BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
-
but you must see why other countries do not see us a shining light of best practise?rjsterry said:
Not sure commercially motivated bans and hearsay count as evidence. The mistakes of the 70s and 80s are what have led to us having higher standards than most other countries.surrey_commuter said:
Due to dodgy farming practices most foreigners I know are deeply suspicious of British meat.briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:The irony is of course that our farming practices are viewed badly outside of the UK
In what ways, and evidence? Genuinely interested.
If it's on the economic efficiency front, in animal husbandry terms, that's not unrelated to welfare: it's not necessarily directly proportional, but welfare costs money (see the routine high use of antibiotics in animal husbandry in the US - it's a substitute for good husbandry and more expensive systems that involve more, and more expensive, labour).
This isn't a paean to small family farms - I've seen some shockers, where the ignorance of good practice and modern advances has been unpleasant - but efficiencies can come all too easily at a cost to the animals and land under a farmer's care.
Here, since BB gave us a photo, I'll give you one too. This is deemed inefficient, maybe, but having healthy contented livestock is not just about churning out milk at the lowest possible cost.
If you google countries with bans on meat exports you will be surprised
Brian is right. Good animal husbandry and production hygiene is expensive. The quality of husbandry also affects the hygiene of the meat produced, so it's not just a welfare issue. The reason intensively produced meat involves the use of antibiotics is that the closer living conditions mean higher rates of disease and infection. The only way to get cheap meat is to lower standards.0 -
I suspect most passing views on another country's standards are unaware of the low standards that apply in their own country. Or are being hypocritical for political gain.surrey_commuter said:
but you must see why other countries do not see us a shining light of best practise?rjsterry said:
Not sure commercially motivated bans and hearsay count as evidence. The mistakes of the 70s and 80s are what have led to us having higher standards than most other countries.surrey_commuter said:
Due to dodgy farming practices most foreigners I know are deeply suspicious of British meat.briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:The irony is of course that our farming practices are viewed badly outside of the UK
In what ways, and evidence? Genuinely interested.
If it's on the economic efficiency front, in animal husbandry terms, that's not unrelated to welfare: it's not necessarily directly proportional, but welfare costs money (see the routine high use of antibiotics in animal husbandry in the US - it's a substitute for good husbandry and more expensive systems that involve more, and more expensive, labour).
This isn't a paean to small family farms - I've seen some shockers, where the ignorance of good practice and modern advances has been unpleasant - but efficiencies can come all too easily at a cost to the animals and land under a farmer's care.
Here, since BB gave us a photo, I'll give you one too. This is deemed inefficient, maybe, but having healthy contented livestock is not just about churning out milk at the lowest possible cost.
If you google countries with bans on meat exports you will be surprised
Brian is right. Good animal husbandry and production hygiene is expensive. The quality of husbandry also affects the hygiene of the meat produced, so it's not just a welfare issue. The reason intensively produced meat involves the use of antibiotics is that the closer living conditions mean higher rates of disease and infection. The only way to get cheap meat is to lower standards.0 -
Not really. Where do you think is better?surrey_commuter said:
but you must see why other countries do not see us a shining light of best practise?rjsterry said:
Not sure commercially motivated bans and hearsay count as evidence. The mistakes of the 70s and 80s are what have led to us having higher standards than most other countries.surrey_commuter said:
Due to dodgy farming practices most foreigners I know are deeply suspicious of British meat.briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:The irony is of course that our farming practices are viewed badly outside of the UK
In what ways, and evidence? Genuinely interested.
If it's on the economic efficiency front, in animal husbandry terms, that's not unrelated to welfare: it's not necessarily directly proportional, but welfare costs money (see the routine high use of antibiotics in animal husbandry in the US - it's a substitute for good husbandry and more expensive systems that involve more, and more expensive, labour).
This isn't a paean to small family farms - I've seen some shockers, where the ignorance of good practice and modern advances has been unpleasant - but efficiencies can come all too easily at a cost to the animals and land under a farmer's care.
Here, since BB gave us a photo, I'll give you one too. This is deemed inefficient, maybe, but having healthy contented livestock is not just about churning out milk at the lowest possible cost.
If you google countries with bans on meat exports you will be surprised
Brian is right. Good animal husbandry and production hygiene is expensive. The quality of husbandry also affects the hygiene of the meat produced, so it's not just a welfare issue. The reason intensively produced meat involves the use of antibiotics is that the closer living conditions mean higher rates of disease and infection. The only way to get cheap meat is to lower standards.
