BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Going to a fuel station your mate has texted you to say "only" had 10 minute queues and in your own words brimming it when you apparently weren't looking to fill up sounds very panic buying to me (or at least the definition being used by those claiming such behaviour was panic buying 10 days ago when we were being told it was such people causing the problems and not a lack of drivers).

Wrong again. I knew I needed petrol in the next week and I knew I could get it, but didn't fancy queuing for long. So rather than do a petrol station tour, I acted on a handy piece of info. Hopefully that helps you stop assuming as well?

Remember in the good old days when you could just drive to any petrol station at more or less any time and they would just have petrol? And the only queue would be at the till behind a guy deciding what fags he wanted.

In a little while people will have forgotten about this and be whingeing about something else.

Also quite amusing that some people are still trying to convince themelves that this is purely Brexit related.

Yes, was hilarious getting my elderly mother in law back home to Bristol without a car. I'm not really interested in the causes, it's still a failure that basic supplies like fuel aren't available.

I think I mentioned above that the motorway and dual carriage service stations were prioritised for obvious reason, so there appeared to be no real issues and I certainly didn't have any on a roundtrip to and from Liverpool - filled up at a BP station on the M1 near Derby and about a 60 second wait to get to the pump. So you could do it.

Great to know in hindsight. Far from certain at the time.

Depends when you were due to travel but it has been 'out there' since at least some time last week.

Before last week. Otherwise it wouldn't have been an issue. It wasn't the end of the world but it was a massive PITA made worse by idiot MPs telling people not to panic, which just guaranteed that they would.

rjsterry

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

Leading Brexiteer Lord Wolfson has an interesting idea to include market forces into our immigration policy. ake it illegal to pay immigrants less and have a 7% tax surcharge on all immigrants. His argument is that this would allow a better allocation of resources than a committee in Whitehall.

Less than what? The market salary inclusive of immigration?

As he pointed out, the first bit is already technically illegal. You can't offer employment at £X (or £Y if you are Polish).

rick_chasey

https://twitter.com/gideonrachman/status/1445651775562784773?s=21

briantrumpet

rick_chasey said:

https://twitter.com/gideonrachman/status/1445651775562784773?s=21

It's just a post facto 'rationalisation' of what's happening, to make it appear like it's a plan. A bit like the captain of the Titanic claiming that the need to use the lifeboats on the first voyage was necessary to get a safety certificate.

rick_chasey

By the way if you guys want a career change and don’t mind ever seeing anyone or doing anything like sleeping or cycling, IB and PE grad pay has absolutely sky rocketed

https://twitter.com/financialnews/status/1445856905390219265?s=21

skyblueamateur

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58820599

Is this not the type of business we should be trying to attract?

I applaud the sentiment of a 'high wage, high skilled' economy but this is a generational change and actually needs policies and incentives to business.

We need a plan for the short term hits on our supply chains and manufacture.

This government is all hot air, bluster and glib soundbites. It's pathetic.

I must be the only one who would rather punch myself in the face then listen to Johnsons 'jokes'. FFS.

john80

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

Leading Brexiteer Lord Wolfson has an interesting idea to include market forces into our immigration policy. ake it illegal to pay immigrants less and have a 7% tax surcharge on all immigrants. His argument is that this would allow a better allocation of resources than a committee in Whitehall.

Given the stats that have just come out on the gender pay gap I would love to know how they expect to enforce this.

Horrendously nativist policy. Suddenly my entire family here in the UK becomes 7% more expensive to employ? How is that efficient, let alone morally acceptable?

Get yourself a British passport and the surcharge goes away. Of course a man of your skills would not become unappealing with any surcharge surely. Being such a good recruiter and all that.

The13thcog

Nothing to do with Brexit Im afraid to say, despite what the removers like to suggest.

Friend of mine runs a big haulage company. A month before all this kicked off we were having a conversation about his business. He predicted this years ago and its nothing to do with Brexit, the problem with the lack of HGV drivers goes way back when the government slapped huge costs on training a driver up.

My friend moved his entire business to Holland and runs it out of there now and when I asked him why he explained that in the UK to train a driver now costs him somewhere in the region of £25-30k. Thats all because of the red-tape, taxation, forms, training etc. Whereas in Holland, he can pretty much do the whole thing for about £8k.

If you have a team of 50 drivers, what would you do?

