BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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And I suspect there are no votes in promising to preserve the UnionJezyboy said:
What are the options if the protocol gets voted out.TheBigBean said:
@tailwindhome lives in the same country. The question is whether his Bailey's consumption will have any impact on the EU, and whether this impact is sufficiently material to risk the peace.ddraver said:It's got milk
Milk goes off
Gone off milk makes people sick
You want to check that products entering your country won't make people sick
None of this is controversial
Furthermore, if sausage rolls and Baileys are such high risk items, then the protocol may well be voted out in four years.
I had thought the current rules were a fairly natural result of starting off at a flow chart where your inputs are no visible land border, the UK not being in a Customs Union and there not being magic technology to implement an invisible border.
It's conceivable that different sets of negotiating teams and policiticians may be moe flexible and have less bad blood between them I guess. But it's difficult to see anyone in the UK gaining political power through arguing to be "softer" towards EU negotiations.0 -
It’d be interesting to see survey stats from mainland brits on the NI issue.surrey_commuter said:
And I suspect there are no votes in promising to preserve the UnionJezyboy said:
What are the options if the protocol gets voted out.TheBigBean said:
@tailwindhome lives in the same country. The question is whether his Bailey's consumption will have any impact on the EU, and whether this impact is sufficiently material to risk the peace.ddraver said:It's got milk
Milk goes off
Gone off milk makes people sick
You want to check that products entering your country won't make people sick
None of this is controversial
Furthermore, if sausage rolls and Baileys are such high risk items, then the protocol may well be voted out in four years.
I had thought the current rules were a fairly natural result of starting off at a flow chart where your inputs are no visible land border, the UK not being in a Customs Union and there not being magic technology to implement an invisible border.
It's conceivable that different sets of negotiating teams and policiticians may be moe flexible and have less bad blood between them I guess. But it's difficult to see anyone in the UK gaining political power through arguing to be "softer" towards EU negotiations.
Personally, I am sympathetic to those in NI who identify as British but view the whole situation as a throwback to our imperial past that probably should be corrected.
But that is just a layman’s opinion with no in depth knowledge of the history.
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If the UK position was not driven by ideology it would have been very easy to agree to maintain EU standards and to give 12 months notice of any deviation that we intend to make.Jezyboy said:
What are the options if the protocol gets voted out.TheBigBean said:
@tailwindhome lives in the same country. The question is whether his Bailey's consumption will have any impact on the EU, and whether this impact is sufficiently material to risk the peace.ddraver said:It's got milk
Milk goes off
Gone off milk makes people sick
You want to check that products entering your country won't make people sick
None of this is controversial
Furthermore, if sausage rolls and Baileys are such high risk items, then the protocol may well be voted out in four years.
I had thought the current rules were a fairly natural result of starting off at a flow chart where your inputs are no visible land border, the UK not being in a Customs Union and there not being magic technology to implement an invisible border.
It's conceivable that different sets of negotiating teams and policiticians may be moe flexible and have less bad blood between them I guess. But it's difficult to see anyone in the UK gaining political power through arguing to be "softer" towards EU negotiations.0 -
Or we could stop the stupidly objecting to sensible workable ideas - like signing up to the SPS rules - just because they have the letters EU attached to them.TheBigBean said:
@tailwindhome lives in the same country. The question is whether his Bailey's consumption will have any impact on the EU, and whether this impact is sufficiently material to risk the peace.ddraver said:It's got milk
Milk goes off
Gone off milk makes people sick
You want to check that products entering your country won't make people sick
None of this is controversial
Furthermore, if sausage rolls and Baileys are such high risk items, then the protocol may well be voted out in four years.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Or seeing as technology was always the magic wand, why isn’t this still being pursued?surrey_commuter said:
If the UK position was not driven by ideology it would have been very easy to agree to maintain EU standards and to give 12 months notice of any deviation that we intend to make.Jezyboy said:
What are the options if the protocol gets voted out.TheBigBean said:
@tailwindhome lives in the same country. The question is whether his Bailey's consumption will have any impact on the EU, and whether this impact is sufficiently material to risk the peace.ddraver said:It's got milk
Milk goes off
Gone off milk makes people sick
You want to check that products entering your country won't make people sick
None of this is controversial
Furthermore, if sausage rolls and Baileys are such high risk items, then the protocol may well be voted out in four years.
