BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Events will always come along. Let's say that Brexit is the thing they promised to deliver and have delivered, then.
If you're all happy with what they've done there, fair enough.0 -
And you haven't given me any positive reasons to vote Labour or any fringe party; your only rationale is 'they're not tories'. Consider me unconvinced.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
The point is about why people like you are so quick defend Labour. I'm flushing out the closet lefties I reckonbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:So few self consessed lefties on here but plenty people jumping in to defend Labour
Makes you wonder...
Your salesmanship for voting Tory is going to need a little more than that. Go on, try being positive about the Tories and their record and policies... anything will do. Persuade us.
If you can' persuade the reasonably well-off professionals most of the posters on CS seem to be, then it's going to be even harder for the Tory party to persuade the average voter in the country they've shafted right royally.
Saying that we don't think they will be as totally shït as the Tories have been ain't a great 'defence'. As it is, in East Devon, I suspect I'll be voting Lib Dem, if they've got the best chance of booting out the Tory.
I'm more amused that you've not even tried to give us positive reasons to vote Conservative.
Incidentally, the 'Guess the author' quiz I set was true-blue loopy Allister Heath in the Telegraph, and even he's given up on the Tories, so I probably ought to give you credit for being one of the last men standing proudly with your blue rosette.
That said, I have a pretty feeling that if Labour get in, they will try to shaft me."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
Are they anything like Saltire waving SNP fanboys?orraloon said:
Would that include the woke flag-waving Nat-Cs fanbois on t'other thread?kingstongraham said:
To be fair to Allister Heath, the rest of that article is the usual rage against the woke nonsense."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
How specifically do you think they will try and shaft you?Stevo_666 said:
And you haven't given me any positive reasons to vote Labour or any fringe party; your only rationale is 'they're not tories'. Consider me unconvinced.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
The point is about why people like you are so quick defend Labour. I'm flushing out the closet lefties I reckonbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:So few self consessed lefties on here but plenty people jumping in to defend Labour
Makes you wonder...
Your salesmanship for voting Tory is going to need a little more than that. Go on, try being positive about the Tories and their record and policies... anything will do. Persuade us.
If you can' persuade the reasonably well-off professionals most of the posters on CS seem to be, then it's going to be even harder for the Tory party to persuade the average voter in the country they've shafted right royally.
Saying that we don't think they will be as totally shït as the Tories have been ain't a great 'defence'. As it is, in East Devon, I suspect I'll be voting Lib Dem, if they've got the best chance of booting out the Tory.
I'm more amused that you've not even tried to give us positive reasons to vote Conservative.
Incidentally, the 'Guess the author' quiz I set was true-blue loopy Allister Heath in the Telegraph, and even he's given up on the Tories, so I probably ought to give you credit for being one of the last men standing proudly with your blue rosette.
That said, I have a pretty feeling that if Labour get in, they will try to shaft me.
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Stevo_666 said:
And you haven't given me any positive reasons to vote Labour or any fringe party; your only rationale is 'they're not tories'. Consider me unconvinced.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
The point is about why people like you are so quick defend Labour. I'm flushing out the closet lefties I reckonbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:So few self consessed lefties on here but plenty people jumping in to defend Labour
Makes you wonder...
Your salesmanship for voting Tory is going to need a little more than that. Go on, try being positive about the Tories and their record and policies... anything will do. Persuade us.
If you can' persuade the reasonably well-off professionals most of the posters on CS seem to be, then it's going to be even harder for the Tory party to persuade the average voter in the country they've shafted right royally.
Saying that we don't think they will be as totally shït as the Tories have been ain't a great 'defence'. As it is, in East Devon, I suspect I'll be voting Lib Dem, if they've got the best chance of booting out the Tory.
I'm more amused that you've not even tried to give us positive reasons to vote Conservative.
Incidentally, the 'Guess the author' quiz I set was true-blue loopy Allister Heath in the Telegraph, and even he's given up on the Tories, so I probably ought to give you credit for being one of the last men standing proudly with your blue rosette.
That said, I have a pretty feeling that if Labour get in, they will try to shaft me.
