BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

Stevo_666

So few self consessed lefties on here but plenty people jumping in to defend Labour Makes you wonder...

briantrumpet

Stevo_666 said:

So few self consessed lefties on here but plenty people jumping in to defend Labour Makes you wonder...

Your salesmanship for voting Tory is going to need a little more than that. Go on, try being positive about the Tories and their record and policies... anything will do. Persuade us.

If you can' persuade the reasonably well-off professionals most of the posters on CS seem to be, then it's going to be even harder for the Tory party to persuade the average voter in the country they've shafted right royally.

Pross

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

To be fair you can see the case for Labour being bad for business after the stratospheric improvements business owners and the wider economy have benefitted from over the past 13 years of Tory Government and especially the last 7 years.

I’m really struggling to understand how anyone can think things will be made worse and I’m certainly prepared to take that chance.

Sounds like turkeys voting for Christmas to me.

I’m really struggling to think what they could do worse than the current lot. I’ve never voted Labour in my life in any kind of election but feel there is nothing to lose in giving them a try.

briantrumpet

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

To be fair you can see the case for Labour being bad for business after the stratospheric improvements business owners and the wider economy have benefitted from over the past 13 years of Tory Government and especially the last 7 years.

I’m really struggling to understand how anyone can think things will be made worse and I’m certainly prepared to take that chance.

Sounds like turkeys voting for Christmas to me.

I’m really struggling to think what they could do worse than the current lot. I’ve never voted Labour in my life in any kind of election but feel there is nothing to lose in giving them a try.

In Stevo's eyes that makes you a closet lifelong lefty, I suspect.

super_davo

It's a choice between centre left and nutcase right, I don't think you need to be "a lefty" to align closer to Labour ATM. The country didn't implode under Blair / Brown & it probably won't under Starmer.

But it's come very close to under this bunch of charlatans.

I would argue that if you actually want a party that stands for the things you think the Tories do in the future, like small state policies, the best thing to happen would be electoral anhilation for this lot, an inquest, and fresh blood. Might take some time though.

wallace_and_gromit

super_davo said:

It's a choice between centre left and nutcase right, I don't think you need to be "a lefty" to align closer to Labour ATM. The country didn't implode under Blair / Brown & it probably won't under Starmer.

Excellently put. I voted Tory up to 2017, and though socially liberal, not even my worst enemy would accuse me of being "a lefty". I defected from 2019 onwards, in the hope of some intelligence / integrity ousting the Johnson regime, so that the country could be competently governed with a pragmatic rather than ideological version of Brexit. Ideally, this would be by a "Lib Dem" type party, but not the Lib Dems in the UK, as that seems to be the home for warm and cuddly nutters. Such nutters are less malign than the Tory nutters, but nutters are nutters and they shouldn't be encouraged.

This only leaves Labour, who aren't really my cup of tea, but they at least offer the hope of competent government with Starmer and Reeves prominent and the nutters seemingly under control. Sunak is ploughing something of a lone furrow re personal competence in the Tory party (Hunt may also qualify) but he's held hostage by obvious lunatics like Braverman so there's only so much he can do.

pblakeney

That Hunt is now a hope for competence is very telling.

wallace_and_gromit

pblakeney said:

That Hunt is now a hope for competence is very telling.

In the land of blind giants, the one-eyed pygmy is King.

Jezyboy

wallace_and_gromit said:

super_davo said:

It's a choice between centre left and nutcase right, I don't think you need to be "a lefty" to align closer to Labour ATM. The country didn't implode under Blair / Brown & it probably won't under Starmer.

Excellently put. I voted Tory up to 2017, and though socially liberal, not even my worst enemy would accuse me of being "a lefty". I defected from 2019 onwards, in the hope of some intelligence / integrity ousting the Johnson regime, so that the country could be competently governed with a pragmatic rather than ideological version of Brexit. Ideally, this would be by a "Lib Dem" type party, but not the Lib Dems in the UK, as that seems to be the home for warm and cuddly nutters. Such nutters are less malign than the Tory nutters, but nutters are nutters and they shouldn't be encouraged.