And this was while we were IN the EU.

So sorry to burst anyones Brexit bubble, but this problem was created by the usual, greedy people in the UK government years ago. Its the same old story in this country, we bleed anything dry financially and then when the sh*t hits the fans we throw money back at it to prop it up.

We never seem to learn.

rick_chasey

You are Tito and ICMFP

kingstongraham

The13thcog said:

Nothing to do with Brexit Im afraid to say, despite what the removers like to suggest.

Friend of mine runs a big haulage company. A month before all this kicked off we were having a conversation about his business. He predicted this years ago and its nothing to do with Brexit, the problem with the lack of HGV drivers goes way back when the government slapped huge costs on training a driver up.

My friend moved his entire business to Holland and runs it out of there now and when I asked him why he explained that in the UK to train a driver now costs him somewhere in the region of £25-30k. Thats all because of the red-tape, taxation, forms, training etc. Whereas in Holland, he can pretty much do the whole thing for about £8k.

If you have a team of 50 drivers, what would you do?

And this was while we were IN the EU.

So sorry to burst anyones Brexit bubble, but this problem was created by the usual, greedy people in the UK government years ago. Its the same old story in this country, we bleed anything dry financially and then when the sh*t hits the fans we throw money back at it to prop it up.

We never seem to learn.

So you are saying that it's easier to train and hire drivers in the EU than in the UK, but leaving the EU and making it more difficult to use drivers from the EU can't be a factor in the UK currently having a shortage of available drivers?

rjsterry

skyblueamateur said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58820599

Is this not the type of business we should be trying to attract?

I applaud the sentiment of a 'high wage, high skilled' economy but this is a generational change and actually needs policies and incentives to business.

We need a plan for the short term hits on our supply chains and manufacture.

This government is all hot air, bluster and glib soundbites. It's pathetic.

I must be the only one who would rather punch myself in the face then listen to Johnsons 'jokes'. FFS.

"Economically illiterate" - the Adam Smith Institute.

The Columbus joke was apparently originally told by the late Charles Kennedy.

pblakeney

The13thcog said:

Nothing to do with Brexit Im afraid to say, despite what the removers like to suggest.

Friend of mine runs a big haulage company. A month before all this kicked off we were having a conversation about his business. He predicted this years ago and its nothing to do with Brexit, the problem with the lack of HGV drivers goes way back when the government slapped huge costs on training a driver up.

My friend moved his entire business to Holland and runs it out of there now and when I asked him why he explained that in the UK to train a driver now costs him somewhere in the region of £25-30k. Thats all because of the red-tape, taxation, forms, training etc. Whereas in Holland, he can pretty much do the whole thing for about £8k.

If you have a team of 50 drivers, what would you do?

And this was while we were IN the EU.

So sorry to burst anyones Brexit bubble, but this problem was created by the usual, greedy people in the UK government years ago. Its the same old story in this country, we bleed anything dry financially and then when the sh*t hits the fans we throw money back at it to prop it up.

We never seem to learn.

What you are saying is that since leaving the EU we can no longer use your mate's business. Helpful, isn't it.
PS - Leaving the EU was never the solution to the UK's problems but it is too late for that now.

rjsterry

The13thcog said:

Nothing to do with Brexit Im afraid to say, despite what the removers like to suggest.

Friend of mine runs a big haulage company. A month before all this kicked off we were having a conversation about his business. He predicted this years ago and its nothing to do with Brexit, the problem with the lack of HGV drivers goes way back when the government slapped huge costs on training a driver up.

My friend moved his entire business to Holland and runs it out of there now and when I asked him why he explained that in the UK to train a driver now costs him somewhere in the region of £25-30k. Thats all because of the red-tape, taxation, forms, training etc. Whereas in Holland, he can pretty much do the whole thing for about £8k.

If you have a team of 50 drivers, what would you do?

And this was while we were IN the EU.

So sorry to burst anyones Brexit bubble, but this problem was created by the usual, greedy people in the UK government years ago. Its the same old story in this country, we bleed anything dry financially and then when the sh*t hits the fans we throw money back at it to prop it up.

We never seem to learn.

