BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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It came up because Uk is loosening animal warfare rules to accommodate the deal.Stevo_666 said:
I think you're assuming it is a bad deal. If you have looked at the details then let me know and explain why its bad.rjsterry said:
If only Truss had. Timtams, eh? And slightly cheaper Jacob's Creek.Stevo_666 said:
You need to think like a negotiator, not like a Cake Stopper.rjsterry said:
I think in the case of that deal we just gave Australia whatever they asked for. The Aussies couldn't believe their luck IIRC.rick_chasey said:No waaaaay. Almost like leaving a big trading bloc lost the UK’s leverage for defining standards
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Luckily a cross-party Committee of MPs has done this for us Stevo
https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/367/international-trade-committee/news/171894/mps-warn-government-against-overselling-benefits-of-australia-trade-deal/- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
So has Australia forced the UK to amend its own laws on animal welfare?rick_chasey said:
It came up because Uk is loosening animal warfare rules to accommodate the deal.Stevo_666 said:
I think you're assuming it is a bad deal. If you have looked at the details then let me know and explain why its bad.rjsterry said:
If only Truss had. Timtams, eh? And slightly cheaper Jacob's Creek.Stevo_666 said:
You need to think like a negotiator, not like a Cake Stopper.rjsterry said:
I think in the case of that deal we just gave Australia whatever they asked for. The Aussies couldn't believe their luck IIRC.rick_chasey said:No waaaaay. Almost like leaving a big trading bloc lost the UK’s leverage for defining standards
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Not overselling is not the same as being bad. What in your own words are the reasons why its a bad deal?pangolin said:Luckily a cross-party Committee of MPs has done this for us Stevo
https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/367/international-trade-committee/news/171894/mps-warn-government-against-overselling-benefits-of-australia-trade-deal/"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I've linked you to a fairly digestible summary of some reasons that it's bad for the UK. Not sure what me rewording it achieves - that's an irrelevant hoop you've added so you can claim a 'win'. Enjoy.Stevo_666 said:
Not overselling is not the same as being bad. What in your own words are the reasons why its a bad deal?pangolin said:Luckily a cross-party Committee of MPs has done this for us Stevo
https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/367/international-trade-committee/news/171894/mps-warn-government-against-overselling-benefits-of-australia-trade-deal/- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Not so much forced as the UK gave it up as much as for allowing less stringent farming methods in their produce to be sold in the Uk.Stevo_666 said:
So has Australia forced the UK to amend its own laws on animal welfare?rick_chasey said:
It came up because Uk is loosening animal warfare rules to accommodate the deal.Stevo_666 said:
I think you're assuming it is a bad deal. If you have looked at the details then let me know and explain why its bad.rjsterry said:
If only Truss had. Timtams, eh? And slightly cheaper Jacob's Creek.Stevo_666 said:
You need to think like a negotiator, not like a Cake Stopper.rjsterry said:
I think in the case of that deal we just gave Australia whatever they asked for. The Aussies couldn't believe their luck IIRC.rick_chasey said:No waaaaay. Almost like leaving a big trading bloc lost the UK’s leverage for defining standards
https://www.fwi.co.uk/business/markets-and-trends/meat-prices/uk-australia-trade-deal-will-carry-high-animal-welfare-cost0 -
I've looked at it. We can send a few more gap year students over there to work, which seems only fair. Lawyers don't need to requalify to work in Aus. And we can import slightly cheaper rubbish wine.Stevo_666 said:
So have you or anyone else actually analysed the trade agreement with Aus and come to a reasoned conclusion on this? Or are you just assuming as RJS seems to be?Pross said:
You need to think like a negotiator with very little to offer and desperation to be seen to have got a deal outside of the EU.Stevo_666 said:
You need to think like a negotiator, not like a Cake Stopper.rjsterry said:
I think in the case of that deal we just gave Australia whatever they asked for. The Aussies couldn't believe their luck IIRC.rick_chasey said:No waaaaay. Almost like leaving a big trading bloc lost the UK’s leverage for defining standards
It seems pretty small beer in exchange for undermining our food and animal welfare standards - one of the things we were actually very good at.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
There's a relationship between animal welfare standards and production costs, the importation of food from Australia, where there is a lot of extensive farming with pretty terrible animal welfare practices, will undercut UK producers.Stevo_666 said:
So has Australia forced the UK to amend its own laws on animal welfare?rick_chasey said:
It came up because Uk is loosening animal warfare rules to accommodate the deal.Stevo_666 said:
I think you're assuming it is a bad deal. If you have looked at the details then let me know and explain why its bad.rjsterry said:
If only Truss had. Timtams, eh? And slightly cheaper Jacob's Creek.Stevo_666 said:
You need to think like a negotiator, not like a Cake Stopper.rjsterry said:
I think in the case of that deal we just gave Australia whatever they asked for. The Aussies couldn't believe their luck IIRC.rick_chasey said:No waaaaay. Almost like leaving a big trading bloc lost the UK’s leverage for defining standards
l believe there's major concern that over the next 8-15 years there will be no restrictions on quantity of Australian imports into the UK market. If we are to maintain welfare standards UK producers will not be competitive. If we keep our (genuinely world class) animal welfare standards, this deal risks the viability of UK businesses. While some may consider that not to be a big problem, food security should be a major priority for any country. Food is pretty important and the past couple of years have hopefully taught us that relying on global supply chains has its own hazards.
Of course, we could just get rid of livestock farming and all go vegan, but that would be a pretty shit existence. I'd also need to find a new job which would be pretty shit too.
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Is anyone forcing you to buy Aussie beef?rick_chasey said:
Not so much forced as the UK gave it up as much as for allowing less stringent farming methods in their produce to be sold in the Uk.Stevo_666 said:
So has Australia forced the UK to amend its own laws on animal welfare?rick_chasey said:
It came up because Uk is loosening animal warfare rules to accommodate the deal.Stevo_666 said:
I think you're assuming it is a bad deal. If you have looked at the details then let me know and explain why its bad.rjsterry said:
If only Truss had. Timtams, eh? And slightly cheaper Jacob's Creek.Stevo_666 said:
You need to think like a negotiator, not like a Cake Stopper.rjsterry said:
I think in the case of that deal we just gave Australia whatever they asked for. The Aussies couldn't believe their luck IIRC.rick_chasey said:No waaaaay. Almost like leaving a big trading bloc lost the UK’s leverage for defining standards
https://www.fwi.co.uk/business/markets-and-trends/meat-prices/uk-australia-trade-deal-will-carry-high-animal-welfare-cost"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
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😂Stevo_666 said:
Is anyone forcing you to buy Aussie beef?rick_chasey said:
Not so much forced as the UK gave it up as much as for allowing less stringent farming methods in their produce to be sold in the Uk.Stevo_666 said:
So has Australia forced the UK to amend its own laws on animal welfare?rick_chasey said:
It came up because Uk is loosening animal warfare rules to accommodate the deal.Stevo_666 said:
I think you're assuming it is a bad deal. If you have looked at the details then let me know and explain why its bad.rjsterry said:
If only Truss had. Timtams, eh? And slightly cheaper Jacob's Creek.Stevo_666 said:
You need to think like a negotiator, not like a Cake Stopper.rjsterry said:
I think in the case of that deal we just gave Australia whatever they asked for. The Aussies couldn't believe their luck IIRC.rick_chasey said:No waaaaay. Almost like leaving a big trading bloc lost the UK’s leverage for defining standards
https://www.fwi.co.uk/business/markets-and-trends/meat-prices/uk-australia-trade-deal-will-carry-high-animal-welfare-cost
Sure you can do a bit better than that.