This only leaves Labour, who aren't really my cup of tea, but they at least offer the hope of competent government with Starmer and Reeves prominent and the nutters seemingly under control. Sunak is ploughing something of a lone furrow re personal competence in the Tory party (Hunt may also qualify) but he's held hostage by obvious lunatics like Braverman so there's only so much he can do.

I find Sunak interesting as he's managed to build this image as dull and competent, but he's a long term supporter of Brexit and is more than happy to have Suella in his cabinet.

briantrumpet

Jezyboy said:

wallace_and_gromit said:

super_davo said:

It's a choice between centre left and nutcase right, I don't think you need to be "a lefty" to align closer to Labour ATM. The country didn't implode under Blair / Brown & it probably won't under Starmer.

Excellently put. I voted Tory up to 2017, and though socially liberal, not even my worst enemy would accuse me of being "a lefty". I defected from 2019 onwards, in the hope of some intelligence / integrity ousting the Johnson regime, so that the country could be competently governed with a pragmatic rather than ideological version of Brexit. Ideally, this would be by a "Lib Dem" type party, but not the Lib Dems in the UK, as that seems to be the home for warm and cuddly nutters. Such nutters are less malign than the Tory nutters, but nutters are nutters and they shouldn't be encouraged.

This only leaves Labour, who aren't really my cup of tea, but they at least offer the hope of competent government with Starmer and Reeves prominent and the nutters seemingly under control. Sunak is ploughing something of a lone furrow re personal competence in the Tory party (Hunt may also qualify) but he's held hostage by obvious lunatics like Braverman so there's only so much he can do.

I find Sunak interesting as he's managed to build this image as dull and competent, but he's a long term supporter of Brexit and is more than happy to have Suella in his cabinet.

Braverman is there as he's too weak to face down the loon wing and she's their current mascot - I'm not sure sure if he's actually 'happy' to have her there or not.

wallace_and_gromit

Jezyboy said:

wallace_and_gromit said:

super_davo said:

It's a choice between centre left and nutcase right, I don't think you need to be "a lefty" to align closer to Labour ATM. The country didn't implode under Blair / Brown & it probably won't under Starmer.

Excellently put. I voted Tory up to 2017, and though socially liberal, not even my worst enemy would accuse me of being "a lefty". I defected from 2019 onwards, in the hope of some intelligence / integrity ousting the Johnson regime, so that the country could be competently governed with a pragmatic rather than ideological version of Brexit. Ideally, this would be by a "Lib Dem" type party, but not the Lib Dems in the UK, as that seems to be the home for warm and cuddly nutters. Such nutters are less malign than the Tory nutters, but nutters are nutters and they shouldn't be encouraged.

This only leaves Labour, who aren't really my cup of tea, but they at least offer the hope of competent government with Starmer and Reeves prominent and the nutters seemingly under control. Sunak is ploughing something of a lone furrow re personal competence in the Tory party (Hunt may also qualify) but he's held hostage by obvious lunatics like Braverman so there's only so much he can do.

I find Sunak interesting as he's managed to build this image as dull and competent, but he's a long term supporter of Brexit and is more than happy to have Suella in his cabinet.

Ironically, Sunak is the only genuine Brexiter of the last 4 Tory PMs. (Of the other 3, May and Truss were remainers who converted post-referendum and Johnson converted at the point pre-referendum where he found it personally expedient. Though I doubt he was pro-remain for reasons other than what he thought was best for him.) From what I've read, Sunak genuinely believes in the benefits of being able to act unilaterally, having lived and worked extensively in the US, and doesn't see the EU as the "enemy" and isn't bothered about immigration. (His government is remarkably generous with visas, that's for sure!)

I'm speculating that in an ideal world for Sunak, Braverman wouldn't be anywhere near Cabinet, which instead would be full of banking types, as that is what he knows best. But the world isn't ideal for him as many of his MPs are lunatics and most of the Tory membership appears to be insane. Braverman is quite happy to "go over the top" to appease the membership re "small boats" etc. even at the cost of her personal credibility and integrity (from the perspective of normal people, if not the Tory membership) so in that respect she's quite handy for Sunak to have around.

briantrumpet

The Telegraph noting the shift in where things are happening... given that they originally backed Remain, is it inconceivable that they might revert to pragmatism, even if the damage has already been done?

https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1659091124454039556

rick_chasey

I have been saying this for a while.