I'm finding the idea that £25k is 'a lot' to train someone to drive a truck a bit much. How much do you think most skilled jobs cost to train?

joenobody

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Going to a fuel station your mate has texted you to say "only" had 10 minute queues and in your own words brimming it when you apparently weren't looking to fill up sounds very panic buying to me (or at least the definition being used by those claiming such behaviour was panic buying 10 days ago when we were being told it was such people causing the problems and not a lack of drivers).

Wrong again. I knew I needed petrol in the next week and I knew I could get it, but didn't fancy queuing for long. So rather than do a petrol station tour, I acted on a handy piece of info. Hopefully that helps you stop assuming as well?

Remember in the good old days when you could just drive to any petrol station at more or less any time and they would just have petrol? And the only queue would be at the till behind a guy deciding what fags he wanted.

In a little while people will have forgotten about this and be whingeing about something else.

Also quite amusing that some people are still trying to convince themelves that this is purely Brexit related.

Yes, was hilarious getting my elderly mother in law back home to Bristol without a car. I'm not really interested in the causes, it's still a failure that basic supplies like fuel aren't available.

I think I mentioned above that the motorway and dual carriage service stations were prioritised for obvious reason, so there appeared to be no real issues and I certainly didn't have any on a roundtrip to and from Liverpool - filled up at a BP station on the M1 near Derby and about a 60 second wait to get to the pump. So you could do it.

Great to know in hindsight. Far from certain at the time.

Depends when you were due to travel but it has been 'out there' since at least some time last week.

There are definitely fuel supply issues at M1 services (maybe also M40), as recent as yesterday and depending on your choice of vehicle. I drove from Nottingham to Reading and saw signs for every service station I passed stating one of the following issues:

No fuel
No HGV fuel
Only HGV fuel

I didn't need to fill up, although it looked like I could have done in Nottingham itself, but no chance once I got home as all local petrol stations that I passed were closed. With hindsight I should have made the time to fill up before I left as I'll likely need to go back up there next week and it'll be tight with what I have left in the tank.

john80

rjsterry said:

The13thcog said:

Nothing to do with Brexit Im afraid to say, despite what the removers like to suggest.

Friend of mine runs a big haulage company. A month before all this kicked off we were having a conversation about his business. He predicted this years ago and its nothing to do with Brexit, the problem with the lack of HGV drivers goes way back when the government slapped huge costs on training a driver up.

My friend moved his entire business to Holland and runs it out of there now and when I asked him why he explained that in the UK to train a driver now costs him somewhere in the region of £25-30k. Thats all because of the red-tape, taxation, forms, training etc. Whereas in Holland, he can pretty much do the whole thing for about £8k.

If you have a team of 50 drivers, what would you do?

And this was while we were IN the EU.

So sorry to burst anyones Brexit bubble, but this problem was created by the usual, greedy people in the UK government years ago. Its the same old story in this country, we bleed anything dry financially and then when the sh*t hits the fans we throw money back at it to prop it up.

We never seem to learn.

I'm finding the idea that £25k is 'a lot' to train someone to drive a truck a bit much. How much do you think most skilled jobs cost to train?

You can get your articulated license from two four day training courses and two assessments. However you can also get it from doing an apprentice program for some company's over a year or less. To get to 25k you would have to be paying a lot or having a lot of retests. Technically you could turn up to the two tests with no practice and give it a go but the success rate might not be great.

rjsterry

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

The13thcog said:

Nothing to do with Brexit Im afraid to say, despite what the removers like to suggest.

Friend of mine runs a big haulage company. A month before all this kicked off we were having a conversation about his business. He predicted this years ago and its nothing to do with Brexit, the problem with the lack of HGV drivers goes way back when the government slapped huge costs on training a driver up.

My friend moved his entire business to Holland and runs it out of there now and when I asked him why he explained that in the UK to train a driver now costs him somewhere in the region of £25-30k. Thats all because of the red-tape, taxation, forms, training etc. Whereas in Holland, he can pretty much do the whole thing for about £8k.

If you have a team of 50 drivers, what would you do?

And this was while we were IN the EU.

So sorry to burst anyones Brexit bubble, but this problem was created by the usual, greedy people in the UK government years ago. Its the same old story in this country, we bleed anything dry financially and then when the sh*t hits the fans we throw money back at it to prop it up.

We never seem to learn.

I'm finding the idea that £25k is 'a lot' to train someone to drive a truck a bit much. How much do you think most skilled jobs cost to train?

