BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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No idea what you're on about now, but you sound annoyed. And apparently still haven't read the original posts by me and Raver properly.kingstongraham said:.
If the idea is bol1ocks, then any implications are meaningless.Stevo_666 said:
It was Raver who posted the move to vote Lib Dem - read the tweet he posted above. I merely commented on the implications, so have a word with DDR.kingstongraham said:
The idea that Labour voters will be moving to vote Lib Dem in the next election in order to get back into the EU, and that would make a coalition more likely. It's utter, utter nonsense.Stevo_666 said:
Which bit do you disagree with?kingstongraham said:
It's especially nonsensical when it's in the middle of an article about how great the first past the post system is.
The rest of the article is "don't threaten me with a good time", however.
Nor did I say it would make a coalition more likely.
RTFP...
Did you really consider your post to have risen to the level of a thesis that i was referring to? Sorry.
Your post wasn't bol1ocks, just pointless because it was built on bol1ocks."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Ha - I even read the linked article.Stevo_666 said:
No idea what you're on about now, but you sound annoyed. And apparently still haven't read the original posts by me and Raver properly.kingstongraham said:.
If the idea is bol1ocks, then any implications are meaningless.Stevo_666 said:
It was Raver who posted the move to vote Lib Dem - read the tweet he posted above. I merely commented on the implications, so have a word with DDR.kingstongraham said:
The idea that Labour voters will be moving to vote Lib Dem in the next election in order to get back into the EU, and that would make a coalition more likely. It's utter, utter nonsense.Stevo_666 said:
Which bit do you disagree with?kingstongraham said:
It's especially nonsensical when it's in the middle of an article about how great the first past the post system is.
The rest of the article is "don't threaten me with a good time", however.
Nor did I say it would make a coalition more likely.
RTFP...
Did you really consider your post to have risen to the level of a thesis that i was referring to? Sorry.
Your post wasn't bol1ocks, just pointless because it was built on bol1ocks.
It might be a bit complicated to understand, but if something is obviously bol1ocks, then it is not "possibly good news". It's just bol1ocks.0 -
So this thing that is done: Ed Vaizey's just been on Newsnight saying that he still doesn't think that the party will allow anyone but an ardent Brexiter to be leader. All the rubbish in the papers about Johnson brought down by a 'Remainer Plot' 😂 would suggest he is on to something.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Why it's worth not throwing in the towel just yet for something more sensible...
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It seems Brexiters need an enemy to exist.briantrumpet said:Why it's worth not throwing in the towel just yet for something more sensible...
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
rjsterry said:
It seems Brexiters need an enemy to exist.briantrumpet said:Why it's worth not throwing in the towel just yet for something more sensible...
I think that's what Fraser Nelson is getting at in his DT piece... time to stop saying "But Corbyn", "It's the EU", "Wokery, wokery, wokery"... what are they actually for? The Johnson débâcle is the culmination of their recent trajectory - for all those people who claim they only voted Tory because of Johnson, you have to wonder if they could articulate a single tenet of his political philosophy, in the same way people definitely could have articulated Thatcher's, whether or not they agreed with her viewpoint.1 -
would be great to know if they actually believed this sh1t or whether it is an attempt to define the next leadership contestbriantrumpet said:Why it's worth not throwing in the towel just yet for something more sensible...
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surrey_commuter said:
would be great to know if they actually believed this censored or whether it is an attempt to define the next leadership contestbriantrumpet said:Why it's worth not throwing in the towel just yet for something more sensible...
That too.
Sadly, I can't see the Tories being ready to return to pragmatism yet, so I suspect that the next election will be a contest between pragmatism and dogmatism. At least this time the electorate will have seen some evidence of what a dogmatic Brexit looks like, so might be less inclined to go for the promises of unicorns. Ironically, unlike at the referendum and the last GE, the deeply unsexy status quo is Brexit, and that will be a more difficult prospectus to sell this time around.0 -
She claims to be afraid of the massive influence of Andrew Adonis and Michael Heseltine.
