BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

ddraver

TheBigBean said:

briantrumpet said:

TheBigBean said:

briantrumpet said:

And, apologies, nicked from Twitter:

"If we were - heaven forbid - to rejoin the EU, which Brexit benefit would you miss the most?"

Which rejoin benefit would affect you the most? Relief from obsession?

Ooh, I dunno, which one to pick... easier trading with the EU and better standard of life in the UK, the ability to live and work (or retire) in EU countries without visas, the ease with which EU migrant workers can fill key roles in the UK, that kinda thing. You know, all the stuff that Thatcher banged on about, I suppose.

How many of those actually affect you?

Seriously?

easier trading with the EU - I can order stuff from the EU again and it doesnt cost a massive amount of extra money. Better in every way.

better standard of life in the UK, - Obvious...

the ability to live and work (or retire) in EU countries without visas- Obvious...

the ease with which EU migrant workers can fill key roles in the UK- We don't have a shortage ofg workers and can kickstart growth again - Or, again, just the obvious...

briantrumpet

ddraver said:

TheBigBean said:

briantrumpet said:

TheBigBean said:

briantrumpet said:

And, apologies, nicked from Twitter:

"If we were - heaven forbid - to rejoin the EU, which Brexit benefit would you miss the most?"

Which rejoin benefit would affect you the most? Relief from obsession?

Ooh, I dunno, which one to pick... easier trading with the EU and better standard of life in the UK, the ability to live and work (or retire) in EU countries without visas, the ease with which EU migrant workers can fill key roles in the UK, that kinda thing. You know, all the stuff that Thatcher banged on about, I suppose.

How many of those actually affect you?

Seriously?

easier trading with the EU - I can order stuff from the EU again and it doesnt cost a massive amount of extra money. Better in every way.

better standard of life in the UK, - Obvious...

the ability to live and work (or retire) in EU countries without visas- Obvious...

the ease with which EU migrant workers can fill key roles in the UK- We don't have a shortage ofg workers and can kickstart growth again - Or, again, just the obvious...

I can only hope that TBB's question was tongue in cheek. Whether it's trying to buy stuff from the EU, whether it's tourism and farming businesses, care agencies or hospitals unable to fill posts, whether it's my own personal liberty to spend as much time as I want where I want, if you wanted to put up barriers, you couldn't have done much better than the hard Brexit that was foisted upon us under a false prospectus. And you don't have to believe a mere provincial trumpeter on a cycling forum - there's big data out there from the real world, from every corner of the UK, from every type of business, to drive the point home. I suspect that they might be a bit obsessed about the implications of Brexit, whilst trying to stay in business, whilst the government shackles what they can do.

The whole cr4p about doing away with red tape is another gravity-denying exercise which will make everything harder: if we want to trade internationally, then standards will be insisted upon: such is the nature of international trade deals. But these denialists yet again pretend that the world will bend to the Brexiters' lunacy.

TheBigBean

I was trying to understand your obsession. I know ddraver missed out on a job/relocation, so has been directly affected. It's not clear to me how you have been directly affected beyond more paperwork for your second home.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

I was trying to understand your obsession. I know ddraver missed out on a job/relocation, so has been directly affected. It's not clear to me how you have been directly affected beyond more paperwork for your second home.

We’re all affected by the lost economic growth.

briantrumpet

TheBigBean said:

I was trying to understand your obsession. I know ddraver missed out on a job/relocation, so has been directly affected. It's not clear to me how you have been directly affected beyond more paperwork for your second home.

Fair enough. Not being able to retire to my second home easily, on the very personal level. I'm now a foreigner in my own home, whereas before I was an EU citizen. Pensions & healthcare are the two biggest (and expensive) problems. And I've just got to keep fingers crossed that the French don't do a tax raid on foreign second home owners. We'd be any easy and lucrative target. Oh, and I can't work in the EU without a work permit, even if the work is a little bit of trumpet playing.