I mean, we could have said, "sure we will remove tariffs for the products and that meet our welfare and food hygiene standards, but not for the sow crates, etc". Instead we have just put our home producers at an additional disadvantage. In return for some cooking wine and working holidays for gap h year kids.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Interesting views - thanks for commenting. That was my (uninformed) take on the deal. I’m also keen to keep eating meat (although I do so less often these days) from sustainable sources with decent quality and welfare controls. I have the luxury of being able to afford this, whilst not being so removed from reality that I can’t understand the risks of cheap meat imports.angry_bird said:
There's a relationship between animal welfare standards and production costs, the importation of food from Australia, where there is a lot of extensive farming with pretty terrible animal welfare practices, will undercut UK producers.Stevo_666 said:
So has Australia forced the UK to amend its own laws on animal welfare?rick_chasey said:
It came up because Uk is loosening animal warfare rules to accommodate the deal.Stevo_666 said:
I think you're assuming it is a bad deal. If you have looked at the details then let me know and explain why its bad.rjsterry said:
If only Truss had. Timtams, eh? And slightly cheaper Jacob's Creek.Stevo_666 said:
You need to think like a negotiator, not like a Cake Stopper.rjsterry said:
I think in the case of that deal we just gave Australia whatever they asked for. The Aussies couldn't believe their luck IIRC.rick_chasey said:No waaaaay. Almost like leaving a big trading bloc lost the UK’s leverage for defining standards
l believe there's major concern that over the next 8-15 years there will be no restrictions on quantity of Australian imports into the UK market. If we are to maintain welfare standards UK producers will not be competitive. If we keep our (genuinely world class) animal welfare standards, this deal risks the viability of UK businesses. While some may consider that not to be a big problem, food security should be a major priority for any country. Food is pretty important and the past couple of years have hopefully taught us that relying on global supply chains has its own hazards.
Of course, we could just get rid of livestock farming and all go vegan, but that would be a pretty censored existence. I'd also need to find a new job which would be pretty censored too.
Do you work in the livestock/farming industry?0 -
Don't need to. Rick had no reasoned reply.rjsterry said:
😂Stevo_666 said:
Is anyone forcing you to buy Aussie beef?rick_chasey said:
Not so much forced as the UK gave it up as much as for allowing less stringent farming methods in their produce to be sold in the Uk.Stevo_666 said:
So has Australia forced the UK to amend its own laws on animal welfare?rick_chasey said:
It came up because Uk is loosening animal warfare rules to accommodate the deal.Stevo_666 said:
I think you're assuming it is a bad deal. If you have looked at the details then let me know and explain why its bad.rjsterry said:
If only Truss had. Timtams, eh? And slightly cheaper Jacob's Creek.Stevo_666 said:
You need to think like a negotiator, not like a Cake Stopper.rjsterry said:
I think in the case of that deal we just gave Australia whatever they asked for. The Aussies couldn't believe their luck IIRC.rick_chasey said:No waaaaay. Almost like leaving a big trading bloc lost the UK’s leverage for defining standards
https://www.fwi.co.uk/business/markets-and-trends/meat-prices/uk-australia-trade-deal-will-carry-high-animal-welfare-cost
Sure you can do a bit better than that.