I had thought the current rules were a fairly natural result of starting off at a flow chart where your inputs are no visible land border, the UK not being in a Customs Union and there not being magic technology to implement an invisible border.
It's conceivable that different sets of negotiating teams and policiticians may be moe flexible and have less bad blood between them I guess. But it's difficult to see anyone in the UK gaining political power through arguing to be "softer" towards EU negotiations.
Just because the tech wasn’t ready for Brexit deadline doesn’t mean it can’t be part of an actual solution.
It’s almost as if they never had a plan and hoped some magic technology would get them out of their mess.
If they could make it work, I’m sure it would be a marketable product to speed at customs at lots of other borders.0 -
The fact that it doesn't exist despite the hundreds of customs borders around the world, would suggest that it can't realistically be made to work.morstar said:
Or seeing as technology was always the magic wand, why isn’t this still being pursued?surrey_commuter said:
If the UK position was not driven by ideology it would have been very easy to agree to maintain EU standards and to give 12 months notice of any deviation that we intend to make.Jezyboy said:
What are the options if the protocol gets voted out.TheBigBean said:
@tailwindhome lives in the same country. The question is whether his Bailey's consumption will have any impact on the EU, and whether this impact is sufficiently material to risk the peace.ddraver said:It's got milk
Milk goes off
Gone off milk makes people sick
You want to check that products entering your country won't make people sick
None of this is controversial
Furthermore, if sausage rolls and Baileys are such high risk items, then the protocol may well be voted out in four years.
I had thought the current rules were a fairly natural result of starting off at a flow chart where your inputs are no visible land border, the UK not being in a Customs Union and there not being magic technology to implement an invisible border.
It's conceivable that different sets of negotiating teams and policiticians may be moe flexible and have less bad blood between them I guess. But it's difficult to see anyone in the UK gaining political power through arguing to be "softer" towards EU negotiations.
Just because the tech wasn’t ready for Brexit deadline doesn’t mean it can’t be part of an actual solution.
It’s almost as if they never had a plan and hoped some magic technology would get them out of their mess.
If they could make it work, I’m sure it would be a marketable product to speed at customs at lots of other borders.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
But a different epidemiological unit.TheBigBean said:
@tailwindhome lives in the same country.ddraver said:It's got milk
Milk goes off
Gone off milk makes people sick
You want to check that products entering your country won't make people sick
None of this is controversial
See Foot & Mouth, 2001
GB Cases ~2000
Island of Ireland - 1
(you might have thought we'd have learned something about borders and pandemics from it but...hey ho 🙄)We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
That would be an example of a material risk. What material risks do you see from Tailwindhome's clients consuming Baileys in the same country?ddraver said:
But a different epidemiological unit.TheBigBean said:
@tailwindhome lives in the same country.ddraver said:It's got milk
Milk goes off
Gone off milk makes people sick
You want to check that products entering your country won't make people sick
None of this is controversial
See Foot & Mouth, 2001
GB Cases ~2000
Island of Ireland - 1
(you might have thought we'd have learned something about borders and pandemics from it but...hey ho 🙄)0 -
UK and ROI ideally, but I'd imagine that compromises could be had under the existing protocol. For example, Baileys could be labelled as "not for consumption in EU" if shipped from GB to NI. If tailwindhome imported this and then sold it on into the EU, it should be a criminal matter - one that good paperwork would offer protection against.kingstongraham said:
For trade between who?TheBigBean said:
In the paperwork and labelling.kingstongraham said:
Where would you put the non-tariff barriers?TheBigBean said:
@tailwindhome lives in the same country. The question is whether his Bailey's consumption will have any impact on the EU, and whether this impact is sufficiently material to risk the peace.ddraver said:It's got milk
Milk goes off
Gone off milk makes people sick
You want to check that products entering your country won't make people sick
None of this is controversial
Furthermore, if sausage rolls and Baileys are such high risk items, then the protocol may well be voted out in four years.