You can get your articulated license from two four day training courses and two assessments. However you can also get it from doing an apprentice program for some company's over a year or less. To get to 25k you would have to be paying a lot or having a lot of retests. Technically you could turn up to the two tests with no practice and give it a go but the success rate might not be great.

It's certainly at the higher end of costs I've seen, but even so, sounds comparable with training costs for other skilled jobs.

john80

rjsterry said:

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

The13thcog said:

Nothing to do with Brexit Im afraid to say, despite what the removers like to suggest.

Friend of mine runs a big haulage company. A month before all this kicked off we were having a conversation about his business. He predicted this years ago and its nothing to do with Brexit, the problem with the lack of HGV drivers goes way back when the government slapped huge costs on training a driver up.

My friend moved his entire business to Holland and runs it out of there now and when I asked him why he explained that in the UK to train a driver now costs him somewhere in the region of £25-30k. Thats all because of the red-tape, taxation, forms, training etc. Whereas in Holland, he can pretty much do the whole thing for about £8k.

If you have a team of 50 drivers, what would you do?

And this was while we were IN the EU.

So sorry to burst anyones Brexit bubble, but this problem was created by the usual, greedy people in the UK government years ago. Its the same old story in this country, we bleed anything dry financially and then when the sh*t hits the fans we throw money back at it to prop it up.

We never seem to learn.

I'm finding the idea that £25k is 'a lot' to train someone to drive a truck a bit much. How much do you think most skilled jobs cost to train?

You can get your articulated license from two four day training courses and two assessments. However you can also get it from doing an apprentice program for some company's over a year or less. To get to 25k you would have to be paying a lot or having a lot of retests. Technically you could turn up to the two tests with no practice and give it a go but the success rate might not be great.

It's certainly at the higher end of costs I've seen, but even so, sounds comparable with training costs for other skilled jobs.

It is amusing that the businesses that make money out of these qualifications don't seem to want to train their staff. Looking at how many offers their are out on the web for training and loans for said training it does seem that businesses want to load this onto the applicant.

Stevo_666

joenobody said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Going to a fuel station your mate has texted you to say "only" had 10 minute queues and in your own words brimming it when you apparently weren't looking to fill up sounds very panic buying to me (or at least the definition being used by those claiming such behaviour was panic buying 10 days ago when we were being told it was such people causing the problems and not a lack of drivers).

Wrong again. I knew I needed petrol in the next week and I knew I could get it, but didn't fancy queuing for long. So rather than do a petrol station tour, I acted on a handy piece of info. Hopefully that helps you stop assuming as well?

Remember in the good old days when you could just drive to any petrol station at more or less any time and they would just have petrol? And the only queue would be at the till behind a guy deciding what fags he wanted.

In a little while people will have forgotten about this and be whingeing about something else.

Also quite amusing that some people are still trying to convince themelves that this is purely Brexit related.

Yes, was hilarious getting my elderly mother in law back home to Bristol without a car. I'm not really interested in the causes, it's still a failure that basic supplies like fuel aren't available.

I think I mentioned above that the motorway and dual carriage service stations were prioritised for obvious reason, so there appeared to be no real issues and I certainly didn't have any on a roundtrip to and from Liverpool - filled up at a BP station on the M1 near Derby and about a 60 second wait to get to the pump. So you could do it.

Great to know in hindsight. Far from certain at the time.

Depends when you were due to travel but it has been 'out there' since at least some time last week.

There are definitely fuel supply issues at M1 services (maybe also M40), as recent as yesterday and depending on your choice of vehicle. I drove from Nottingham to Reading and saw signs for every service station I passed stating one of the following issues:

No fuel
No HGV fuel
Only HGV fuel

I didn't need to fill up, although it looked like I could have done in Nottingham itself, but no chance once I got home as all local petrol stations that I passed were closed. With hindsight I should have made the time to fill up before I left as I'll likely need to go back up there next week and it'll be tight with what I have left in the tank.

Maybe they've moved some down here as I filled my OH's car in Bromley this morning no problem. Although depends what time you're out - given the number of people still hoovering up as much as they can get their mits on, a lot of stations run out in the evening and have to wait for the next delivery.

joenobody

Stevo_666 said:

Maybe they've moved some down here as I filled my OH's car in Bromley this morning no problem. Although depends what time you're out - given the number of people still hoovering up as much as they can get their mits on, a lot of stations run out in the evening and have to wait for the next delivery.