I mean, we could have said, "sure we will remove tariffs for the products and that meet our welfare and food hygiene standards, but not for the sow crates, etc". Instead we have just put our home producers at an additional disadvantage. In return for some cooking wine and working holidays for gap h year kids."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Not claiming a win as I don't know what point you're trying to make. If you only explained it succinctly - I'm too busy to read reports.pangolin said:
I've linked you to a fairly digestible summary of some reasons that it's bad for the UK. Not sure what me rewording it achieves - that's an irrelevant hoop you've added so you can claim a 'win'. Enjoy.Stevo_666 said:
Not overselling is not the same as being bad. What in your own words are the reasons why its a bad deal?pangolin said:Luckily a cross-party Committee of MPs has done this for us Stevo
https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/367/international-trade-committee/news/171894/mps-warn-government-against-overselling-benefits-of-australia-trade-deal/"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Of course they have transportation costs as well.angry_bird said:
There's a relationship between animal welfare standards and production costs, the importation of food from Australia, where there is a lot of extensive farming with pretty terrible animal welfare practices, will undercut UK producers.Stevo_666 said:
So has Australia forced the UK to amend its own laws on animal welfare?rick_chasey said:
It came up because Uk is loosening animal warfare rules to accommodate the deal.Stevo_666 said:
I think you're assuming it is a bad deal. If you have looked at the details then let me know and explain why its bad.rjsterry said:
If only Truss had. Timtams, eh? And slightly cheaper Jacob's Creek.Stevo_666 said:
You need to think like a negotiator, not like a Cake Stopper.rjsterry said:
I think in the case of that deal we just gave Australia whatever they asked for. The Aussies couldn't believe their luck IIRC.rick_chasey said:No waaaaay. Almost like leaving a big trading bloc lost the UK’s leverage for defining standards
l believe there's major concern that over the next 8-15 years there will be no restrictions on quantity of Australian imports into the UK market. If we are to maintain welfare standards UK producers will not be competitive. If we keep our (genuinely world class) animal welfare standards, this deal risks the viability of UK businesses. While some may consider that not to be a big problem, food security should be a major priority for any country. Food is pretty important and the past couple of years have hopefully taught us that relying on global supply chains has its own hazards.
Of course, we could just get rid of livestock farming and all go vegan, but that would be a pretty censored existence. I'd also need to find a new job which would be pretty censored too.
But from what you are saying there are quotas? Some of this will depend on whether we produce enough of whatever it is and if the answer is no then it makes sense to import."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
The link is to a succinct summary of the report.Stevo_666 said:
Not claiming a win as I don't know what point you're trying to make. If you only explained it succinctly - I'm too busy to read reports.pangolin said:
I've linked you to a fairly digestible summary of some reasons that it's bad for the UK. Not sure what me rewording it achieves - that's an irrelevant hoop you've added so you can claim a 'win'. Enjoy.Stevo_666 said:
Not overselling is not the same as being bad. What in your own words are the reasons why its a bad deal?pangolin said:Luckily a cross-party Committee of MPs has done this for us Stevo
https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/367/international-trade-committee/news/171894/mps-warn-government-against-overselling-benefits-of-australia-trade-deal/- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
The link doesn’t mention quotas at all. Takes about 3 mins to read. Sounds like a pretty poor deal, badly negotiated - who’d have thought that of a Spaffer govt.0
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How about we do some trade deals with countries that allow slave/child labour? That would bring down costs to consumers, and people can always choose not to buy the products. Could get some pretty big trade deals...0
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'Tells France'
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
She needs a spot in The Day Today. She'd smash it. Move over Chris Morris.0
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french tell truss, "your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries"tailwindhome said:'Tells France'
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny1 -
Stevo says:
1. queuing is all part of a holiday
2. It's nothing to do with Brexit
3. No one is forcing people to go to France
4. It's the exception that proves the rule
Or some other bullshit.
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Port of Dover say there are insufficient French border folk to check and stamp passports at Dover (which is where the checks take place). The French knew this would be a very, very busy few days but just shrugged their shoulders in a gallic way.
There's also one P&O boat still out of action reducing capacity.0 -
Welcome to the Brexit ✌🏻
This is what hard borders look like
Think about it. Brits leave EU to make a hard border with France. Complains France isn’t making it easy to come in.