But the obsession is way beyond my personal inconvenience. We were lied to (and all the evidence bears that out), and people bought into the lie that putting up barriers would be good for the UK. Communities that were shafted by Thatcher still obsess about Thatcher. A lot of Scottish people obsess about Scottish Independence (and how long is it since that was a thing).

It was stupid, wrong, and dishonestly bought. And I'm not going to give up my obsession about saying so, in the hope that bit by bit, or hopefully more quickly, the tide will turn in public and political opinion. That The Telegraph are admitting that it might have been a mistake is a start. But just a start. Political movements often start with anger and obsession, and the same sentiments will sustain them, even if the initial anger subsides to a degree. Though, at the moment, each time I run into a barrier which didn't exist before, the anger returns.

pangolin

So, mixed feelings then

tailwindhome

TheBigBean said:

briantrumpet said:

And, apologies, nicked from Twitter:

"If we were - heaven forbid - to rejoin the EU, which Brexit benefit would you miss the most?"

Which rejoin benefit would affect you the most? Relief from obsession?

A functioning devolved government and the possibility of escalating sectarian tensions being de-escalated.

briantrumpet

Weird, we still haven't had an answer to which Brexit benefit would be missed (other than using e-gates, which I don't think were touted in the Brexit prospectus... and, in any case, we'll get those one way or another anyway)...

orraloon

briantrumpet said:

Weird, we still haven't had an answer to which Brexit benefit would be missed (other than using e-gates, which I don't think were touted in the Brexit prospectus... and, in any case, we'll get those one way or another anyway)...

How about stopping all those blxxdy furrins comin' over 'ere, doin' all those jobs that us little Inglaanders don't want to do?

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

I was trying to understand your obsession. I know ddraver missed out on a job/relocation, so has been directly affected. It's not clear to me how you have been directly affected beyond more paperwork for your second home.

Access to ECB emergency funding would be helpful 😜😜

TheBigBean

tailwindhome said:

TheBigBean said:

briantrumpet said:

And, apologies, nicked from Twitter:

"If we were - heaven forbid - to rejoin the EU, which Brexit benefit would you miss the most?"

Which rejoin benefit would affect you the most? Relief from obsession?

A functioning devolved government and the possibility of escalating sectarian tensions being de-escalated.

Yes, I understand your view although the devolved government seems to have ceased to function for a variety of reasons in the past.

TheBigBean

briantrumpet said:

Weird, we still haven't had an answer to which Brexit benefit would be missed (other than using e-gates, which I don't think were touted in the Brexit prospectus... and, in any case, we'll get those one way or another anyway)...

I presumed you weren't actually interested in replies.

Don't you like the way that the UK government is now held accountable by the electorate and can't blame the EU? Eg energy policy.

briantrumpet

TheBigBean said:

briantrumpet said:

Weird, we still haven't had an answer to which Brexit benefit would be missed (other than using e-gates, which I don't think were touted in the Brexit prospectus... and, in any case, we'll get those one way or another anyway)...

I presumed you weren't actually interested in replies.

Don't you like the way that the UK government is now held accountable by the electorate and can't blame the EU? Eg energy policy.

OK, I'll give you that one, even if before they often blamed things on the EU that weren't their fault.

surrey_commuter

veronese68 said:

TheBigBean said:

briantrumpet said:

And, apologies, nicked from Twitter:

"If we were - heaven forbid - to rejoin the EU, which Brexit benefit would you miss the most?"

Which rejoin benefit would affect you the most? Relief from obsession?

Free trade with the EU would enable us to regain the couple of million in lost retail sales into the EU. Then we might be able to employ some staff to replace those that got laid off as a result of the lost sales.
My only consolation is that two of those that got laid off had been very proud of being pro-brexit in the run up to the vote. They got a lot quieter as reality bit. But then anyone stupid enough to vote to make business with half of our customers harder deserves everything they got.

Please tell me being a Brexshitter was part of the selection criteria

Pross

TheBigBean said:

briantrumpet said:

Weird, we still haven't had an answer to which Brexit benefit would be missed (other than using e-gates, which I don't think were touted in the Brexit prospectus... and, in any case, we'll get those one way or another anyway)...

