BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

1…19601961196319651966…2108

Comments

  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,605
    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    It’s just they don’t want foreigners making decisions that even remotely affect them at all. That’s what it boils down to.

    That's probably the majority world view.
    The majority who don't know what they're talking about, possibly? Or the majority who have an agenda?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,532
    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    It’s just they don’t want foreigners making decisions that even remotely affect them at all. That’s what it boils down to.

    That's probably the majority world view.
    Doesn’t make it right.
    Better than colonialism.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,648
    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    It’s just they don’t want foreigners making decisions that even remotely affect them at all. That’s what it boils down to.

    That's probably the majority world view.
    Doesn’t make it right.
    Better than colonialism.
    No disputing that. Don’t think the EU is colonialism though, despite what some Brexiter a say.
    _
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,091
    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    It’s just they don’t want foreigners making decisions that even remotely affect them at all. That’s what it boils down to.

    That's probably the majority world view.
    Today's sweeping assumption prize 🏆
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • HilaryAmin
    HilaryAmin Posts: 160
    Investors don't really li
    rick_chasey said:

    It’s just they don’t want foreigners making decisions that even remotely affect them at all. That’s what it boils down to.

    When we were a member of the EU I never felt that my fellow members were foreigners. Now they are! And we can't participate in any debate where they discuss what to do.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,648
    Well yes prosperity always comes from freeer trade with your neighbours and Brexit is the opposite.

    But a big chunk of old people aren’t interested in free trade. They’ve made their money. They just want the world to look like it did when they were young.

    Decades of actual growth means we’re much richer than when the oldies were growing up so they think the youth have it easy.

    In reality the youth have considerably less opportunity unless you are born into a rich family.

    That growth that the old grew up with has been absent for a decade and a half.

    They don’t care - they made their money.
    _
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    rick_chasey said:

    Well yes prosperity always comes from freeer trade with your neighbours and Brexit is the opposite.

    But a big chunk of old people aren’t interested in free trade. They’ve made their money. They just want the world to look like it did when they were young.

    Decades of actual growth means we’re much richer than when the oldies were growing up so they think the youth have it easy.

    In reality the youth have considerably less opportunity unless you are born into a rich family.

    That growth that the old grew up with has been absent for a decade and a half.

    They don’t care - they made their money.

    I agree with most of this but not your opening paragraph.

    Prosperity comes from having something to trade. If people want it badly enough, barriers will be overcome.

    Oil states and Switzerland don’t make any particular effort to be easy to deal with. They don’t need to.

    I do however agree that a nation like the UK with limited offering that is truly unique and high demand, making trade easy is definitely to be encouraged.

    Unfortunately, the Brexit mindset seem to be pull up the drawbridge.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rick_chasey said:

    Well yes prosperity always comes from freeer trade with your neighbours and Brexit is the opposite.

    But a big chunk of old people aren’t interested in free trade. They’ve made their money. They just want the world to look like it did when they were young.

    Decades of actual growth means we’re much richer than when the oldies were growing up so they think the youth have it easy.

    In reality the youth have considerably less opportunity unless you are born into a rich family.

    That growth that the old grew up with has been absent for a decade and a half.

    They don’t care - they made their money.

    Do you really think that somebody thick enough to vote for Brexit puts that much thought into the economic consequences on a macro level or forecast the impact upon themselves for the next couple of decades?

    Their North Star is a fear and loathing of foreigners
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,648
    edited July 2022
    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Well yes prosperity always comes from freeer trade with your neighbours and Brexit is the opposite.

    But a big chunk of old people aren’t interested in free trade. They’ve made their money. They just want the world to look like it did when they were young.

    Decades of actual growth means we’re much richer than when the oldies were growing up so they think the youth have it easy.

    In reality the youth have considerably less opportunity unless you are born into a rich family.

    That growth that the old grew up with has been absent for a decade and a half.

    They don’t care - they made their money.

    Do you really think that somebody thick enough to vote for Brexit puts that much thought into the economic consequences on a macro level or forecast the impact upon themselves for the next couple of decades?

    Their North Star is a fear and loathing of foreigners
    They know it’s costly. I do speak to some of these people. Anecdotally, they think being “British”, like what it used to mean (before it meant all TV programmes having a diverse cast etc) is worth the cost because life was great back then.

    But not so great that the young are right to moan about housing because did we not know that interest rates were really high.

    They also don’t believe the labour shortage. Literally. They think firms are lying.
    _
  • wallace_and_gromit
    wallace_and_gromit Posts: 3,390
    rick_chasey said:

    In reality the youth have considerably less opportunity unless you are born into a rich family.

    Not so sure about this, given that circa half of school leavers go into higher education these days. It was 5%-10% in old days when the current blue rinse brigade left school. And the range of jobs available is so much wider than in those days. Plus the availability and low cost of travel promotes mobility, which enhances opportunities.

    I guess much depends on the definition of "rich".

    Fair to say though that an 18 yo now has fewer opportunities than an 18 yo did in the immediate pre-Brexit days.

  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,091
    This cutting red tape idea: the Cabinet Office is currently producing YouTube videos to explain the extra red tape that has resulted from Brexit. In other words we need to cut red tape just to get back to where we were.