I've done just that over on the appropriate thread, even though getting rid of the current Tories is enough for me as a first step. I'm not sure if you've taken it in, but I do want a decent & competent Tory Party to re-emerge: unlike you, I value the contribution of a good opposition that can both hold a government to account and to present a viable alternative when, as is inevitable, the ruling party eventually paddles itself up shït creek.1 -
I take it all back. Brexit is a triumph, I think we must all agree.
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you can actually see the cogs almost turning - Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Probably tax. They have been pretty vague on their tax polices so far, as presumably they don't want to alarm people.surrey_commuter said:
How specifically do you think they will try and shaft you?Stevo_666 said:
And you haven't given me any positive reasons to vote Labour or any fringe party; your only rationale is 'they're not tories'. Consider me unconvinced.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
The point is about why people like you are so quick defend Labour. I'm flushing out the closet lefties I reckonbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:So few self consessed lefties on here but plenty people jumping in to defend Labour
Makes you wonder...
Your salesmanship for voting Tory is going to need a little more than that. Go on, try being positive about the Tories and their record and policies... anything will do. Persuade us.
If you can' persuade the reasonably well-off professionals most of the posters on CS seem to be, then it's going to be even harder for the Tory party to persuade the average voter in the country they've shafted right royally.
Saying that we don't think they will be as totally shït as the Tories have been ain't a great 'defence'. As it is, in East Devon, I suspect I'll be voting Lib Dem, if they've got the best chance of booting out the Tory.
I'm more amused that you've not even tried to give us positive reasons to vote Conservative.
Incidentally, the 'Guess the author' quiz I set was true-blue loopy Allister Heath in the Telegraph, and even he's given up on the Tories, so I probably ought to give you credit for being one of the last men standing proudly with your blue rosette.
That said, I have a pretty feeling that if Labour get in, they will try to shaft me."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I would prefer a competent Labour party to be in opposition.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
And you haven't given me any positive reasons to vote Labour or any fringe party; your only rationale is 'they're not tories'. Consider me unconvinced.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
The point is about why people like you are so quick defend Labour. I'm flushing out the closet lefties I reckonbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:So few self consessed lefties on here but plenty people jumping in to defend Labour
Makes you wonder...
Your salesmanship for voting Tory is going to need a little more than that. Go on, try being positive about the Tories and their record and policies... anything will do. Persuade us.
If you can' persuade the reasonably well-off professionals most of the posters on CS seem to be, then it's going to be even harder for the Tory party to persuade the average voter in the country they've shafted right royally.
Saying that we don't think they will be as totally shït as the Tories have been ain't a great 'defence'. As it is, in East Devon, I suspect I'll be voting Lib Dem, if they've got the best chance of booting out the Tory.
I'm more amused that you've not even tried to give us positive reasons to vote Conservative.
Incidentally, the 'Guess the author' quiz I set was true-blue loopy Allister Heath in the Telegraph, and even he's given up on the Tories, so I probably ought to give you credit for being one of the last men standing proudly with your blue rosette.
That said, I have a pretty feeling that if Labour get in, they will try to shaft me.
I've done just that over on the appropriate thread, even though getting rid of the current Tories is enough for me as a first step. I'm not sure if you've taken it in, but I do want a decent & competent Tory Party to re-emerge: unlike you, I value the contribution of a good opposition that can both hold a government to account and to present a viable alternative when, as is inevitable, the ruling party eventually paddles itself up shït creek."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
And yet you made a willy waving thread boasting about how you tried to make them as incompetent as possible...0
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Well, it appears that 'Brexit' isn't yet entirely over, if it's being suggested we need to renegotiate parts of it...0
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The most important word in my post above is 'opposition', which was the point of the thread. I started it nearly 8 years ago and you still don't get it?Jezyboy said:And yet you made a willy waving thread boasting about how you tried to make them as incompetent as possible...