Other beef producing countries had BSE outbreaks. They just covered up better.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Negotiations to improve UK-Swiss deal have started.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/negotiations-on-an-enhanced-uk-switzerland-free-trade-agreement-update1 -
JCB Disease in many cases I believe.rjsterry said:
Not really. Where do you think is better?surrey_commuter said:
but you must see why other countries do not see us a shining light of best practise?rjsterry said:
Not sure commercially motivated bans and hearsay count as evidence. The mistakes of the 70s and 80s are what have led to us having higher standards than most other countries.surrey_commuter said:
Due to dodgy farming practices most foreigners I know are deeply suspicious of British meat.briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:The irony is of course that our farming practices are viewed badly outside of the UK
In what ways, and evidence? Genuinely interested.
If it's on the economic efficiency front, in animal husbandry terms, that's not unrelated to welfare: it's not necessarily directly proportional, but welfare costs money (see the routine high use of antibiotics in animal husbandry in the US - it's a substitute for good husbandry and more expensive systems that involve more, and more expensive, labour).
This isn't a paean to small family farms - I've seen some shockers, where the ignorance of good practice and modern advances has been unpleasant - but efficiencies can come all too easily at a cost to the animals and land under a farmer's care.
Here, since BB gave us a photo, I'll give you one too. This is deemed inefficient, maybe, but having healthy contented livestock is not just about churning out milk at the lowest possible cost.
If you google countries with bans on meat exports you will be surprised
Brian is right. Good animal husbandry and production hygiene is expensive. The quality of husbandry also affects the hygiene of the meat produced, so it's not just a welfare issue. The reason intensively produced meat involves the use of antibiotics is that the closer living conditions mean higher rates of disease and infection. The only way to get cheap meat is to lower standards.
Other beef producing countries had BSE outbreaks. They just covered up better.
0 -
surrey_commuter said:
but you must see why other countries do not see us a shining light of best practise?rjsterry said:
Not sure commercially motivated bans and hearsay count as evidence. The mistakes of the 70s and 80s are what have led to us having higher standards than most other countries.surrey_commuter said:
Due to dodgy farming practices most foreigners I know are deeply suspicious of British meat.briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:The irony is of course that our farming practices are viewed badly outside of the UK
In what ways, and evidence? Genuinely interested.
If it's on the economic efficiency front, in animal husbandry terms, that's not unrelated to welfare: it's not necessarily directly proportional, but welfare costs money (see the routine high use of antibiotics in animal husbandry in the US - it's a substitute for good husbandry and more expensive systems that involve more, and more expensive, labour).
This isn't a paean to small family farms - I've seen some shockers, where the ignorance of good practice and modern advances has been unpleasant - but efficiencies can come all too easily at a cost to the animals and land under a farmer's care.
Here, since BB gave us a photo, I'll give you one too. This is deemed inefficient, maybe, but having healthy contented livestock is not just about churning out milk at the lowest possible cost.
If you google countries with bans on meat exports you will be surprised
Brian is right. Good animal husbandry and production hygiene is expensive. The quality of husbandry also affects the hygiene of the meat produced, so it's not just a welfare issue. The reason intensively produced meat involves the use of antibiotics is that the closer living conditions mean higher rates of disease and infection. The only way to get cheap meat is to lower standards.
https://api.worldanimalprotection.org/0 -
The UK comes way down in the list of how much antibiotics are used in their farm animals, in Europe. Antibiotics are usully a substitute for more labour-intensive and skilled (i.e., more costly) husbandry.
https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/cp_data_news/fewer-antibiotics-in-european-livestock-farming/
I'm still interested (at the risk of sealioning) where all this negtive stuff about British farming practices, in comparison with other countries, is documented. As mentioned here ages ago, the UK was ahead of the rest of the EU on sow & veal crates, battery eggs, and various other welfare issues, and voluntarily brought forward dates for banning practices in the UK ahead of other EU countries. That too cost money.0 -
-
I feel that whatever I post up will be shot down but if you Google UK meat exports you will see that we have a poor reputation.briantrumpet said:The UK comes way down in the list of how much antibiotics are used in their farm animals, in Europe. Antibiotics are usully a substitute for more labour-intensive and skilled (i.e., more costly) husbandry.
https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/cp_data_news/fewer-antibiotics-in-european-livestock-farming/
I'm still interested (at the risk of sealioning) where all this negtive stuff about British farming practices, in comparison with other countries, is documented. As mentioned here ages ago, the UK was ahead of the rest of the EU on sow & veal crates, battery eggs, and various other welfare issues, and voluntarily brought forward dates for banning practices in the UK ahead of other EU countries. That too cost money.1 -
surrey_commuter said:
I feel that whatever I post up will be shot down but if you Google UK meat exports you will see that we have a poor reputation.briantrumpet said:The UK comes way down in the list of how much antibiotics are used in their farm animals, in Europe. Antibiotics are usully a substitute for more labour-intensive and skilled (i.e., more costly) husbandry.