    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,310
    Switching the timetable around so the Protocol Bill clears the Commons tomorrow

    Presumably before the final two are known

    Mad stuff altogether
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,648
    _
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 19,537
    edited July 2022
    Offshoring animal cruelty, to get that trade deal headline. The UK was leading the way in the EU, and now we've just thrown in the towel. Animals can't vote, so stuff them.

    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,648
    No waaaaay. Almost like leaving a big trading bloc lost the UK’s leverage for defining standards
    _
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,091
    rick_chasey said:

    No waaaaay. Almost like leaving a big trading bloc lost the UK’s leverage for defining standards

    I think in the case of that deal we just gave Australia whatever they asked for. The Aussies couldn't believe their luck IIRC.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,532
    rjsterry said:

    rick_chasey said:

    No waaaaay. Almost like leaving a big trading bloc lost the UK’s leverage for defining standards

    I think in the case of that deal we just gave Australia whatever they asked for. The Aussies couldn't believe their luck IIRC.
    Lots of Aussies were not happy with the deal.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,648
    TheBigBean said:

    rjsterry said:

    rick_chasey said:

    No waaaaay. Almost like leaving a big trading bloc lost the UK’s leverage for defining standards

    I think in the case of that deal we just gave Australia whatever they asked for. The Aussies couldn't believe their luck IIRC.
    Lots of Aussies were not happy with the deal.
    Current govt keep undermining your Brexit benefits
    _
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,091
    TheBigBean said:

    rjsterry said:

    rick_chasey said:

    No waaaaay. Almost like leaving a big trading bloc lost the UK’s leverage for defining standards

    I think in the case of that deal we just gave Australia whatever they asked for. The Aussies couldn't believe their luck IIRC.
    Lots of Aussies were not happy with the deal.
    Can you elaborate?
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,532
    rjsterry said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rjsterry said:

    rick_chasey said:

    No waaaaay. Almost like leaving a big trading bloc lost the UK’s leverage for defining standards

    I think in the case of that deal we just gave Australia whatever they asked for. The Aussies couldn't believe their luck IIRC.
    Lots of Aussies were not happy with the deal.
    Can you elaborate?
    Can't remember exactly, but it involves more liberal visas for Brits.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,532
    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rjsterry said:

    rick_chasey said:

    No waaaaay. Almost like leaving a big trading bloc lost the UK’s leverage for defining standards

    I think in the case of that deal we just gave Australia whatever they asked for. The Aussies couldn't believe their luck IIRC.
    Lots of Aussies were not happy with the deal.
    Current govt keep undermining your Brexit benefits
    Then vote in a new one.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,310
    The pros & cons of this deal would have been thrashed out in Parliament before it was signed
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,648
    Nowhere else to put this and not worth its own thread but for EU watchers this made me properly LOL

    _
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,532
    rick_chasey said:

    Nowhere else to put this and not worth its own thread but for EU watchers this made me properly LOL

    After all that Brexit unity as well.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,648
    Lol this has been going on for over 15 years - much bigger deal than Brexit
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,605
    rjsterry said:

    rick_chasey said:

    No waaaaay. Almost like leaving a big trading bloc lost the UK’s leverage for defining standards

    I think in the case of that deal we just gave Australia whatever they asked for. The Aussies couldn't believe their luck IIRC.
    You need to think like a negotiator, not like a Cake Stopper.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,158
    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    rick_chasey said:

    No waaaaay. Almost like leaving a big trading bloc lost the UK’s leverage for defining standards

    I think in the case of that deal we just gave Australia whatever they asked for. The Aussies couldn't believe their luck IIRC.
    You need to think like a negotiator, not like a Cake Stopper.
    You need to think like a negotiator with very little to offer and desperation to be seen to have got a deal outside of the EU.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,091
    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    rick_chasey said:

    No waaaaay. Almost like leaving a big trading bloc lost the UK’s leverage for defining standards

    I think in the case of that deal we just gave Australia whatever they asked for. The Aussies couldn't believe their luck IIRC.
    You need to think like a negotiator, not like a Cake Stopper.
    If only Truss had. Timtams, eh? And slightly cheaper Jacob's Creek.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,605
    Pross said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    rick_chasey said:

    No waaaaay. Almost like leaving a big trading bloc lost the UK’s leverage for defining standards

    I think in the case of that deal we just gave Australia whatever they asked for. The Aussies couldn't believe their luck IIRC.
    You need to think like a negotiator, not like a Cake Stopper.
    You need to think like a negotiator with very little to offer and desperation to be seen to have got a deal outside of the EU.
    So have you or anyone else actually analysed the trade agreement with Aus and come to a reasoned conclusion on this? Or are you just assuming as RJS seems to be?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,605
    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    rick_chasey said:

    No waaaaay. Almost like leaving a big trading bloc lost the UK’s leverage for defining standards

    I think in the case of that deal we just gave Australia whatever they asked for. The Aussies couldn't believe their luck IIRC.
    You need to think like a negotiator, not like a Cake Stopper.
    If only Truss had. Timtams, eh? And slightly cheaper Jacob's Creek.
    I think you're assuming it is a bad deal. If you have looked at the details then let me know and explain why its bad.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]

Categories