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Obviously. Others would prioritise competence over political flavour. The tax regime affects different people differently. 'Success' means different things for different people - certainly not just financial. Proportionally, I am getting rinsed by the current government so the prospect of Labour taxing me even more seems less of a threat. That will be different for others. The draft proposals on employment law from Labour are much less appealing. We already put considerable effort into making our business somewhere people want to work but if you're an employee I imagine some of that sounds great.Stevo_666 said:
I would prefer a competent Labour party to be in opposition.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
And you haven't given me any positive reasons to vote Labour or any fringe party; your only rationale is 'they're not tories'. Consider me unconvinced.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
The point is about why people like you are so quick defend Labour. I'm flushing out the closet lefties I reckonbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:So few self consessed lefties on here but plenty people jumping in to defend Labour
Makes you wonder...
Your salesmanship for voting Tory is going to need a little more than that. Go on, try being positive about the Tories and their record and policies... anything will do. Persuade us.
If you can' persuade the reasonably well-off professionals most of the posters on CS seem to be, then it's going to be even harder for the Tory party to persuade the average voter in the country they've shafted right royally.
Saying that we don't think they will be as totally shït as the Tories have been ain't a great 'defence'. As it is, in East Devon, I suspect I'll be voting Lib Dem, if they've got the best chance of booting out the Tory.
I'm more amused that you've not even tried to give us positive reasons to vote Conservative.
Incidentally, the 'Guess the author' quiz I set was true-blue loopy Allister Heath in the Telegraph, and even he's given up on the Tories, so I probably ought to give you credit for being one of the last men standing proudly with your blue rosette.
That said, I have a pretty feeling that if Labour get in, they will try to shaft me.
I've done just that over on the appropriate thread, even though getting rid of the current Tories is enough for me as a first step. I'm not sure if you've taken it in, but I do want a decent & competent Tory Party to re-emerge: unlike you, I value the contribution of a good opposition that can both hold a government to account and to present a viable alternative when, as is inevitable, the ruling party eventually paddles itself up shït creek.
Fundamentally, I think the current Conservative party have become more interested in arguing with itself than governing, and that is reason enough to make way for someone more hungry for governance.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Talking of rinsing, if Labour reinstate the lifetime pension limit, it will cost me a six figure sum in tax if they are in power when I retire. And that's before anything else they are likely to come up with on income tax or wealth taxes. They can FRO.rjsterry said:
Obviously. Others would prioritise competence over political flavour. The tax regime affects different people differently. 'Success' means different things for different people - certainly not just financial. Proportionally, I am getting rinsed by the current government so the prospect of Labour taxing me even more seems less of a threat. That will be different for others. The draft proposals on employment law from Labour are much less appealing. We already put considerable effort into making our business somewhere people want to work but if you're an employee I imagine some of that sounds great.Stevo_666 said:
I would prefer a competent Labour party to be in opposition.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
And you haven't given me any positive reasons to vote Labour or any fringe party; your only rationale is 'they're not tories'. Consider me unconvinced.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
The point is about why people like you are so quick defend Labour. I'm flushing out the closet lefties I reckonbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:So few self consessed lefties on here but plenty people jumping in to defend Labour
Makes you wonder...
Your salesmanship for voting Tory is going to need a little more than that. Go on, try being positive about the Tories and their record and policies... anything will do. Persuade us.
If you can' persuade the reasonably well-off professionals most of the posters on CS seem to be, then it's going to be even harder for the Tory party to persuade the average voter in the country they've shafted right royally.
Saying that we don't think they will be as totally shït as the Tories have been ain't a great 'defence'. As it is, in East Devon, I suspect I'll be voting Lib Dem, if they've got the best chance of booting out the Tory.
I'm more amused that you've not even tried to give us positive reasons to vote Conservative.
Incidentally, the 'Guess the author' quiz I set was true-blue loopy Allister Heath in the Telegraph, and even he's given up on the Tories, so I probably ought to give you credit for being one of the last men standing proudly with your blue rosette.
That said, I have a pretty feeling that if Labour get in, they will try to shaft me.
I've done just that over on the appropriate thread, even though getting rid of the current Tories is enough for me as a first step. I'm not sure if you've taken it in, but I do want a decent & competent Tory Party to re-emerge: unlike you, I value the contribution of a good opposition that can both hold a government to account and to present a viable alternative when, as is inevitable, the ruling party eventually paddles itself up shït creek.
