accepted that our peak was 1870-1913. It has been pretty much downhill since then.

Also any citizen at their peak in 1945 would now be well into their nineties.

orraloon

Can farage just xxxx off now please. You've achieved what you wanted, job done. So why is he being interviewed by the media still? He is an MEP, you know, one of Them Lot over in Brussels like wot is the problem innat, not a UK MP with a role in what happens now.

And while we're at it, can UKIP just xxxx off as well. No need for you any more. And those UKIP MEPs will of course be stopping immediately hoovering up their generous taxplayer funded salaries and expenses. Yeah right.

pinno

orraloon wrote:

And those UKIP MEPs will of course be stopping immediately hoovering up their generous taxplayer funded salaries and expenses. Yeah right.

Good point.

ukiboy

Who has stated that our peak was 1870 - 1913?

Our finest hour was surely standing up to the Nazis in '39...

schlepcycling

Pinno wrote:

Britain has to accept some amount of free movement of people like Austria/Norway.

Why pick on Austria they've been a member of the EU since 1995 so accept the same free movement rules like the other 27 EU countries. Do you mean Switzerland, outside the EU but allowed free movement of EU citizens in return for access to the free market or at least they did until they voted in a referendum in 2014 to introduce immigration quotas for everyone including EU citizens

mr_goo

Pinno wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Pinno wrote:

[Pedant mode on] 'Unilateral disarmament' - wasn't a one sided concept. [Pedant mode off]

Let's roll this out to the negotiations. Hypothetically:

Britain has to accept some amount of free movement of people like Austria/Norway.
Britain has to concede to not placing tariffs from products imported within the Eurozone in case of reciprocity.
Britain has to maintain the exchange Health Care arrangements because of all the ex-pats living in Europe.
Britain has to arrange to maintain the exchange of security information for our mutual benefit.
Vetoing the European Court of Human Rights will be difficult...
Etc, etc, etc...

We are inextricably linked to the EU and philosophically, we are in it even though we'll be out of it.

I just hope Scotland can benefit. They will surely be benefitting from the off simply because of the SNP's stance.

The notion that we have seen seismic change in communities in the last 20 years is somehow a direct result of being in the EU is nonsense. I also don't see that we are in European Superstate and the political flux that was/is occurring in the European nations was at odds with it anyway, well before this referendum. I'd rather be in a European Superstate than a Gove State or a Johnson State or god forbid, a Farage state. He'll be in Kent soon running up and down the beach, having been made obsolete by his own actions, air rifle in hand loaded with darts, wearing a tin hat waiting to shoot rubber dinghies for the masses of people who'll want to get across la Manche before the 'gate' closes.

We have never had it so good and we all benefit form being in the EU but now we are stepping into the unknown. I wouldn't mind so much but I do not have the slightest trust in the wolves that will soon be steering this ship.

The European Court of Human Rights has absolutely no bearing on membership to the EU. It was formed in 1959 and has 47 member/associated states including Russia.

That simply reinforces the argument that we are inextricably linked to Europe.

Who said we aren't?

orraloon

ukiboy wrote:

Youth, as so often is the case, falls far short in terms of knowledge, intelligence and wisdom.
The zenith of British cultural, patriotic and intelligent ability peaked during WW2.

On yer bike. My father flew in RAF Bomber Command in WW2 aged 19-22. Blxxdy kids eh?

Modern day 'kippers have no special claim on patriotism. My old man had been known to chase them off his doorstep.

Shall we start comparing service records?

bendertherobot

What's best case then?

Negotiate a free trade area with some free movement of people. No tariffs and custom duties etc.

Pay in a bit, use the left over stuff to deal with deprived areas of the UK.

Write fewer laws.

letap73

Bo Duke wrote:

ukiboy wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

ukiboy wrote:

Still, on the plus side, luvvies like Russell Brand, Emma Thompson and Russell Brand will now be crying into their Pot Noodles :-))))

I wonder if all those who said they would leave, will?

We'll see... These were the multi millionaires who don't live in the real world..
Beckhams, thompsons, bonham carters etc... The multi millionaires...

What do they really know about every day life?

The Polly Toynbees, the Diane Abbotts, the Osbornes, the Skinners, the Sturgeons....

These people are wildly rich. They don't live in the real world. They've not seen their communities changed beyond all recognition in the last twenty years..

The British electorate stuck two fingers up to the establishment. Thank You!
Thank you Wales, thank you northern England, thank you English shires, south west England etc...

Difficult to disagree with your logic.