I presumed you weren't actually interested in replies.

Don't you like the way that the UK government is now held accountable by the electorate and can't blame the EU? Eg energy policy.

They’ve still tried plenty of times.

veronese68

surrey_commuter said:

veronese68 said:

TheBigBean said:

briantrumpet said:

And, apologies, nicked from Twitter:

"If we were - heaven forbid - to rejoin the EU, which Brexit benefit would you miss the most?"

Which rejoin benefit would affect you the most? Relief from obsession?

Free trade with the EU would enable us to regain the couple of million in lost retail sales into the EU. Then we might be able to employ some staff to replace those that got laid off as a result of the lost sales.
My only consolation is that two of those that got laid off had been very proud of being pro-brexit in the run up to the vote. They got a lot quieter as reality bit. But then anyone stupid enough to vote to make business with half of our customers harder deserves everything they got.

Please tell me being a Brexshitter was part of the selection criteria

The FD did say he's love to be able to sack anyone that voted for it.
Redundancies were all done by the book, thankfully when weighing up who had to go it was pretty obvious where the dead wood was in some cases.

molteni_man

History will tell us whether Brexit worked or not… in time! I think I know what history will say.
On a personal level I have yet to see any advantages.
Travel has been much harder with more bureaucracy.
Purchasing cheap cycling kit from European firms has come to a standstill.
The bureaucracy my son is mired in trying to get a visa to work in Europe has been an absolute nightmare.
We used to welcome brilliant students from Europe to come and stay for a Semester with exchange systems, but this has dwindled to virtually nothing with the costs they have to pay to come here. Opportunities for our students have as a consequence gone and in any case they can’t stay for more than 3 months.
We have become the laughing stock of Europe and the World for the awful decisions taken. Me and my family met some brilliant European people on our walking holiday this year- like minded people from Holland, Poland, Portugal, France etc… a pleasure to mix and talk with them. Each time I apologised and said that not all of us are anti European!
On a national level I honestly can’t think of any advantages too!

ddraver

This

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMFMfHu5w/

(...and i really don't like agreeing with that dude...)

rjsterry

...

TheBigBean said:

briantrumpet said:

Weird, we still haven't had an answer to which Brexit benefit would be missed (other than using e-gates, which I don't think were touted in the Brexit prospectus... and, in any case, we'll get those one way or another anyway)...

I presumed you weren't actually interested in replies.

Don't you like the way that the UK government is now held accountable by the electorate and can't blame the EU? Eg energy policy.

Assume this is a joke. UK government is held accountable at every general election and removed if found wanting. Last I checked the government which started all this is still there and probably will be for another couple of years.

molteni_man

ddraver said:

This

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMFMfHu5w/

(...and i really don't like agreeing with that dude...)

Good link! And ditto re the dude and like you agree he is talking some sense. And this from one of their own!

heavymental

A friend has just come back from an 89 day cycle tour from Norway to Portugal. Of course, post Brexit if he'd wanted to stay a few more days he wouldn't have been able to. We're poorer in lots of ways post Brexit. Economically as well as fewer opportunities for travel and cultural, scientific and educational links. Every time I go to Europe (recently back from cycling in Italy) I wonder why we'd want to leave the club. Even if we were richer economically, all the other benefits of close ties with Europe are desirable things.

I'm sure this has all been said before on this thread and yes these things do make me angry on a weekly basis because the country was duped by some loathsome characters into making a decision that has proved to be of no benefit.

TheBigBean

heavymental said:

A friend has just come back from an 89 day cycle tour from Norway to Portugal. Of course, post Brexit if he'd wanted to stay a few more days he wouldn't have been able to. We're poorer in lots of ways post Brexit. Economically as well as fewer opportunities for travel and cultural, scientific and educational links. Every time I go to Europe (recently back from cycling in Italy) I wonder why we'd want to leave the club. Even if we were richer economically, all the other benefits of close ties with Europe are desirable things.