Fundamentally, I think the current Conservative party have become more interested in arguing with itself than governing, and that is reason enough to make way for someone more hungry for governance."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
That will be the lifetime pension limit the Tory government halved thereby bringing people like you into scope, rather than the multi-millionaires it was designed to catch?
The country didn't collapse when Blair & Brown were in charge, indeed the overall tax burden was lower than it is today (plus you could always do phased crystallisation to spread the burden over time)0 -
The current position is that there is no limit. What matters is the position when I retire and given Labour's stated intent, they represent a clear danger to my future finances, regardless of how long it might be spread over.super_davo said:That will be the lifetime pension limit the Tory government halved thereby bringing people like you into scope, rather than the multi-millionaires it was designed to catch?
The country didn't collapse when Blair & Brown were in charge, indeed the overall tax burden was lower than it is today (plus you could always do phased crystallisation to spread the burden over time)
And as i already mentioned, it is likely not the only problem they will create. The difference between the parties now is that while the tax burden is currently too high IMO, the Tories recognise that it needs to be cut (see recent statements by Hunt): whereas Labour thinks that it needs to go higher."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Quite amusing to see Andrew Neil retweeting himself to try to explain the ratio on the original tweet.
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It was only removed 6 weeks ago so we’re you happy when the Tories we’re going to rinse you or have you suddenly massively increased your pension pot despite knowing an incoming Labour government was likely?Stevo_666 said:
Talking of rinsing, if Labour reinstate the lifetime pension limit, it will cost me a six figure sum in tax if they are in power when I retire. And that's before anything else they are likely to come up with on income tax or wealth taxes. They can FRO.rjsterry said:
Obviously. Others would prioritise competence over political flavour. The tax regime affects different people differently. 'Success' means different things for different people - certainly not just financial. Proportionally, I am getting rinsed by the current government so the prospect of Labour taxing me even more seems less of a threat. That will be different for others. The draft proposals on employment law from Labour are much less appealing. We already put considerable effort into making our business somewhere people want to work but if you're an employee I imagine some of that sounds great.Stevo_666 said:
I would prefer a competent Labour party to be in opposition.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
And you haven't given me any positive reasons to vote Labour or any fringe party; your only rationale is 'they're not tories'. Consider me unconvinced.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
The point is about why people like you are so quick defend Labour. I'm flushing out the closet lefties I reckonbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:So few self consessed lefties on here but plenty people jumping in to defend Labour
Makes you wonder...
Your salesmanship for voting Tory is going to need a little more than that. Go on, try being positive about the Tories and their record and policies... anything will do. Persuade us.
If you can' persuade the reasonably well-off professionals most of the posters on CS seem to be, then it's going to be even harder for the Tory party to persuade the average voter in the country they've shafted right royally.
Saying that we don't think they will be as totally shït as the Tories have been ain't a great 'defence'. As it is, in East Devon, I suspect I'll be voting Lib Dem, if they've got the best chance of booting out the Tory.
I'm more amused that you've not even tried to give us positive reasons to vote Conservative.
Incidentally, the 'Guess the author' quiz I set was true-blue loopy Allister Heath in the Telegraph, and even he's given up on the Tories, so I probably ought to give you credit for being one of the last men standing proudly with your blue rosette.
That said, I have a pretty feeling that if Labour get in, they will try to shaft me.
I've done just that over on the appropriate thread, even though getting rid of the current Tories is enough for me as a first step. I'm not sure if you've taken it in, but I do want a decent & competent Tory Party to re-emerge: unlike you, I value the contribution of a good opposition that can both hold a government to account and to present a viable alternative when, as is inevitable, the ruling party eventually paddles itself up shït creek.