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This, however, is an astonishing way of trying to sell it in the Telegraph:This is a grave situation for the Conservatives. The fact is that Brexit is a leap of faith. Amid widespread elite scepticism and renewed Remainer resistance, the project will fail unless the Tories can find a leader who believes in it enough to drive it forward. A leader who understands that Brexit – which fuses free market economics and sovereign populism – exemplifies the political Third Way that Tony Blair strove for but never found.0
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so Brexit is a bit sh1t and it is all Blair's fault?kingstongraham said:This, however, is an astonishing way of trying to sell it in the Telegraph:
This is a grave situation for the Conservatives. The fact is that Brexit is a leap of faith. Amid widespread elite scepticism and renewed Remainer resistance, the project will fail unless the Tories can find a leader who believes in it enough to drive it forward. A leader who understands that Brexit – which fuses free market economics and sovereign populism – exemplifies the political Third Way that Tony Blair strove for but never found.0 -
I think it will be fought on who is the biggest tax cutter which ironically means we will end up with Boris's drunken sailor spending and his wish for cutting taxes.briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
would be great to know if they actually believed this censored or whether it is an attempt to define the next leadership contestbriantrumpet said:Why it's worth not throwing in the towel just yet for something more sensible...
That too.
Sadly, I can't see the Tories being ready to return to pragmatism yet, so I suspect that the next election will be a contest between pragmatism and dogmatism. At least this time the electorate will have seen some evidence of what a dogmatic Brexit looks like, so might be less inclined to go for the promises of unicorns. Ironically, unlike at the referendum and the last GE, the deeply unsexy status quo is Brexit, and that will be a more difficult prospectus to sell this time around.0 -
Have you identifier your free marketer to replace Boris? I suspect he/she will have a two year run to keep you happy and then be in opposition. For those two years, you'll then need to thank Boris.surrey_commuter said:
I think it will be fought on who is the biggest tax cutter which ironically means we will end up with Boris's drunken sailor spending and his wish for cutting taxes.briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
would be great to know if they actually believed this censored or whether it is an attempt to define the next leadership contestbriantrumpet said:Why it's worth not throwing in the towel just yet for something more sensible...
That too.
Sadly, I can't see the Tories being ready to return to pragmatism yet, so I suspect that the next election will be a contest between pragmatism and dogmatism. At least this time the electorate will have seen some evidence of what a dogmatic Brexit looks like, so might be less inclined to go for the promises of unicorns. Ironically, unlike at the referendum and the last GE, the deeply unsexy status quo is Brexit, and that will be a more difficult prospectus to sell this time around.0 -
I read it as "if we can just believe hard enough, Brexit will deliver what Tony Blair always dreamed of".surrey_commuter said:
so Brexit is a bit censored and it is all Blair's fault?kingstongraham said:This, however, is an astonishing way of trying to sell it in the Telegraph:
This is a grave situation for the Conservatives. The fact is that Brexit is a leap of faith. Amid widespread elite scepticism and renewed Remainer resistance, the project will fail unless the Tories can find a leader who believes in it enough to drive it forward. A leader who understands that Brexit – which fuses free market economics and sovereign populism – exemplifies the political Third Way that Tony Blair strove for but never found.0 -
kingstongraham said:
I read it as "if we can just believe hard enough, Brexit will deliver what Tony Blair always dreamed of".surrey_commuter said:
so Brexit is a bit censored and it is all Blair's fault?kingstongraham said:This, however, is an astonishing way of trying to sell it in the Telegraph:
This is a grave situation for the Conservatives. The fact is that Brexit is a leap of faith. Amid widespread elite scepticism and renewed Remainer resistance, the project will fail unless the Tories can find a leader who believes in it enough to drive it forward. A leader who understands that Brexit – which fuses free market economics and sovereign populism – exemplifies the political Third Way that Tony Blair strove for but never found.
I'd not put Sherelle near the top of my list of persuasive writers, for all sort of reasons. I'm not sure her comprehension abilities, even reading back what she's just written, are terribly strong. Or maybe she does think that what she's written makes sense.0 -
You're trying to look at it as a coherent logical argument rather than a series of stock phrases and words arranged to trigger an emotional response.briantrumpet said:kingstongraham said:
I read it as "if we can just believe hard enough, Brexit will deliver what Tony Blair always dreamed of".surrey_commuter said:
so Brexit is a bit censored and it is all Blair's fault?kingstongraham said:This, however, is an astonishing way of trying to sell it in the Telegraph:
This is a grave situation for the Conservatives. The fact is that Brexit is a leap of faith. Amid widespread elite scepticism and renewed Remainer resistance, the project will fail unless the Tories can find a leader who believes in it enough to drive it forward. A leader who understands that Brexit – which fuses free market economics and sovereign populism – exemplifies the political Third Way that Tony Blair strove for but never found.