I'm sure this has all been said before on this thread and yes these things do make me angry on a weekly basis because the country was duped by some loathsome characters into making a decision that has proved to be of no benefit.

This is definitely a negative for the UK as a result of Brexit, but the 90 day requirement has always been there for the rest of the world and was always complained about as it makes very little sense. Why would you want to stop tourists spending money?

surrey_commuter

TheBigBean said:

heavymental said:

A friend has just come back from an 89 day cycle tour from Norway to Portugal. Of course, post Brexit if he'd wanted to stay a few more days he wouldn't have been able to. We're poorer in lots of ways post Brexit. Economically as well as fewer opportunities for travel and cultural, scientific and educational links. Every time I go to Europe (recently back from cycling in Italy) I wonder why we'd want to leave the club. Even if we were richer economically, all the other benefits of close ties with Europe are desirable things.

I'm sure this has all been said before on this thread and yes these things do make me angry on a weekly basis because the country was duped by some loathsome characters into making a decision that has proved to be of no benefit.

This is definitely a negative for the UK as a result of Brexit, but the 90 day requirement has always been there for the rest of the world and was always complained about as it makes very little sense. Why would you want to stop tourists spending money?

surely it is to stop a tourist becoming an immigrant?

I suspect not enough people travel to non-EU countries to realise what the new restrictions would look like

surrey_commuter

heavymental said:

A friend has just come back from an 89 day cycle tour from Norway to Portugal. Of course, post Brexit if he'd wanted to stay a few more days he wouldn't have been able to. We're poorer in lots of ways post Brexit. Economically as well as fewer opportunities for travel and cultural, scientific and educational links. Every time I go to Europe (recently back from cycling in Italy) I wonder why we'd want to leave the club. Even if we were richer economically, all the other benefits of close ties with Europe are desirable things.

I'm sure this has all been said before on this thread and yes these things do make me angry on a weekly basis because the country was duped by some loathsome characters into making a decision that has proved to be of no benefit.

In fairness to the loathsome characters they never promised economic benefits from Brexit, their only lie on that front was that we would be no worse off. Then again I am not sure what sort of lie I would characterise the £350m as.

The main benefit was less foreigners working/scrounging/coming/ruling here

TheBigBean

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

heavymental said:

A friend has just come back from an 89 day cycle tour from Norway to Portugal. Of course, post Brexit if he'd wanted to stay a few more days he wouldn't have been able to. We're poorer in lots of ways post Brexit. Economically as well as fewer opportunities for travel and cultural, scientific and educational links. Every time I go to Europe (recently back from cycling in Italy) I wonder why we'd want to leave the club. Even if we were richer economically, all the other benefits of close ties with Europe are desirable things.

I'm sure this has all been said before on this thread and yes these things do make me angry on a weekly basis because the country was duped by some loathsome characters into making a decision that has proved to be of no benefit.

This is definitely a negative for the UK as a result of Brexit, but the 90 day requirement has always been there for the rest of the world and was always complained about as it makes very little sense. Why would you want to stop tourists spending money?

surely it is to stop a tourist becoming an immigrant?

I suspect not enough people travel to non-EU countries to realise what the new restrictions would look like

It's more a worst case compromise across all the Schengen countries.

On days to size ratio, the Schengen area is pretty terrible by international standards. The UK gives six months. The US 3 months, but you can return. They make it even worse by not allowing visas for longer stays as that is down to individual countries.

heavymental

surrey_commuter said:

heavymental said:

A friend has just come back from an 89 day cycle tour from Norway to Portugal. Of course, post Brexit if he'd wanted to stay a few more days he wouldn't have been able to. We're poorer in lots of ways post Brexit. Economically as well as fewer opportunities for travel and cultural, scientific and educational links. Every time I go to Europe (recently back from cycling in Italy) I wonder why we'd want to leave the club. Even if we were richer economically, all the other benefits of close ties with Europe are desirable things.

I'm sure this has all been said before on this thread and yes these things do make me angry on a weekly basis because the country was duped by some loathsome characters into making a decision that has proved to be of no benefit.