https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/cp_data_news/fewer-antibiotics-in-european-livestock-farming/
I'm still interested (at the risk of sealioning) where all this negtive stuff about British farming practices, in comparison with other countries, is documented. As mentioned here ages ago, the UK was ahead of the rest of the EU on sow & veal crates, battery eggs, and various other welfare issues, and voluntarily brought forward dates for banning practices in the UK ahead of other EU countries. That too cost money.
You'll have to help me, as if I google UK meat exports, I get a load of hits saying it's gone to record levels.
https://www.agriland.co.uk/farming-news/highest-on-record-uk-red-meat-exports-worth-1-7bn-in-2022/0 -
You've momentarily forgotten to think about Brexit. Surely a record level would be impossible with Brexit?briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
I feel that whatever I post up will be shot down but if you Google UK meat exports you will see that we have a poor reputation.briantrumpet said:The UK comes way down in the list of how much antibiotics are used in their farm animals, in Europe. Antibiotics are usully a substitute for more labour-intensive and skilled (i.e., more costly) husbandry.
https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/cp_data_news/fewer-antibiotics-in-european-livestock-farming/
I'm still interested (at the risk of sealioning) where all this negtive stuff about British farming practices, in comparison with other countries, is documented. As mentioned here ages ago, the UK was ahead of the rest of the EU on sow & veal crates, battery eggs, and various other welfare issues, and voluntarily brought forward dates for banning practices in the UK ahead of other EU countries. That too cost money.
You'll have to help me, as if I google UK meat exports, I get a load of hits saying it's gone to record levels.
https://www.agriland.co.uk/farming-news/highest-on-record-uk-red-meat-exports-worth-1-7bn-in-2022/
1 -
TheBigBean said:
You've momentarily forgotten to think about Brexit. Surely a record level would be impossible with Brexit?briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
I feel that whatever I post up will be shot down but if you Google UK meat exports you will see that we have a poor reputation.briantrumpet said:The UK comes way down in the list of how much antibiotics are used in their farm animals, in Europe. Antibiotics are usully a substitute for more labour-intensive and skilled (i.e., more costly) husbandry.
https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/cp_data_news/fewer-antibiotics-in-european-livestock-farming/
I'm still interested (at the risk of sealioning) where all this negtive stuff about British farming practices, in comparison with other countries, is documented. As mentioned here ages ago, the UK was ahead of the rest of the EU on sow & veal crates, battery eggs, and various other welfare issues, and voluntarily brought forward dates for banning practices in the UK ahead of other EU countries. That too cost money.
You'll have to help me, as if I google UK meat exports, I get a load of hits saying it's gone to record levels.
https://www.agriland.co.uk/farming-news/highest-on-record-uk-red-meat-exports-worth-1-7bn-in-2022/
I had noticed the irony. It's a fair point.0 -
there are none so blind as those who cannot seebriantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
I feel that whatever I post up will be shot down but if you Google UK meat exports you will see that we have a poor reputation.briantrumpet said:The UK comes way down in the list of how much antibiotics are used in their farm animals, in Europe. Antibiotics are usully a substitute for more labour-intensive and skilled (i.e., more costly) husbandry.
https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/cp_data_news/fewer-antibiotics-in-european-livestock-farming/
I'm still interested (at the risk of sealioning) where all this negtive stuff about British farming practices, in comparison with other countries, is documented. As mentioned here ages ago, the UK was ahead of the rest of the EU on sow & veal crates, battery eggs, and various other welfare issues, and voluntarily brought forward dates for banning practices in the UK ahead of other EU countries. That too cost money.
You'll have to help me, as if I google UK meat exports, I get a load of hits saying it's gone to record levels.
https://www.agriland.co.uk/farming-news/highest-on-record-uk-red-meat-exports-worth-1-7bn-in-2022/0 -
-
I mean, it’s not Dutch meat which is 95% water, but have you lot not all noticed how nice the meat is as soon as you go abroad on the continent?
Italy, Spain, France - even Germany.
Had myself a fantastic bistecca just from the local supermarket here in Umbria. €17 a kilo and it was just so much better quality than you’d get at home. Totally different tier.
You could probably get the same at double the price at home, so I do struggle to believe that British meat is all that.