Fundamentally, I think the current Conservative party have become more interested in arguing with itself than governing, and that is reason enough to make way for someone more hungry for governance.0 -
No, it was an issue, but not any more. Labour is the clear threat as they have stated that they will reintroduce it. And as mentioned, that is unlikely to be the only thing they do to damage my prosperity. But what do you expect from the enemy of success?Pross said:
It was only removed 6 weeks ago so we’re you happy when the Tories we’re going to rinse you or have you suddenly massively increased your pension pot despite knowing an incoming Labour government was likely?Stevo_666 said:
Talking of rinsing, if Labour reinstate the lifetime pension limit, it will cost me a six figure sum in tax if they are in power when I retire. And that's before anything else they are likely to come up with on income tax or wealth taxes. They can FRO.rjsterry said:
Obviously. Others would prioritise competence over political flavour. The tax regime affects different people differently. 'Success' means different things for different people - certainly not just financial. Proportionally, I am getting rinsed by the current government so the prospect of Labour taxing me even more seems less of a threat. That will be different for others. The draft proposals on employment law from Labour are much less appealing. We already put considerable effort into making our business somewhere people want to work but if you're an employee I imagine some of that sounds great.Stevo_666 said:
I would prefer a competent Labour party to be in opposition.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
And you haven't given me any positive reasons to vote Labour or any fringe party; your only rationale is 'they're not tories'. Consider me unconvinced.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
The point is about why people like you are so quick defend Labour. I'm flushing out the closet lefties I reckonbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:So few self consessed lefties on here but plenty people jumping in to defend Labour
Makes you wonder...
Your salesmanship for voting Tory is going to need a little more than that. Go on, try being positive about the Tories and their record and policies... anything will do. Persuade us.
If you can' persuade the reasonably well-off professionals most of the posters on CS seem to be, then it's going to be even harder for the Tory party to persuade the average voter in the country they've shafted right royally.
Saying that we don't think they will be as totally shït as the Tories have been ain't a great 'defence'. As it is, in East Devon, I suspect I'll be voting Lib Dem, if they've got the best chance of booting out the Tory.
I'm more amused that you've not even tried to give us positive reasons to vote Conservative.
Incidentally, the 'Guess the author' quiz I set was true-blue loopy Allister Heath in the Telegraph, and even he's given up on the Tories, so I probably ought to give you credit for being one of the last men standing proudly with your blue rosette.
That said, I have a pretty feeling that if Labour get in, they will try to shaft me.
I've done just that over on the appropriate thread, even though getting rid of the current Tories is enough for me as a first step. I'm not sure if you've taken it in, but I do want a decent & competent Tory Party to re-emerge: unlike you, I value the contribution of a good opposition that can both hold a government to account and to present a viable alternative when, as is inevitable, the ruling party eventually paddles itself up shït creek.
Fundamentally, I think the current Conservative party have become more interested in arguing with itself than governing, and that is reason enough to make way for someone more hungry for governance."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
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What's new?briantrumpet said:War on success.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo_666 said:
What's new?briantrumpet said:War on success.
Calling everything a 'war' on something.
Did the country do OK under Blair?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/07/business_blair_and_the_uk_economy/html/1.stmEconomic growth was unspectacular, but steady - the longest uninterrupted period of growth in 200 years.
A strong world economy, rising immigration and public spending helped to boost growth.
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How is the Blair administration (which came into power over quarter of a century ago) relevant to the current debate about the danger that the current Labour Party poses?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
What's new?briantrumpet said:War on success.
Calling everything a 'war' on something.
Did the country do OK under Blair?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/07/business_blair_and_the_uk_economy/html/1.stmEconomic growth was unspectacular, but steady - the longest uninterrupted period of growth in 200 years.
A strong world economy, rising immigration and public spending helped to boost growth."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo_666 said:
How is the Blair administration (which came into power over quarter of a century ago) relevant to the current debate about the danger that the current Labour Party poses?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
What's new?briantrumpet said:War on success.
Calling everything a 'war' on something.
Did the country do OK under Blair?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/07/business_blair_and_the_uk_economy/html/1.stmEconomic growth was unspectacular, but steady - the longest uninterrupted period of growth in 200 years.
A strong world economy, rising immigration and public spending helped to boost growth.