Was mid-afternoon and, to be fair, I didn't see any warnings on the way up (early morning the day before). Both my local fills were early morning, but both lucky strikes in as far as I didn't know there was fuel where I went before going there.

surrey_commuter

Does anybody else feel like they have fallen into a strange reality TV show where we get to experience the joys of living in Soviet Russia? Empty shelves, queues for petrol and travelling abroad made difficult.

TheBigBean

surrey_commuter said:

Does anybody else feel like they have fallen into a strange reality TV show where we get to experience the joys of living in Soviet Russia? Empty shelves, queues for petrol and travelling abroad made difficult.

I'm guessing you never went to soviet Russia.

briantrumpet

surrey_commuter said:

Does anybody else feel like they have fallen into a strange reality TV show where we get to experience the joys of living in Soviet Russia? Empty shelves, queues for petrol and travelling abroad made difficult.

Well, I couldn't get my creme fraiche in the local Co-op last night, so, yeah.

TheBigBean

I went to free market Russia and bought a train journey ticket on my credit card. At the time there were about 8 roubles to the dollar, but by the time the transaction cleared the rate was about 25 to the dollar, so it was seriously cheap, and actually quite comfortable, train journey.

What I didn't do though was check the sparkling water situation.

pinkbikini

Still hard to get fuel in many parts of Greater London. I don’t think you can accuse people of ‘hoovering up’ or ‘panic buying’ after two weeks - it’s a systemic supply chain issue.
Similarly, have been walking to our local Waitrose every day and noticed more and more empty spots on shelves. Not seen a single person stockpiling pasta, toilet paper or anything else.
Easy to blame Brexit, of course, but equally easy to blame covid and, of course, the govt and the implementation of IR35. These issues were not unexpected. Luckily we’ve still got Spaffer and his jokes, as though he’s guest speaker at the Bullingdon. Dead pigs piling up is probably quite a turn-on to that lot.
As an aside, the tax take from IR35 private sector reforms seems to work out as an extra £1bn per year (up to 2024). Does anyone have any useful links to how Sunak/Treasury made that calc? I can’t find anything…

kingstongraham

Heard someone on the radio in Lebanon. They had 11 hour queues for petrol, but that's been solved by tripling the price to 95p per litre. There's also no electricity, so no traffic lights or street lights.

kingstongraham

pinkbikini said:

Not seen a single person stockpiling pasta, toilet paper or anything else.
…

Ironically, there are reports the price of gas and electricity might actually cause a reduction in the supply of loo roll this winter, so get your panic buying in early.

briantrumpet

kingstongraham said:

pinkbikini said:

Not seen a single person stockpiling pasta, toilet paper or anything else.
…

Ironically, there are reports the price of gas and electricity might actually cause a reduction in the supply of loo roll this winter, so get your panic buying in early.

I'm OK till June 2022.

pblakeney

briantrumpet said:

kingstongraham said:

pinkbikini said:

Not seen a single person stockpiling pasta, toilet paper or anything else.
…

Ironically, there are reports the price of gas and electricity might actually cause a reduction in the supply of loo roll this winter, so get your panic buying in early.

I'm OK till June 2022.

Never mind.

rick_chasey

https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1446149096536956933?s=21

🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

surrey_commuter

pinkbikini said:

Still hard to get fuel in many parts of Greater London. I don’t think you can accuse people of ‘hoovering up’ or ‘panic buying’ after two weeks - it’s a systemic supply chain issue.
Similarly, have been walking to our local Waitrose every day and noticed more and more empty spots on shelves. Not seen a single person stockpiling pasta, toilet paper or anything else.
Easy to blame Brexit, of course, but equally easy to blame covid and, of course, the govt and the implementation of IR35. These issues were not unexpected. Luckily we’ve still got Spaffer and his jokes, as though he’s guest speaker at the Bullingdon. Dead pigs piling up is probably quite a turn-on to that lot.
As an aside, the tax take from IR35 private sector reforms seems to work out as an extra £1bn per year (up to 2024). Does anyone have any useful links to how Sunak/Treasury made that calc? I can’t find anything…

They have been rolling it out so should be able to get an accurate forecast.

I am all in favour of the reforms and should go further with the self employed. Timing leaves a little to be desire but if you delayed it every time the clowns damaged the circus nothing would ever get done.