I'd not put Sherelle near the top of my list of persuasive writers, for all sort of reasons. I'm not sure her comprehension abilities, even reading back what she's just written, are terribly strong. Or maybe she does think that what she's written makes sense.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
My default these days is to assume all articles are simply click bait.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
rjsterry said:
You're trying to look at it as a coherent logical argument rather than a series of stock phrases and words arranged to trigger an emotional response.briantrumpet said:kingstongraham said:
I read it as "if we can just believe hard enough, Brexit will deliver what Tony Blair always dreamed of".surrey_commuter said:
so Brexit is a bit censored and it is all Blair's fault?kingstongraham said:This, however, is an astonishing way of trying to sell it in the Telegraph:
This is a grave situation for the Conservatives. The fact is that Brexit is a leap of faith. Amid widespread elite scepticism and renewed Remainer resistance, the project will fail unless the Tories can find a leader who believes in it enough to drive it forward. A leader who understands that Brexit – which fuses free market economics and sovereign populism – exemplifies the political Third Way that Tony Blair strove for but never found.
I'd not put Sherelle near the top of my list of persuasive writers, for all sort of reasons. I'm not sure her comprehension abilities, even reading back what she's just written, are terribly strong. Or maybe she does think that what she's written makes sense.
As @Stevo_666 would tell you, I'm ever the optimist.0 -
worryingly they are all on the nutter end of the Party.TheBigBean said:
Have you identifier your free marketer to replace Boris? I suspect he/she will have a two year run to keep you happy and then be in opposition. For those two years, you'll then need to thank Boris.surrey_commuter said:
I think it will be fought on who is the biggest tax cutter which ironically means we will end up with Boris's drunken sailor spending and his wish for cutting taxes.briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
would be great to know if they actually believed this censored or whether it is an attempt to define the next leadership contestbriantrumpet said:Why it's worth not throwing in the towel just yet for something more sensible...
That too.
Sadly, I can't see the Tories being ready to return to pragmatism yet, so I suspect that the next election will be a contest between pragmatism and dogmatism. At least this time the electorate will have seen some evidence of what a dogmatic Brexit looks like, so might be less inclined to go for the promises of unicorns. Ironically, unlike at the referendum and the last GE, the deeply unsexy status quo is Brexit, and that will be a more difficult prospectus to sell this time around.
They are so mad that Steve Baker looks the most sane but it is such a poor choice that I am seriously contemplating a rethink
I think whoever wins will do the tax cutting but not the cost cutting so I don't think I will be happy
Labour really should be doing so much better against Boris/Priti/JRM/Dorries etc that I really don't see the next election as a foregone conclusion
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OBR seems to think Sunak was right to raise taxes and that lowering taxes to boost economic activity is a myth.TheBigBean said:
Have you identifier your free marketer to replace Boris? I suspect he/she will have a two year run to keep you happy and then be in opposition. For those two years, you'll then need to thank Boris.surrey_commuter said:
I think it will be fought on who is the biggest tax cutter which ironically means we will end up with Boris's drunken sailor spending and his wish for cutting taxes.briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
would be great to know if they actually believed this censored or whether it is an attempt to define the next leadership contestbriantrumpet said:Why it's worth not throwing in the towel just yet for something more sensible...
That too.
Sadly, I can't see the Tories being ready to return to pragmatism yet, so I suspect that the next election will be a contest between pragmatism and dogmatism. At least this time the electorate will have seen some evidence of what a dogmatic Brexit looks like, so might be less inclined to go for the promises of unicorns. Ironically, unlike at the referendum and the last GE, the deeply unsexy status quo is Brexit, and that will be a more difficult prospectus to sell this time around.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Tell the pope surrey-commuter.rjsterry said:
OBR seems to think Sunak was right to raise taxes and that lowering taxes to boost economic activity is a myth.TheBigBean said:
Have you identifier your free marketer to replace Boris? I suspect he/she will have a two year run to keep you happy and then be in opposition. For those two years, you'll then need to thank Boris.surrey_commuter said:
I think it will be fought on who is the biggest tax cutter which ironically means we will end up with Boris's drunken sailor spending and his wish for cutting taxes.briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
would be great to know if they actually believed this censored or whether it is an attempt to define the next leadership contestbriantrumpet said:Why it's worth not throwing in the towel just yet for something more sensible...
That too.