In fairness to the loathsome characters they never promised economic benefits from Brexit, their only lie on that front was that we would be no worse off. Then again I am not sure what sort of lie I would characterise the £350m as.

The main benefit was less foreigners working/scrounging/coming/ruling here

I think it's important to remember how little thought many voters put into their decisions. Not being too keen to delve into all the ins and outs of the economic situation before the vote I was tempted to tick the Leave box because of the bus slogan alone because I thought "well yes it'd be lovely to have a well funded NHS". Politicians use this now to try and tick just a few boxes for people. If you can tell someone "We'll have less Polish people here stealing our jobs" then they may well shrug their shoulders and say "well that'll do for me then". Farage won over a lot of people by talking about the fishing industry which has a romantic place in many peoples vision of Britain as a proud seafaring nation. There's little appetite to try and find the other side of the argument because people lose interest or they don't have the capacity to fully understand the argument so we end up with thousands of people voting leave because they've gone into the booth imagining thriving ports bustling with fishermen in woolly jumpers smoking pipes. This is why populism has been on the rise because people feel that Common Sense will solve all the problems of the world. In fact there's lots of boring thinking that has to go on to work out the best ways to do things. Liz Truss managed to win over a load of tories by telling them it was simply a matter of lowering taxes and removing checks and balances on planning and such. It hasn't started or ended well for her because the response from the markets was rapid. Brexit has taken longer to play out and it's only now that even the most bullish of Brexiteers are recognising that all is not well.

I often find it useful to think of the leaders of the world in a classroom or neighbourhood setting. Those that have succeeded of late are the kids who have said things loudly from the back of the class and then sniggered into their sleeves leaving the more thoughtful kids to try and persuade the mob that no, boycotting maths lessons wouldn't be good in the long run. Trump is that neighbour who you'd never dream of lending your lawnmower yet voters seem to think that his skullduggery would be useful in the corridors of power.

My wish is for an opposition which is able to convey a sense of understanding and control to make these charlatans appear to be sniggering schoolkids that they surely are.

tailwindhome

If an Executive isn't formed in NI by 00.01 on 28th Oct, the SoS for NI has indicated he'll follow the law as it stands and call an election, to be held on 15th December

rakkor

It's all going so well

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/20/trade-from-uk-to-eu-16-lower-than-if-brexit-had-not-happened-report-finds

Trade from the UK to the EU is down 16% on the levels anticipated had Brexit not happened, a new report has found.

Meanwhile trade from the EU to the UK has dropped even further, by 20%, relative to a scenario in which Brexit had not occurred, according to research published on Wednesday by the Economic and Social Research Institute.

Using UK and EU data it found that measuring the impact of Brexit on UK-EU trade can give varied results depending on the data source and the comparison group used.

The report, How has Brexit changed EU-UK trade flows?, found the impact of Brexit on EU-UK trade does not appear that large if compared to UK trade with the rest of the world, as global exports from Britain had been growing slowly. But when the UK’s trade with the rest of the world was compared with the EU’s faster-growing performance with more than 200 trading partners, the picture showed a marked difference.

The analysis, based on monthly HMRC and country-level Eurostat data, found “a substantial reduction in the number of products traded from the UK to the EU”.

briantrumpet

Guy Hands, a long-time Conservative supporter and the founder of the investment firm Terra Firma, has told BBC Radio 4 listeners that the UK economy is “frankly doomed”.

He warned that Britons will face steadily increasing taxes, steadily decreasing social services, higher interest rates and the need for a “bailout from the IMF” in the long term if the next Tory leader doesn’t renegotiate the Brexit deal.

He said that Britain was on track to become the “sick man of Europe”.

That would be fun.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/oct/24/uk-politics-live-rishi-sunak-penny-mordaunt-boris-johnson-withdrawal-nominations-deadline-tory-leadership-contest-race

sungod

divisive liar and traitor whines that party is divided, it's no surprise, johnson is only in it for personal gain, nothing else matters