Duuuuh0 -
Don't forget our Government refuse to increase the number of passport booths at Dover
https://cityam.com/govt-rejects-33m-proposal-for-more-passport-booths-at-dover-leaving-longer-queues-more-likely/0 -
This is the problem, low welfare extensive farming can be done so cheaply that despite having to transport food halfway across the world, it can still undercut UK prices. As an aside, even drug fuelled, low-welfare, high-input feedlot farming as is popular in the US and South America is cheap enough that they can undercut UK suppliers, it’s also terrible for the environment and usually where the headline figures for the environmental impact of farming are derived from.Stevo_666 said:
Of course they have transportation costs as well.angry_bird said:
There's a relationship between animal welfare standards and production costs, the importation of food from Australia, where there is a lot of extensive farming with pretty terrible animal welfare practices, will undercut UK producers.Stevo_666 said:
So has Australia forced the UK to amend its own laws on animal welfare?rick_chasey said:
It came up because Uk is loosening animal warfare rules to accommodate the deal.Stevo_666 said:
I think you're assuming it is a bad deal. If you have looked at the details then let me know and explain why its bad.rjsterry said:
If only Truss had. Timtams, eh? And slightly cheaper Jacob's Creek.Stevo_666 said:
You need to think like a negotiator, not like a Cake Stopper.rjsterry said:
I think in the case of that deal we just gave Australia whatever they asked for. The Aussies couldn't believe their luck IIRC.rick_chasey said:No waaaaay. Almost like leaving a big trading bloc lost the UK’s leverage for defining standards
l believe there's major concern that over the next 8-15 years there will be no restrictions on quantity of Australian imports into the UK market. If we are to maintain welfare standards UK producers will not be competitive. If we keep our (genuinely world class) animal welfare standards, this deal risks the viability of UK businesses. While some may consider that not to be a big problem, food security should be a major priority for any country. Food is pretty important and the past couple of years have hopefully taught us that relying on global supply chains has its own hazards.
Of course, we could just get rid of livestock farming and all go vegan, but that would be a pretty censored existence. I'd also need to find a new job which would be pretty censored too.
But from what you are saying there are quotas? Some of this will depend on whether we produce enough of whatever it is and if the answer is no then it makes sense to import.
Quotas are due to exist for the short term, something like 6 years on dairy produce, 15 years is the maximum but I forget what it’s for. Once the safeguards are gone we’re completely open to Aus imports.
Supply vs demand is an interesting one- if we don’t produce enough of something I’d say we should be looking to increase our production and food security, not rely on imports that risk sending more UK producers out of business and thus exacerbating the problem. It’s interesting that other countries who have historically relied on food imports are now putting major efforts into producing more of their own food, yet the UK seem to be happy to go the other way.
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Thanks for posting. Always interesting to hear from people in different industries about how Brexit is affecting things.angry_bird said:
This is the problem, low welfare extensive farming can be done so cheaply that despite having to transport food halfway across the world, it can still undercut UK prices. As an aside, even drug fuelled, low-welfare, high-input feedlot farming as is popular in the US and South America is cheap enough that they can undercut UK suppliers, it’s also terrible for the environment and usually where the headline figures for the environmental impact of farming are derived from.Stevo_666 said:
Of course they have transportation costs as well.angry_bird said:
There's a relationship between animal welfare standards and production costs, the importation of food from Australia, where there is a lot of extensive farming with pretty terrible animal welfare practices, will undercut UK producers.Stevo_666 said:
So has Australia forced the UK to amend its own laws on animal welfare?rick_chasey said:
It came up because Uk is loosening animal warfare rules to accommodate the deal.Stevo_666 said:
I think you're assuming it is a bad deal. If you have looked at the details then let me know and explain why its bad.rjsterry said:
If only Truss had. Timtams, eh? And slightly cheaper Jacob's Creek.Stevo_666 said:
You need to think like a negotiator, not like a Cake Stopper.rjsterry said:
I think in the case of that deal we just gave Australia whatever they asked for. The Aussies couldn't believe their luck IIRC.rick_chasey said:No waaaaay. Almost like leaving a big trading bloc lost the UK’s leverage for defining standards
l believe there's major concern that over the next 8-15 years there will be no restrictions on quantity of Australian imports into the UK market. If we are to maintain welfare standards UK producers will not be competitive. If we keep our (genuinely world class) animal welfare standards, this deal risks the viability of UK businesses. While some may consider that not to be a big problem, food security should be a major priority for any country. Food is pretty important and the past couple of years have hopefully taught us that relying on global supply chains has its own hazards.