Sadly, I can't see the Tories being ready to return to pragmatism yet, so I suspect that the next election will be a contest between pragmatism and dogmatism. At least this time the electorate will have seen some evidence of what a dogmatic Brexit looks like, so might be less inclined to go for the promises of unicorns. Ironically, unlike at the referendum and the last GE, the deeply unsexy status quo is Brexit, and that will be a more difficult prospectus to sell this time around.0 -
Pope??TheBigBean said:
Tell the pope surrey-commuter.rjsterry said:
OBR seems to think Sunak was right to raise taxes and that lowering taxes to boost economic activity is a myth.TheBigBean said:
Have you identifier your free marketer to replace Boris? I suspect he/she will have a two year run to keep you happy and then be in opposition. For those two years, you'll then need to thank Boris.surrey_commuter said:
I think it will be fought on who is the biggest tax cutter which ironically means we will end up with Boris's drunken sailor spending and his wish for cutting taxes.briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
would be great to know if they actually believed this censored or whether it is an attempt to define the next leadership contestbriantrumpet said:Why it's worth not throwing in the towel just yet for something more sensible...
That too.
Sadly, I can't see the Tories being ready to return to pragmatism yet, so I suspect that the next election will be a contest between pragmatism and dogmatism. At least this time the electorate will have seen some evidence of what a dogmatic Brexit looks like, so might be less inclined to go for the promises of unicorns. Ironically, unlike at the referendum and the last GE, the deeply unsexy status quo is Brexit, and that will be a more difficult prospectus to sell this time around.
I agree he was right to raise taxes.
I am suprised bordering on amazed that the OBR does not think that lowering taxes boosts economic activity, do they think it has an adverse effect? should we have all tax rates at 80% to turbo charge our world beating economy?
It sounds like a theory that would not work in real life. If worker A has his income tax raised from 30% to 60% he will have to earn twice as much to maintain his standard of living. Whether he does this by working more efficiently or longer is good fo the economy.
If his tax is cut from 30% to zero then he can afford to slack off0 -
Maybe they have the data to show that the relatively small increments in additional personal income are not going to lead to enough additional spending to make up the difference in receipts.surrey_commuter said:
Pope??TheBigBean said:
Tell the pope surrey-commuter.rjsterry said:
OBR seems to think Sunak was right to raise taxes and that lowering taxes to boost economic activity is a myth.TheBigBean said:
Have you identifier your free marketer to replace Boris? I suspect he/she will have a two year run to keep you happy and then be in opposition. For those two years, you'll then need to thank Boris.surrey_commuter said:
I think it will be fought on who is the biggest tax cutter which ironically means we will end up with Boris's drunken sailor spending and his wish for cutting taxes.briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
would be great to know if they actually believed this censored or whether it is an attempt to define the next leadership contestbriantrumpet said:Why it's worth not throwing in the towel just yet for something more sensible...
That too.
Sadly, I can't see the Tories being ready to return to pragmatism yet, so I suspect that the next election will be a contest between pragmatism and dogmatism. At least this time the electorate will have seen some evidence of what a dogmatic Brexit looks like, so might be less inclined to go for the promises of unicorns. Ironically, unlike at the referendum and the last GE, the deeply unsexy status quo is Brexit, and that will be a more difficult prospectus to sell this time around.
I agree he was right to raise taxes.
I am suprised bordering on amazed that the OBR does not think that lowering taxes boosts economic activity, do they think it has an adverse effect? should we have all tax rates at 80% to turbo charge our world beating economy?
It sounds like a theory that would not work in real life. If worker A has his income tax raised from 30% to 60% he will have to earn twice as much to maintain his standard of living. Whether he does this by working more efficiently or longer is good fo the economy.
If his tax is cut from 30% to zero then he can afford to slack off1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
😆briantrumpet said:rjsterry said:
You're trying to look at it as a coherent logical argument rather than a series of stock phrases and words arranged to trigger an emotional response.briantrumpet said:kingstongraham said:
I read it as "if we can just believe hard enough, Brexit will deliver what Tony Blair always dreamed of".surrey_commuter said:
so Brexit is a bit censored and it is all Blair's fault?kingstongraham said:This, however, is an astonishing way of trying to sell it in the Telegraph:
This is a grave situation for the Conservatives. The fact is that Brexit is a leap of faith. Amid widespread elite scepticism and renewed Remainer resistance, the project will fail unless the Tories can find a leader who believes in it enough to drive it forward. A leader who understands that Brexit – which fuses free market economics and sovereign populism – exemplifies the political Third Way that Tony Blair strove for but never found.
I'd not put Sherelle near the top of my list of persuasive writers, for all sort of reasons. I'm not sure her comprehension abilities, even reading back what she's just written, are terribly strong. Or maybe she does think that what she's written makes sense.
As @Stevo_666 would tell you, I'm ever the optimist.