What other evidence have you got to back up your claim that Starmer would be the "enemy of success"? I was merely pointing out that the last Labour administration wasn't that, and it strikes me that Starmer is trying to emulate Blair, albeit without an ounce of charisma.0 -
It's odd that an active policy wasn't enough of an issue to change your vote four years ago, but the prospect of the same policy is now much more than an issue. The Conservatives have been talking about lowering taxes for years, but somehow it's never the right time. Sure they can bribe you with a tax break but there aren't nearly enough recipients to win an election, so it's a bit short-sighted as a policy.Stevo_666 said:
No, it was an issue, but not any more. Labour is the clear threat as they have stated that they will reintroduce it. And as mentioned, that is unlikely to be the only thing they do to damage my prosperity. But what do you expect from the enemy of success?Pross said:
It was only removed 6 weeks ago so we’re you happy when the Tories we’re going to rinse you or have you suddenly massively increased your pension pot despite knowing an incoming Labour government was likely?Stevo_666 said:
Talking of rinsing, if Labour reinstate the lifetime pension limit, it will cost me a six figure sum in tax if they are in power when I retire. And that's before anything else they are likely to come up with on income tax or wealth taxes. They can FRO.rjsterry said:
Obviously. Others would prioritise competence over political flavour. The tax regime affects different people differently. 'Success' means different things for different people - certainly not just financial. Proportionally, I am getting rinsed by the current government so the prospect of Labour taxing me even more seems less of a threat. That will be different for others. The draft proposals on employment law from Labour are much less appealing. We already put considerable effort into making our business somewhere people want to work but if you're an employee I imagine some of that sounds great.Stevo_666 said:
I would prefer a competent Labour party to be in opposition.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
And you haven't given me any positive reasons to vote Labour or any fringe party; your only rationale is 'they're not tories'. Consider me unconvinced.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
The point is about why people like you are so quick defend Labour. I'm flushing out the closet lefties I reckonbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:So few self consessed lefties on here but plenty people jumping in to defend Labour
Makes you wonder...
Your salesmanship for voting Tory is going to need a little more than that. Go on, try being positive about the Tories and their record and policies... anything will do. Persuade us.
If you can' persuade the reasonably well-off professionals most of the posters on CS seem to be, then it's going to be even harder for the Tory party to persuade the average voter in the country they've shafted right royally.
Saying that we don't think they will be as totally shït as the Tories have been ain't a great 'defence'. As it is, in East Devon, I suspect I'll be voting Lib Dem, if they've got the best chance of booting out the Tory.
I'm more amused that you've not even tried to give us positive reasons to vote Conservative.
Incidentally, the 'Guess the author' quiz I set was true-blue loopy Allister Heath in the Telegraph, and even he's given up on the Tories, so I probably ought to give you credit for being one of the last men standing proudly with your blue rosette.
That said, I have a pretty feeling that if Labour get in, they will try to shaft me.
I've done just that over on the appropriate thread, even though getting rid of the current Tories is enough for me as a first step. I'm not sure if you've taken it in, but I do want a decent & competent Tory Party to re-emerge: unlike you, I value the contribution of a good opposition that can both hold a government to account and to present a viable alternative when, as is inevitable, the ruling party eventually paddles itself up shït creek.
Fundamentally, I think the current Conservative party have become more interested in arguing with itself than governing, and that is reason enough to make way for someone more hungry for governance.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
The key thing for me is that there are so many actions and policies that serve no purpose other than to gain some pocket of votes, whilst being utterly incompatible with the big picture.
Cut taxes - how does that stand up Vs the triple lock?
Go for growth? - how does that stack up Vs the quest for the purest, most isolationist form for Brexit?
Global Britain? How does that stack up breaking international agreements and talk of withdrawing from ECHR
Levelling up? Whilst that would be hard to be compatible with the small state, low tax environment they're not actually doing it, it's all talk!
This is before you even get to the inhumane, ineffective policies like hostile environment to immigration, stop the boats etc, which just smack of desperation to me.0 -
Stevo proving that Tories have just become the party of the retired or retiring.
Needs reminding the incomes of the retired are higher than those of working age on average.0 -
You didn't answer my question.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
How is the Blair administration (which came into power over quarter of a century ago) relevant to the current debate about the danger that the current Labour Party poses?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
What's new?briantrumpet said:War on success.
Calling everything a 'war' on something.