What logic? Unless of course you think Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson et al are not part of the establishment. Come back in a years time and see what drastic changes have been made for the betterment of the working class.

bendertherobot

FaceTime bureaucracy v faceless bureaucrats

pinno

orraloon wrote:

ukiboy wrote:

Youth, as so often is the case, falls far short in terms of knowledge, intelligence and wisdom.
The zenith of British cultural, patriotic and intelligent ability peaked during WW2.

On yer bike. My father flew in RAF Bomber Command in WW2 aged 19-22. Blxxdy kids eh?

Modern day 'kippers have no special claim on patriotism. My old man had been known to chase them off his doorstep.

Shall we start comparing service records?

My mothers friend was at Greenham Common.

orraloon

bendertherobot wrote:

What's best case then?

Negotiate a free trade area with some free movement of people. No tariffs and custom duties etc.

Pay in a bit, use the left over stuff to deal with deprived areas of the UK.

Write fewer laws.

The Norway model. How much of the thoroughly debunked 350m do you think will be left, given the 'promises' made to spend it on the NHS, to replace farmers' CAP subsidies, etc, as well as paying for free market access?

Free trade aka open markets need laws to manage them.

letap73

orraloon wrote:

ukiboy wrote:

Youth, as so often is the case, falls far short in terms of knowledge, intelligence and wisdom.
The zenith of British cultural, patriotic and intelligent ability peaked during WW2.

On yer bike. My father flew in RAF Bomber Command in WW2 aged 19-22. Blxxdy kids eh?

Modern day 'kippers have no special claim on patriotism. My old man had been known to chase them off his doorstep.

Shall we start comparing service records?

Lets not forget the contribution of the Polish in the RAF who performed with great distinction in the battle of Britain:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Ai ... at_Britain

bendertherobot

orraloon wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

What's best case then?

Negotiate a free trade area with some free movement of people. No tariffs and custom duties etc.

Pay in a bit, use the left over stuff to deal with deprived areas of the UK.

Write fewer laws.

The Norway model. How much of the thoroughly debunked 350m do you think will be left, given the 'promises' made to spend it on the NHS, to replace farmers' CAP subsidies, etc, as well as paying for free market access?

Free trade aka open markets need laws to manage them.

Is it about £1.50? A Norway model looks good to me right now.

letap73

orraloon wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

What's best case then?

Negotiate a free trade area with some free movement of people. No tariffs and custom duties etc.

Pay in a bit, use the left over stuff to deal with deprived areas of the UK.

Write fewer laws.

The Norway model. How much of the thoroughly debunked 350m do you think will be left, given the 'promises' made to spend it on the NHS, to replace farmers' CAP subsidies, etc, as well as paying for free market access?

Free trade aka open markets need laws to manage them.

Will any of the alleged £350 million really go to the NHS etc?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0ktojE6WQA

pinno

Won't the 350m just simply get swallowed up in the budget deficit?

At least committing to paying the EU means that it gets a reasonably fair distribution instead of the chancellor distributing in a manner that gains votes.

orraloon

There never was a 350m...

bendertherobot

Pinno wrote:

Won't the 350m just simply get swallowed up in the budget deficit?

At least committing to paying the EU means that it gets a reasonably fair distribution instead of the chancellor distributing in a manner that gains votes.

Well. The £350m is toast for now. At least for a few years. That's the thing that really got missed. What was the out model. Project fear really should have been project information. Though, I guess, it would have demonstrated that leaving was actually fairly futile given how much we'd integrated ourselves. And that would be an admission of how much we'd integrated ourselves.

ukiboy

My dad's friend was at Waterloo :-)))

letap73

orraloon wrote:

There never was a 350m...

Hang on the leave leaflet I got the other day "implied" three things:
1. The saving of 350 million a week.
2. Every body on my street was voting leave.
3. Syria and Iraq were going to join the EU.

Are you saying that none of the above is true? :shock:

BelgianBeerGeek

ukiboy wrote:

My dad's friend was at Waterloo :-)))

Which platform?

veronese68

ukiboy wrote:

Youth, as so often is the case, falls far short in terms of knowledge, intelligence and wisdom.
The zenith of British cultural, patriotic and intelligent ability peaked during WW2.

Our citizens then were at the peak of their abilities and patriotism.

God bless the elders who have, in this instance, rescued Brittiania!

:roll:

BelgianBeerGeek

Veronese68 wrote:

ukiboy wrote:

Youth, as so often is the case, falls far short in terms of knowledge, intelligence and wisdom.
The zenith of British cultural, patriotic and intelligent ability peaked during WW2.

Our citizens then were at the peak of their abilities and patriotism.

God bless the elders who have, in this instance, rescued Brittiania!

:roll:

I was going to ignore that, but I second the eye-ball rolling.
Specially when they can't spell Britannia. Referendum may be a nightmare, but there is no stopping spellinf pedantry ruling this green and sceptered isle!