Should add they do really sell the aged Angus stuff as premium meat but that is properly expensive - €50 a kilo.0 -
surrey_commuter said:
there are none so blind as those who cannot seebriantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
I feel that whatever I post up will be shot down but if you Google UK meat exports you will see that we have a poor reputation.briantrumpet said:The UK comes way down in the list of how much antibiotics are used in their farm animals, in Europe. Antibiotics are usully a substitute for more labour-intensive and skilled (i.e., more costly) husbandry.
https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/cp_data_news/fewer-antibiotics-in-european-livestock-farming/
I'm still interested (at the risk of sealioning) where all this negtive stuff about British farming practices, in comparison with other countries, is documented. As mentioned here ages ago, the UK was ahead of the rest of the EU on sow & veal crates, battery eggs, and various other welfare issues, and voluntarily brought forward dates for banning practices in the UK ahead of other EU countries. That too cost money.
You'll have to help me, as if I google UK meat exports, I get a load of hits saying it's gone to record levels.
https://www.agriland.co.uk/farming-news/highest-on-record-uk-red-meat-exports-worth-1-7bn-in-2022/
Just one link would do... telling me I'm stupid isn't terribly helpful.0 -
I'm aware of the reputational damage as a relic of BSE and the associated commercially motivated hysteria. Which was getting on for 40 years ago. There's also mass ignorance - you regularly see people claiming that all UK meat is full of hormones and antibiotics when one is completely banned and the other strictly controlled and limited to therapeutic use. Aside from the hearsay which countries do you think actually have better welfare and food hygiene standards?surrey_commuter said:
I feel that whatever I post up will be shot down but if you Google UK meat exports you will see that we have a poor reputation.briantrumpet said:The UK comes way down in the list of how much antibiotics are used in their farm animals, in Europe. Antibiotics are usully a substitute for more labour-intensive and skilled (i.e., more costly) husbandry.
https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/cp_data_news/fewer-antibiotics-in-european-livestock-farming/
I'm still interested (at the risk of sealioning) where all this negtive stuff about British farming practices, in comparison with other countries, is documented. As mentioned here ages ago, the UK was ahead of the rest of the EU on sow & veal crates, battery eggs, and various other welfare issues, and voluntarily brought forward dates for banning practices in the UK ahead of other EU countries. That too cost money.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Check out the widespread decades long bans over BSE and foot and mouth disease when we poisoned the food chainbriantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
there are none so blind as those who cannot seebriantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
I feel that whatever I post up will be shot down but if you Google UK meat exports you will see that we have a poor reputation.briantrumpet said:The UK comes way down in the list of how much antibiotics are used in their farm animals, in Europe. Antibiotics are usully a substitute for more labour-intensive and skilled (i.e., more costly) husbandry.
https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/cp_data_news/fewer-antibiotics-in-european-livestock-farming/
I'm still interested (at the risk of sealioning) where all this negtive stuff about British farming practices, in comparison with other countries, is documented. As mentioned here ages ago, the UK was ahead of the rest of the EU on sow & veal crates, battery eggs, and various other welfare issues, and voluntarily brought forward dates for banning practices in the UK ahead of other EU countries. That too cost money.
You'll have to help me, as if I google UK meat exports, I get a load of hits saying it's gone to record levels.
https://www.agriland.co.uk/farming-news/highest-on-record-uk-red-meat-exports-worth-1-7bn-in-2022/
Just one link would do... telling me I'm stupid isn't terribly helpful.0 -
rjsterry said:
I'm aware of the reputational damage as a relic of BSE and the associated commercially motivated hysteria. Which was getting on for 40 years ago.
BSE was not 40 years ago. Bans on the import of british lamb to the USA were introduced in the early 1980s (and I believe still exist), following major outbreaks of foot&mouth in the UK during the late 1960s and again in the early 1980s (and again in 2001).surrey_commuter said:Check out the widespread decades long bans over BSE and foot and mouth disease when we poisoned the food chain
The EU ban on british beef exports to the EU and the American ban on imports to the USA, because of BSE, were introduced in 1996. The EU restrictions were gradually relaxed over a decade or so, while I think it was only about 18 months ago the USA again accepted the import of british beef.
Because of BSE, China banned the import of british beef in 1998 and only lifted the ban in 2018, but following a few new BSE cases in the UK during 2018 and 2019, China didn't actually ever start importing british beef again, so wary were they.
A new case of BSE in Somerset during 2021, prompted the Chinese to re-introduce some partial restrictions on the import of british beef, so they probably still haven't started importing any british beef yet.