Did the country do OK under Blair?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/07/business_blair_and_the_uk_economy/html/1.stmEconomic growth was unspectacular, but steady - the longest uninterrupted period of growth in 200 years.
A strong world economy, rising immigration and public spending helped to boost growth.
What other evidence have you got to back up your claim that Starmer would be the "enemy of success"? I was merely pointing out that the last Labour administration wasn't that, and it strikes me that Starmer is trying to emulate Blair, albeit without an ounce of charisma.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I'm not retiring any time soon...and that certainly won't be the case when I retire.rick_chasey said:Stevo proving that Tories have just become the party of the retired or retiring.
Needs reminding the incomes of the retired are higher than those of working age on average.
And ironically the policy is designed to get people back into the workforce, so seems you need reminding of the reason for the policy change"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Did any party have the removal of the limit in their manifesto 4 years ago?rjsterry said:
It's odd that an active policy wasn't enough of an issue to change your vote four years ago, but the prospect of the same policy is now much more than an issue. The Conservatives have been talking about lowering taxes for years, but somehow it's never the right time. Sure they can bribe you with a tax break but there aren't nearly enough recipients to win an election, so it's a bit short-sighted as a policy.Stevo_666 said:
No, it was an issue, but not any more. Labour is the clear threat as they have stated that they will reintroduce it. And as mentioned, that is unlikely to be the only thing they do to damage my prosperity. But what do you expect from the enemy of success?Pross said:
It was only removed 6 weeks ago so we’re you happy when the Tories we’re going to rinse you or have you suddenly massively increased your pension pot despite knowing an incoming Labour government was likely?Stevo_666 said:
Talking of rinsing, if Labour reinstate the lifetime pension limit, it will cost me a six figure sum in tax if they are in power when I retire. And that's before anything else they are likely to come up with on income tax or wealth taxes. They can FRO.rjsterry said:
Obviously. Others would prioritise competence over political flavour. The tax regime affects different people differently. 'Success' means different things for different people - certainly not just financial. Proportionally, I am getting rinsed by the current government so the prospect of Labour taxing me even more seems less of a threat. That will be different for others. The draft proposals on employment law from Labour are much less appealing. We already put considerable effort into making our business somewhere people want to work but if you're an employee I imagine some of that sounds great.Stevo_666 said:
I would prefer a competent Labour party to be in opposition.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
And you haven't given me any positive reasons to vote Labour or any fringe party; your only rationale is 'they're not tories'. Consider me unconvinced.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
The point is about why people like you are so quick defend Labour. I'm flushing out the closet lefties I reckonbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:So few self consessed lefties on here but plenty people jumping in to defend Labour
Makes you wonder...
Your salesmanship for voting Tory is going to need a little more than that. Go on, try being positive about the Tories and their record and policies... anything will do. Persuade us.
If you can' persuade the reasonably well-off professionals most of the posters on CS seem to be, then it's going to be even harder for the Tory party to persuade the average voter in the country they've shafted right royally.
Saying that we don't think they will be as totally shït as the Tories have been ain't a great 'defence'. As it is, in East Devon, I suspect I'll be voting Lib Dem, if they've got the best chance of booting out the Tory.
I'm more amused that you've not even tried to give us positive reasons to vote Conservative.
Incidentally, the 'Guess the author' quiz I set was true-blue loopy Allister Heath in the Telegraph, and even he's given up on the Tories, so I probably ought to give you credit for being one of the last men standing proudly with your blue rosette.
That said, I have a pretty feeling that if Labour get in, they will try to shaft me.
I've done just that over on the appropriate thread, even though getting rid of the current Tories is enough for me as a first step. I'm not sure if you've taken it in, but I do want a decent & competent Tory Party to re-emerge: unlike you, I value the contribution of a good opposition that can both hold a government to account and to present a viable alternative when, as is inevitable, the ruling party eventually paddles itself up shït creek.
Fundamentally, I think the current Conservative party have become more interested in arguing with itself than governing, and that is reason enough to make way for someone more hungry for governance.
Look at it another way if it helps. Put yourself in my shoes, consider the pension tax issue above and ask yourself who you would vote for to best look after your future financial interests. It's not a difficult one to answer "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