Paris is the location du jour

pblakeney

wallace_and_gromit said:

pblakeney said:

That Hunt is now a hope for competence is very telling.

In the land of blind giants, the one-eyed pygmy is King.

Precisely.

briantrumpet

rick_chasey said:

I have been saying this for a while.

Paris is the location du jour

Indeed, but I was more interested in the Telegraph reporting this neutrally, given their history of EUphobia.

rick_chasey

briantrumpet said:

rick_chasey said:

I have been saying this for a while.

Paris is the location du jour

Indeed, but I was more interested in the Telegraph reporting this neutrally, given their history of EUphobia.

Worth remembering a trading seat is roughly a £500,000 seat per trader per year, once you factor in the cost of the trader and the associated infrastructure.

So Barclays moving 200 trader is roughly moving £100m out of the UK economy into France.

wallace_and_gromit

rick_chasey said:

briantrumpet said:

rick_chasey said:

I have been saying this for a while.

Paris is the location du jour

Indeed, but I was more interested in the Telegraph reporting this neutrally, given their history of EUphobia.

Worth remembering a trading seat is roughly a £500,000 seat per trader per year, once you factor in the cost of the trader and the associated infrastructure.

So Barclays moving 200 trader is roughly moving £100m out of the UK economy into France.

Ironic really that Paris is the "go to" place for financial market traders these days when it's not so very long ago that the French government view was that currency speculators should be guillotined!

Stevo_666

briantrumpet said:

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

To be fair you can see the case for Labour being bad for business after the stratospheric improvements business owners and the wider economy have benefitted from over the past 13 years of Tory Government and especially the last 7 years.

I’m really struggling to understand how anyone can think things will be made worse and I’m certainly prepared to take that chance.

Sounds like turkeys voting for Christmas to me.

I’m really struggling to think what they could do worse than the current lot. I’ve never voted Labour in my life in any kind of election but feel there is nothing to lose in giving them a try.

In Stevo's eyes that makes you a closet lifelong lefty, I suspect.

No, just unwise.

Stevo_666

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

So few self consessed lefties on here but plenty people jumping in to defend Labour Makes you wonder...

Your salesmanship for voting Tory is going to need a little more than that. Go on, try being positive about the Tories and their record and policies... anything will do. Persuade us.

If you can' persuade the reasonably well-off professionals most of the posters on CS seem to be, then it's going to be even harder for the Tory party to persuade the average voter in the country they've shafted right royally.

The point is about why people like you are so quick defend Labour. I'm flushing out the closet lefties I reckon

kingstongraham

It's relevant for this thread that the only thing this government have delivered is Brexit, so if you think that's gone well, great, good for you.

TheBigBean

kingstongraham said:

It's relevant for this thread that the only thing this government have delivered is Brexit, so if you think that's gone well, great, good for you.

If you want to be fair, they have also delivered a response to the covid pandemic. You can argue about whether it was a good response, but it has taken up the government's time.

morstar

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

It's relevant for this thread that the only thing this government have delivered is Brexit, so if you think that's gone well, great, good for you.

If you want to be fair, they have also delivered a response to the covid pandemic. You can argue about whether it was a good response, but it has taken up the government's time.

Fair point. But also fair to say 2020 was 10 years after they entered a coalition government and 5 years after forming a majority government (or three).

*edited to correct timeline

rick_chasey

They delivered austerity.

TheBigBean

morstar said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

It's relevant for this thread that the only thing this government have delivered is Brexit, so if you think that's gone well, great, good for you.

If you want to be fair, they have also delivered a response to the covid pandemic. You can argue about whether it was a good response, but it has taken up the government's time.

Fair point. But also fair to say 2020 was 10 years after they entered a coalition government and a further 5 years after forming a majority government (or three).

If you want to look at that length of period, then they have delivered high tuition fees, abolition of PCTs, increased tax free inheritance to £1m etc. This is the wrong thread for that though.

briantrumpet

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

So few self consessed lefties on here but plenty people jumping in to defend Labour Makes you wonder...