0 -
Thanks jimmyjams I am starting to realise that British farming belongs in a box with the NHS for revered things that must never be criticised that the rest of the world think is a bit sh1tjimmyjams said:rjsterry said:I'm aware of the reputational damage as a relic of BSE and the associated commercially motivated hysteria. Which was getting on for 40 years ago.
BSE was not 40 years ago. Bans on the import of british lamb to the USA were introduced in the early 1980s (and I believe still exist), following major outbreaks of foot&mouth in the UK during the late 1960s and again in the early 1980s (and again in 2001).surrey_commuter said:Check out the widespread decades long bans over BSE and foot and mouth disease when we poisoned the food chain
The EU ban on british beef exports to the EU and the American ban on imports to the USA, because of BSE, were introduced in 1996. The EU restrictions were gradually relaxed over a decade or so, while I think it was only about 18 months ago the USA again accepted the import of british beef.
Because of BSE, China banned the import of british beef in 1998 and only lifted the ban in 2018, but following a few new BSE cases in the UK during 2018 and 2019, China didn't actually ever start importing british beef again, so wary were they.
A new case of BSE in Somerset during 2021, prompted the Chinese to re-introduce some partial restrictions on the import of british beef, so they probably still haven't started importing any british beef yet.1 -
surrey_commuter said:
Check out the widespread decades long bans over BSE and foot and mouth disease when we poisoned the food chainbriantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
there are none so blind as those who cannot seebriantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
I feel that whatever I post up will be shot down but if you Google UK meat exports you will see that we have a poor reputation.briantrumpet said:The UK comes way down in the list of how much antibiotics are used in their farm animals, in Europe. Antibiotics are usully a substitute for more labour-intensive and skilled (i.e., more costly) husbandry.
https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/cp_data_news/fewer-antibiotics-in-european-livestock-farming/
I'm still interested (at the risk of sealioning) where all this negtive stuff about British farming practices, in comparison with other countries, is documented. As mentioned here ages ago, the UK was ahead of the rest of the EU on sow & veal crates, battery eggs, and various other welfare issues, and voluntarily brought forward dates for banning practices in the UK ahead of other EU countries. That too cost money.
You'll have to help me, as if I google UK meat exports, I get a load of hits saying it's gone to record levels.
https://www.agriland.co.uk/farming-news/highest-on-record-uk-red-meat-exports-worth-1-7bn-in-2022/
Just one link would do... telling me I'm stupid isn't terribly helpful.
Thanks.0 -
As I said upthread, apart from turbo expensive luxury meat, the quality is pretty poorsurrey_commuter said:
Thanks jimmyjams I am starting to realise that British farming belongs in a box with the NHS for revered things that must never be criticised that the rest of the world think is a bit censoredjimmyjams said:rjsterry said:I'm aware of the reputational damage as a relic of BSE and the associated commercially motivated hysteria. Which was getting on for 40 years ago.
BSE was not 40 years ago. Bans on the import of british lamb to the USA were introduced in the early 1980s (and I believe still exist), following major outbreaks of foot&mouth in the UK during the late 1960s and again in the early 1980s (and again in 2001).surrey_commuter said:Check out the widespread decades long bans over BSE and foot and mouth disease when we poisoned the food chain
The EU ban on british beef exports to the EU and the American ban on imports to the USA, because of BSE, were introduced in 1996. The EU restrictions were gradually relaxed over a decade or so, while I think it was only about 18 months ago the USA again accepted the import of british beef.
Because of BSE, China banned the import of british beef in 1998 and only lifted the ban in 2018, but following a few new BSE cases in the UK during 2018 and 2019, China didn't actually ever start importing british beef again, so wary were they.
A new case of BSE in Somerset during 2021, prompted the Chinese to re-introduce some partial restrictions on the import of british beef, so they probably still haven't started importing any british beef yet.0 -
Isn't it like football fans? A lot of countries think England has the worst due to their actions in the 80s. That doesn't necessarily reflect current times.surrey_commuter said:
Thanks jimmyjams I am starting to realise that British farming belongs in a box with the NHS for revered things that must never be criticised that the rest of the world think is a bit censoredjimmyjams said:rjsterry said:I'm aware of the reputational damage as a relic of BSE and the associated commercially motivated hysteria. Which was getting on for 40 years ago.
BSE was not 40 years ago. Bans on the import of british lamb to the USA were introduced in the early 1980s (and I believe still exist), following major outbreaks of foot&mouth in the UK during the late 1960s and again in the early 1980s (and again in 2001).surrey_commuter said:Check out the widespread decades long bans over BSE and foot and mouth disease when we poisoned the food chain
The EU ban on british beef exports to the EU and the American ban on imports to the USA, because of BSE, were introduced in 1996. The EU restrictions were gradually relaxed over a decade or so, while I think it was only about 18 months ago the USA again accepted the import of british beef.