Of course, we could just get rid of livestock farming and all go vegan, but that would be a pretty censored existence. I'd also need to find a new job which would be pretty censored too.
But from what you are saying there are quotas? Some of this will depend on whether we produce enough of whatever it is and if the answer is no then it makes sense to import.
Quotas are due to exist for the short term, something like 6 years on dairy produce, 15 years is the maximum but I forget what it’s for. Once the safeguards are gone we’re completely open to Aus imports.
Supply vs demand is an interesting one- if we don’t produce enough of something I’d say we should be looking to increase our production and food security, not rely on imports that risk sending more UK producers out of business and thus exacerbating the problem. It’s interesting that other countries who have historically relied on food imports are now putting major efforts into producing more of their own food, yet the UK seem to be happy to go the other way.
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In my world pre 2020 we did 90% of projects in London, 10% on the continent.
Since then it’s been about 60% London 40% Continent.
Big shift. Seems permanent.1 -
Still no point arguing a Government policy is bad from a position of knowledge. Everyone knows we've had enough of experts (mainly as they all argued Brexit was bad before it happened).skyblueamateur said:
Thanks for posting. Always interesting to hear from people in different industries about how Brexit is affecting things.angry_bird said:
This is the problem, low welfare extensive farming can be done so cheaply that despite having to transport food halfway across the world, it can still undercut UK prices. As an aside, even drug fuelled, low-welfare, high-input feedlot farming as is popular in the US and South America is cheap enough that they can undercut UK suppliers, it’s also terrible for the environment and usually where the headline figures for the environmental impact of farming are derived from.Stevo_666 said:
Of course they have transportation costs as well.angry_bird said:
There's a relationship between animal welfare standards and production costs, the importation of food from Australia, where there is a lot of extensive farming with pretty terrible animal welfare practices, will undercut UK producers.Stevo_666 said:
So has Australia forced the UK to amend its own laws on animal welfare?rick_chasey said:
It came up because Uk is loosening animal warfare rules to accommodate the deal.Stevo_666 said:
I think you're assuming it is a bad deal. If you have looked at the details then let me know and explain why its bad.rjsterry said:
If only Truss had. Timtams, eh? And slightly cheaper Jacob's Creek.Stevo_666 said:
You need to think like a negotiator, not like a Cake Stopper.rjsterry said:
I think in the case of that deal we just gave Australia whatever they asked for. The Aussies couldn't believe their luck IIRC.rick_chasey said:No waaaaay. Almost like leaving a big trading bloc lost the UK’s leverage for defining standards
l believe there's major concern that over the next 8-15 years there will be no restrictions on quantity of Australian imports into the UK market. If we are to maintain welfare standards UK producers will not be competitive. If we keep our (genuinely world class) animal welfare standards, this deal risks the viability of UK businesses. While some may consider that not to be a big problem, food security should be a major priority for any country. Food is pretty important and the past couple of years have hopefully taught us that relying on global supply chains has its own hazards.
Of course, we could just get rid of livestock farming and all go vegan, but that would be a pretty censored existence. I'd also need to find a new job which would be pretty censored too.
But from what you are saying there are quotas? Some of this will depend on whether we produce enough of whatever it is and if the answer is no then it makes sense to import.
Quotas are due to exist for the short term, something like 6 years on dairy produce, 15 years is the maximum but I forget what it’s for. Once the safeguards are gone we’re completely open to Aus imports.
Supply vs demand is an interesting one- if we don’t produce enough of something I’d say we should be looking to increase our production and food security, not rely on imports that risk sending more UK producers out of business and thus exacerbating the problem. It’s interesting that other countries who have historically relied on food imports are now putting major efforts into producing more of their own food, yet the UK seem to be happy to go the other way.1