Your salesmanship for voting Tory is going to need a little more than that. Go on, try being positive about the Tories and their record and policies... anything will do. Persuade us.

If you can' persuade the reasonably well-off professionals most of the posters on CS seem to be, then it's going to be even harder for the Tory party to persuade the average voter in the country they've shafted right royally.

The point is about why people like you are so quick defend Labour. I'm flushing out the closet lefties I reckon

Saying that we don't think they will be as totally shït as the Tories have been ain't a great 'defence'. As it is, in East Devon, I suspect I'll be voting Lib Dem, if they've got the best chance of booting out the Tory.

I'm more amused that you've not even tried to give us positive reasons to vote Conservative.

Incidentally, the 'Guess the author' quiz I set was true-blue loopy Allister Heath in the Telegraph, and even he's given up on the Tories, so I probably ought to give you credit for being one of the last men standing proudly with your blue rosette.

kingstongraham

briantrumpet said:

Incidentally, the 'Guess the author' quiz I set was true-blue loopy Allister Heath in the Telegraph, and even he's given up on the Tories, so I probably ought to give you credit for being one of the last men standing proudly with your blue rosette.

To be fair to Allister Heath, the rest of that article is the usual rage against the woke nonsense.

orraloon

kingstongraham said:

To be fair to Allister Heath, the rest of that article is the usual rage against the woke nonsense.

Would that include the woke flag-waving Nat-Cs fanbois on t'other thread?

rjsterry

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

So few self consessed lefties on here but plenty people jumping in to defend Labour Makes you wonder...

Your salesmanship for voting Tory is going to need a little more than that. Go on, try being positive about the Tories and their record and policies... anything will do. Persuade us.

If you can' persuade the reasonably well-off professionals most of the posters on CS seem to be, then it's going to be even harder for the Tory party to persuade the average voter in the country they've shafted right royally.

The point is about why people like you are so quick defend Labour. I'm flushing out the closet lefties I reckon

Saying that we don't think they will be as totally shït as the Tories have been ain't a great 'defence'. As it is, in East Devon, I suspect I'll be voting Lib Dem, if they've got the best chance of booting out the Tory.

I'm more amused that you've not even tried to give us positive reasons to vote Conservative.

Incidentally, the 'Guess the author' quiz I set was true-blue loopy Allister Heath in the Telegraph, and even he's given up on the Tories, so I probably ought to give you credit for being one of the last men standing proudly with your blue rosette.

Man clings to sinking boat because the other boat he can see is painted red.

briantrumpet

rjsterry said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

So few self consessed lefties on here but plenty people jumping in to defend Labour Makes you wonder...

Your salesmanship for voting Tory is going to need a little more than that. Go on, try being positive about the Tories and their record and policies... anything will do. Persuade us.

If you can' persuade the reasonably well-off professionals most of the posters on CS seem to be, then it's going to be even harder for the Tory party to persuade the average voter in the country they've shafted right royally.

The point is about why people like you are so quick defend Labour. I'm flushing out the closet lefties I reckon

Saying that we don't think they will be as totally shït as the Tories have been ain't a great 'defence'. As it is, in East Devon, I suspect I'll be voting Lib Dem, if they've got the best chance of booting out the Tory.

I'm more amused that you've not even tried to give us positive reasons to vote Conservative.

Incidentally, the 'Guess the author' quiz I set was true-blue loopy Allister Heath in the Telegraph, and even he's given up on the Tories, so I probably ought to give you credit for being one of the last men standing proudly with your blue rosette.

Man clings to sinking boat because the other boat he can see is painted red.

Actually, if he looked carefully at that other boat, he'd find several bits of blue, as the person with his hand on the rudder doesn't want to scare off people with erythrophobia from jumping on board.

Stevo_666

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

It's relevant for this thread that the only thing this government have delivered is Brexit, so if you think that's gone well, great, good for you.

If you want to be fair, they have also delivered a response to the covid pandemic. You can argue about whether it was a good response, but it has taken up the government's time.

And dealt with the war in Ukraine. There are more important current matters than Brexit, as I've said before.