Because of BSE, China banned the import of british beef in 1998 and only lifted the ban in 2018, but following a few new BSE cases in the UK during 2018 and 2019, China didn't actually ever start importing british beef again, so wary were they.
A new case of BSE in Somerset during 2021, prompted the Chinese to re-introduce some partial restrictions on the import of british beef, so they probably still haven't started importing any british beef yet.
1 -
rick_chasey said:
As I said upthread, apart from turbo expensive luxury meat, the quality is pretty poorsurrey_commuter said:
Thanks jimmyjams I am starting to realise that British farming belongs in a box with the NHS for revered things that must never be criticised that the rest of the world think is a bit censoredjimmyjams said:rjsterry said:I'm aware of the reputational damage as a relic of BSE and the associated commercially motivated hysteria. Which was getting on for 40 years ago.
BSE was not 40 years ago. Bans on the import of british lamb to the USA were introduced in the early 1980s (and I believe still exist), following major outbreaks of foot&mouth in the UK during the late 1960s and again in the early 1980s (and again in 2001).surrey_commuter said:Check out the widespread decades long bans over BSE and foot and mouth disease when we poisoned the food chain
The EU ban on british beef exports to the EU and the American ban on imports to the USA, because of BSE, were introduced in 1996. The EU restrictions were gradually relaxed over a decade or so, while I think it was only about 18 months ago the USA again accepted the import of british beef.
Because of BSE, China banned the import of british beef in 1998 and only lifted the ban in 2018, but following a few new BSE cases in the UK during 2018 and 2019, China didn't actually ever start importing british beef again, so wary were they.
A new case of BSE in Somerset during 2021, prompted the Chinese to re-introduce some partial restrictions on the import of british beef, so they probably still haven't started importing any british beef yet.
Shit meat is available in other countries too... the pork I bought in Intermarché recently was full of water. Serves me right, as I should have bought from the local free-range bloke in the market.0 -
The 1980s is getting on for 40 years ago. Having grown up in the West Country in the 1980s with two veterinary parents I'm obviously aware that cases continued well beyond that point.jimmyjams said:rjsterry said:I'm aware of the reputational damage as a relic of BSE and the associated commercially motivated hysteria. Which was getting on for 40 years ago.
BSE was not 40 years ago. Bans on the import of british lamb to the USA were introduced in the early 1980s (and I believe still exist), following major outbreaks of foot&mouth in the UK during the late 1960s and again in the early 1980s (and again in 2001).surrey_commuter said:Check out the widespread decades long bans over BSE and foot and mouth disease when we poisoned the food chain
The EU ban on british beef exports to the EU and the American ban on imports to the USA, because of BSE, were introduced in 1996. The EU restrictions were gradually relaxed over a decade or so, while I think it was only about 18 months ago the USA again accepted the import of british beef.
Because of BSE, China banned the import of british beef in 1998 and only lifted the ban in 2018, but following a few new BSE cases in the UK during 2018 and 2019, China didn't actually ever start importing british beef again, so wary were they.
A new case of BSE in Somerset during 2021, prompted the Chinese to re-introduce some partial restrictions on the import of british beef, so they probably still haven't started importing any british beef yet.
As you point out, import bans for various reasons have been used around the world and over a long time frame.
BSE has been found in a number of indigenous herds (i.e. not imported live animals) outside the UK. I think it is extremely unlikely that the UK was the only country previously allowing what is now called specified risk material into animal feed.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
There's plenty to criticise*. It's also possible that the rest of the world's view is inaccurate. There's a long history of disease being attached to foreigners: we used to call syphilis 'French Pox'. The French referred to it as the Neapolitan disease.surrey_commuter said:
Thanks jimmyjams I am starting to realise that British farming belongs in a box with the NHS for revered things that must never be criticised that the rest of the world think is a bit censoredjimmyjams said:rjsterry said:I'm aware of the reputational damage as a relic of BSE and the associated commercially motivated hysteria. Which was getting on for 40 years ago.
BSE was not 40 years ago. Bans on the import of british lamb to the USA were introduced in the early 1980s (and I believe still exist), following major outbreaks of foot&mouth in the UK during the late 1960s and again in the early 1980s (and again in 2001).surrey_commuter said:Check out the widespread decades long bans over BSE and foot and mouth disease when we poisoned the food chain
The EU ban on british beef exports to the EU and the American ban on imports to the USA, because of BSE, were introduced in 1996. The EU restrictions were gradually relaxed over a decade or so, while I think it was only about 18 months ago the USA again accepted the import of british beef.