If the UK bans foie gras I would expect it to be banned in NI as well. Someone could still easily transport it across the border, but they would need to find a buyer.0 -
I agree. It irks me that they have just got away with turning their back on this snake oil they peddled for years.rjsterry said:
The fact that it doesn't exist despite the hundreds of customs borders around the world, would suggest that it can't realistically be made to work.morstar said:
Or seeing as technology was always the magic wand, why isn’t this still being pursued?surrey_commuter said:
If the UK position was not driven by ideology it would have been very easy to agree to maintain EU standards and to give 12 months notice of any deviation that we intend to make.Jezyboy said:
What are the options if the protocol gets voted out.TheBigBean said:
@tailwindhome lives in the same country. The question is whether his Bailey's consumption will have any impact on the EU, and whether this impact is sufficiently material to risk the peace.ddraver said:It's got milk
Milk goes off
Gone off milk makes people sick
You want to check that products entering your country won't make people sick
None of this is controversial
Furthermore, if sausage rolls and Baileys are such high risk items, then the protocol may well be voted out in four years.
I had thought the current rules were a fairly natural result of starting off at a flow chart where your inputs are no visible land border, the UK not being in a Customs Union and there not being magic technology to implement an invisible border.
It's conceivable that different sets of negotiating teams and policiticians may be moe flexible and have less bad blood between them I guess. But it's difficult to see anyone in the UK gaining political power through arguing to be "softer" towards EU negotiations.
Just because the tech wasn’t ready for Brexit deadline doesn’t mean it can’t be part of an actual solution.
It’s almost as if they never had a plan and hoped some magic technology would get them out of their mess.
If they could make it work, I’m sure it would be a marketable product to speed at customs at lots of other borders.0 -
I think we decided years ago that this was indeed their "plan". Putting their heads in the sand. It was deemed unworkable then and evidence shows that it is still unworkable.morstar said:
It’s almost as if they never had a plan and hoped some magic technology would get them out of their mess.
#cakeandeatit
#dreamers
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I forsee votes for politicians who would rather lie in front of a bulldozer or be dead in a ditch, than threatened the union. But who don't have any specific ideas for its preservation.surrey_commuter said:
And I suspect there are no votes in promising to preserve the UnionJezyboy said:
What are the options if the protocol gets voted out.TheBigBean said:
@tailwindhome lives in the same country. The question is whether his Bailey's consumption will have any impact on the EU, and whether this impact is sufficiently material to risk the peace.ddraver said:It's got milk
Milk goes off
Gone off milk makes people sick
You want to check that products entering your country won't make people sick
None of this is controversial
Furthermore, if sausage rolls and Baileys are such high risk items, then the protocol may well be voted out in four years.
I had thought the current rules were a fairly natural result of starting off at a flow chart where your inputs are no visible land border, the UK not being in a Customs Union and there not being magic technology to implement an invisible border.