That's right, Provide Frazer. Here's your commemorative stamp to celebrate your cheery optimism.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo_666 said:
😆briantrumpet said:rjsterry said:
You're trying to look at it as a coherent logical argument rather than a series of stock phrases and words arranged to trigger an emotional response.briantrumpet said:kingstongraham said:
I read it as "if we can just believe hard enough, Brexit will deliver what Tony Blair always dreamed of".surrey_commuter said:
so Brexit is a bit censored and it is all Blair's fault?kingstongraham said:This, however, is an astonishing way of trying to sell it in the Telegraph:
This is a grave situation for the Conservatives. The fact is that Brexit is a leap of faith. Amid widespread elite scepticism and renewed Remainer resistance, the project will fail unless the Tories can find a leader who believes in it enough to drive it forward. A leader who understands that Brexit – which fuses free market economics and sovereign populism – exemplifies the political Third Way that Tony Blair strove for but never found.
I'd not put Sherelle near the top of my list of persuasive writers, for all sort of reasons. I'm not sure her comprehension abilities, even reading back what she's just written, are terribly strong. Or maybe she does think that what she's written makes sense.
As @Stevo_666 would tell you, I'm ever the optimist.
That's right, Provide Frazer. Here's your commemorative stamp to celebrate your cheery optimism.
Au contraire, Stéphane six-cents-soixante-six, I've been optimistic that Brexit was not 'done' (other than in closed minds), and it seems, that, as you say, it pays to be optimistic, and make the most of opportunities.0 -
Stop showing off your French skills Brian. You'll impress nobody in L'arrêt de gâteau.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
😆briantrumpet said:rjsterry said:
You're trying to look at it as a coherent logical argument rather than a series of stock phrases and words arranged to trigger an emotional response.briantrumpet said:kingstongraham said:
I read it as "if we can just believe hard enough, Brexit will deliver what Tony Blair always dreamed of".surrey_commuter said:
so Brexit is a bit censored and it is all Blair's fault?kingstongraham said:This, however, is an astonishing way of trying to sell it in the Telegraph:
This is a grave situation for the Conservatives. The fact is that Brexit is a leap of faith. Amid widespread elite scepticism and renewed Remainer resistance, the project will fail unless the Tories can find a leader who believes in it enough to drive it forward. A leader who understands that Brexit – which fuses free market economics and sovereign populism – exemplifies the political Third Way that Tony Blair strove for but never found.
I'd not put Sherelle near the top of my list of persuasive writers, for all sort of reasons. I'm not sure her comprehension abilities, even reading back what she's just written, are terribly strong. Or maybe she does think that what she's written makes sense.
As @Stevo_666 would tell you, I'm ever the optimist.
That's right, Provide Frazer. Here's your commemorative stamp to celebrate your cheery optimism.
Au contraire, Stéphane six-cents-soixante-six, I've been optimistic that Brexit was not 'done' (other than in closed minds), and it seems, that, as you say, it pays to be optimistic, and make the most of opportunities."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
I'd prefer an 'arête de gâteau' - a cake big enough to climb over.Stevo_666 said:
Stop showing off your French skills Brian. You'll impress nobody in L'arrêt de gâteau.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
😆briantrumpet said:rjsterry said:
You're trying to look at it as a coherent logical argument rather than a series of stock phrases and words arranged to trigger an emotional response.briantrumpet said:kingstongraham said:
I read it as "if we can just believe hard enough, Brexit will deliver what Tony Blair always dreamed of".surrey_commuter said:
so Brexit is a bit censored and it is all Blair's fault?kingstongraham said:This, however, is an astonishing way of trying to sell it in the Telegraph:
This is a grave situation for the Conservatives. The fact is that Brexit is a leap of faith. Amid widespread elite scepticism and renewed Remainer resistance, the project will fail unless the Tories can find a leader who believes in it enough to drive it forward. A leader who understands that Brexit – which fuses free market economics and sovereign populism – exemplifies the political Third Way that Tony Blair strove for but never found.
I'd not put Sherelle near the top of my list of persuasive writers, for all sort of reasons. I'm not sure her comprehension abilities, even reading back what she's just written, are terribly strong. Or maybe she does think that what she's written makes sense.
As @Stevo_666 would tell you, I'm ever the optimist.
That's right, Provide Frazer. Here's your commemorative stamp to celebrate your cheery optimism.
Au contraire, Stéphane six-cents-soixante-six, I've been optimistic that Brexit was not 'done' (other than in closed minds), and it seems, that, as you say, it pays to be optimistic, and make the most of opportunities.1 -
This is a good thread, if not uplifting, from Peter Foster, once of the Telegraph, and now FT. It's basically saying the Brexit and dishonesty are inseperable.
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