Because of BSE, China banned the import of british beef in 1998 and only lifted the ban in 2018, but following a few new BSE cases in the UK during 2018 and 2019, China didn't actually ever start importing british beef again, so wary were they.
A new case of BSE in Somerset during 2021, prompted the Chinese to re-introduce some partial restrictions on the import of british beef, so they probably still haven't started importing any british beef yet.
*Were my dad still around he could fill a podcast with stories of poor husbandry and abbatoir malpractice. He also had a very clear league table of supermarket meat. But people are much the same the world over: some are careful and conscientious and some are lazy and careless.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
With both diseases, action to contain & eradicate were surprisingly swift. Obviously because of the nature of BSE, it took longer to bring numbers down, but the government scientists got the call right, and took the correct actions once the problem became apparent. The F&M outbreak lasted from Feb-Sept, but it was effectively brought under control in two months.rjsterry said:
The 1980s is getting on for 40 years ago. Having grown up in the West Country in the 1980s with two veterinary parents I'm obviously aware that cases continued well beyond that point.jimmyjams said:rjsterry said:I'm aware of the reputational damage as a relic of BSE and the associated commercially motivated hysteria. Which was getting on for 40 years ago.
BSE was not 40 years ago. Bans on the import of british lamb to the USA were introduced in the early 1980s (and I believe still exist), following major outbreaks of foot&mouth in the UK during the late 1960s and again in the early 1980s (and again in 2001).surrey_commuter said:Check out the widespread decades long bans over BSE and foot and mouth disease when we poisoned the food chain
The EU ban on british beef exports to the EU and the American ban on imports to the USA, because of BSE, were introduced in 1996. The EU restrictions were gradually relaxed over a decade or so, while I think it was only about 18 months ago the USA again accepted the import of british beef.
Because of BSE, China banned the import of british beef in 1998 and only lifted the ban in 2018, but following a few new BSE cases in the UK during 2018 and 2019, China didn't actually ever start importing british beef again, so wary were they.
A new case of BSE in Somerset during 2021, prompted the Chinese to re-introduce some partial restrictions on the import of british beef, so they probably still haven't started importing any british beef yet.
As you point out, import bans for various reasons have been used around the world and over a long time frame.
BSE has been found in a number of indigenous herds (i.e. not imported live animals) outside the UK. I think it is extremely unlikely that the UK was the only country previously allowing what is now called specified risk material into animal feed.
Neither were a great advert for British produce, true.
Now, the rare odd encepalopathic notifications appear to be spread equally around Europe.This report presents the results of surveillance on transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSE) in cattle, sheep, goats, cervids and other species, and genotyping in sheep, carried out in 2020 by 27 Member States (MS, EU27), the United Kingdom (UK) and other seven non-EU countries: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Iceland, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Norway, Serbia and Switzerland. In total, 1,122,671 cattle were tested by EU27 and the UK (−2.4%, compared with 2019), and 51,775 cattle by the other seven non-EU, with three cases of H-BSE in France, Ireland and Spain, and two L-BSE in France and Switzerland. In total, 332,579 sheep and 120,615 goats were tested in the EU27 and the UK (−1.6% and −16%, respectively). In sheep, 688 cases of scrapie were reported by 16 MS and the UK: 589 classical scrapie (CS) by seven MS [81 index cases (IC), one of ARR/ARR genotype and 97% with genotypes of susceptible groups], 98 atypical scrapie (AS) (88 IC) by 14 MS and the UK, and one CH1641-like. In addition, Italy reported 12 inconclusive cases. In total, 26,053 sheep and 712 goats were tested in the other non-EU countries with 53 CS in Iceland and 12 AS in Norway. Random genotyping was reported by nine MS: with Cyprus excluded, 8.8% carried the genotypes of susceptible groups. In goats, 328 cases of scrapie were reported: 319 CS (52 IC) by six MS and the UK, and nine AS (9 IC) by five MS. The last of the 3-year surveillance programme for chronic wasting disease (CWD) in Estonia, Finland, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and Sweden resulted in 6,974 tested cervids and two CWD cases in wild moose, in Finland and Sweden. Other six MS and the UK tested 2,197 cervids, all negative. Norway tested 22,528 cervids of which one wild moose and one wild reindeer were positive. In total, 101 animals from three other species tested negative in Finland.
https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.2903/j.efsa.2021.69340 -
Try gazegill. More expensive than a supermarket, but not that bad.rick_chasey said:
As I said upthread, apart from turbo expensive luxury meat, the quality is pretty poorsurrey_commuter said:
Thanks jimmyjams I am starting to realise that British farming belongs in a box with the NHS for revered things that must never be criticised that the rest of the world think is a bit censoredjimmyjams said:rjsterry said:I'm aware of the reputational damage as a relic of BSE and the associated commercially motivated hysteria. Which was getting on for 40 years ago.
BSE was not 40 years ago. Bans on the import of british lamb to the USA were introduced in the early 1980s (and I believe still exist), following major outbreaks of foot&mouth in the UK during the late 1960s and again in the early 1980s (and again in 2001).surrey_commuter said:Check out the widespread decades long bans over BSE and foot and mouth disease when we poisoned the food chain
The EU ban on british beef exports to the EU and the American ban on imports to the USA, because of BSE, were introduced in 1996. The EU restrictions were gradually relaxed over a decade or so, while I think it was only about 18 months ago the USA again accepted the import of british beef.
Because of BSE, China banned the import of british beef in 1998 and only lifted the ban in 2018, but following a few new BSE cases in the UK during 2018 and 2019, China didn't actually ever start importing british beef again, so wary were they.
A new case of BSE in Somerset during 2021, prompted the Chinese to re-introduce some partial restrictions on the import of british beef, so they probably still haven't started importing any british beef yet.0 -
It wasn’t so long ago Irish British and Dutch farmers were passing off horse meat for beefrjsterry said:
There's plenty to criticise*. It's also possible that the rest of the world's view is inaccurate. There's a long history of disease being attached to foreigners: we used to call syphilis 'French Pox'. The French referred to it as the Neapolitan disease.surrey_commuter said:
Thanks jimmyjams I am starting to realise that British farming belongs in a box with the NHS for revered things that must never be criticised that the rest of the world think is a bit censoredjimmyjams said:rjsterry said:I'm aware of the reputational damage as a relic of BSE and the associated commercially motivated hysteria. Which was getting on for 40 years ago.
BSE was not 40 years ago. Bans on the import of british lamb to the USA were introduced in the early 1980s (and I believe still exist), following major outbreaks of foot&mouth in the UK during the late 1960s and again in the early 1980s (and again in 2001).surrey_commuter said:Check out the widespread decades long bans over BSE and foot and mouth disease when we poisoned the food chain
The EU ban on british beef exports to the EU and the American ban on imports to the USA, because of BSE, were introduced in 1996. The EU restrictions were gradually relaxed over a decade or so, while I think it was only about 18 months ago the USA again accepted the import of british beef.
Because of BSE, China banned the import of british beef in 1998 and only lifted the ban in 2018, but following a few new BSE cases in the UK during 2018 and 2019, China didn't actually ever start importing british beef again, so wary were they.
A new case of BSE in Somerset during 2021, prompted the Chinese to re-introduce some partial restrictions on the import of british beef, so they probably still haven't started importing any british beef yet.
*Were my dad still around he could fill a podcast with stories of poor husbandry and abbatoir malpractice. He also had a very clear league table of supermarket meat. But people are much the same the world over: some are careful and conscientious and some are lazy and careless.0 -
Try finding a good butcher. More expensive than a supermarket but ultimately better value for money, if you taste the difference.rick_chasey said:
As I said upthread, apart from turbo expensive luxury meat, the quality is pretty poorsurrey_commuter said:
Thanks jimmyjams I am starting to realise that British farming belongs in a box with the NHS for revered things that must never be criticised that the rest of the world think is a bit censoredjimmyjams said:rjsterry said:I'm aware of the reputational damage as a relic of BSE and the associated commercially motivated hysteria. Which was getting on for 40 years ago.
BSE was not 40 years ago. Bans on the import of british lamb to the USA were introduced in the early 1980s (and I believe still exist), following major outbreaks of foot&mouth in the UK during the late 1960s and again in the early 1980s (and again in 2001).surrey_commuter said:Check out the widespread decades long bans over BSE and foot and mouth disease when we poisoned the food chain
The EU ban on british beef exports to the EU and the American ban on imports to the USA, because of BSE, were introduced in 1996. The EU restrictions were gradually relaxed over a decade or so, while I think it was only about 18 months ago the USA again accepted the import of british beef.
Because of BSE, China banned the import of british beef in 1998 and only lifted the ban in 2018, but following a few new BSE cases in the UK during 2018 and 2019, China didn't actually ever start importing british beef again, so wary were they.
A new case of BSE in Somerset during 2021, prompted the Chinese to re-introduce some partial restrictions on the import of british beef, so they probably still haven't started importing any british beef yet.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0