It's conceivable that different sets of negotiating teams and policiticians may be moe flexible and have less bad blood between them I guess. But it's difficult to see anyone in the UK gaining political power through arguing to be "softer" towards EU negotiations.0 -
While Baileys itself might not present much of an SPS risk, the cream that goes into it does. History has plenty of examples of where lax biosecurity has had serious consequences, usually preceded by people claiming the risks are exaggerated.TheBigBean said:
That would be an example of a material risk. What material risks do you see from Tailwindhome's clients consuming Baileys in the same country?ddraver said:
But a different epidemiological unit.TheBigBean said:
@tailwindhome lives in the same country.ddraver said:It's got milk
Milk goes off
Gone off milk makes people sick
You want to check that products entering your country won't make people sick
None of this is controversial
See Foot & Mouth, 2001
GB Cases ~2000
Island of Ireland - 1
(you might have thought we'd have learned something about borders and pandemics from it but...hey ho 🙄)1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I dunno - take it up with the WTO...TheBigBean said:
That would be an example of a material risk. What material risks do you see from Tailwindhome's clients consuming Baileys in the same country?ddraver said:
But a different epidemiological unit.TheBigBean said:
@tailwindhome lives in the same country.ddraver said:It's got milk
Milk goes off
Gone off milk makes people sick
You want to check that products entering your country won't make people sick
None of this is controversial
See Foot & Mouth, 2001
GB Cases ~2000
Island of Ireland - 1
(you might have thought we'd have learned something about borders and pandemics from it but...hey ho 🙄)
(remember them?..)We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Point is why a vet is needed to certify cream?kingstongraham said:
You said it was a classic EU rule. But an EHC is (and has been) needed for exports of animal products to non-EU countries.Stevo_666 said:
You'll have to explain that link, as it isn't obvious what point you're trying to make with it.kingstongraham said:
Have you not been paying attention?Stevo_666 said:
Just seemed odd as vets generally specialise in live animals, not dead animal produce. Like I said, classic EU rule.tailwindhome said:
Dunno tbh.Stevo_666 said:
Certify that it is what though?tailwindhome said:
CreamStevo_666 said:
A worthy EU rule.tailwindhome said:Logistics manager doing his nut at work because he can't get a load of Baileys from a supplier in England onto a ferry
Needs a vet certificate before it can be moved
In all likelihood it originated in Belfast before being delivered to England.
What exactly does the vet have to certify in relation to bottles of Baileys?
Anything of animal origin needs a veterinary health certificate. What that checks specifically I've no idea. I do believe it's not just an EU thing and is standard across borders in different SPS regulatory environments. The UK will insist on the same from the EU (when the systems are set up) as it does from other countries
It's a huge problem for the NI Protocol as a Tesco lorry may contain 100s of product lines each requiring a cert.
EDIT It's an 'Export Health Certificate that the product meets EU regulations
https://www.google.com/amp/s/spice-spotlight.scot/2020/11/30/after-the-transition-period-export-health-certificates/amp/
Anyway. http://apha.defra.gov.uk/official-vets/Guidance/exports/ehc-online.htm
It's not just for EU countries, but EU countries still require them. Think we need them from other countries too.
Depends on the destination and product. We're not in the EU and the agreement doesn't cover it, so exporters need it."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Very true, although betrays a certain lack of self awareness on his partmorstar said:
That wins the internet for today.kingstongraham said:Some people need to accept that we've left and stop moaning about it.
I feel a whoosh moment coming on though.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I'm sure this is a key issue for bottles of Baileys.rjsterry said:
🙄 No, they're heavily involved in that, too. For pretty obvious reasons*. It's not exclusively an EU rule; it's fairly standard where animal products are shipped from one territory to another. NAFTA has an SPS regime, too. But for ideological opposition to anything EU, we'd ordinarily be getting on and negotiating an SPS agreement.Stevo_666 said:
Just seemed odd as vets generally specialise in live animals, not dead animal produce. Like I said, classic EU rule.tailwindhome said:
Dunno tbh.Stevo_666 said:
Certify that it is what though?tailwindhome said:
CreamStevo_666 said:
A worthy EU rule.tailwindhome said:Logistics manager doing his nut at work because he can't get a load of Baileys from a supplier in England onto a ferry
Needs a vet certificate before it can be moved
In all likelihood it originated in Belfast before being delivered to England.
What exactly does the vet have to certify in relation to bottles of Baileys?
Anything of animal origin needs a veterinary health certificate. What that checks specifically I've no idea. I do believe it's not just an EU thing and is standard across borders in different SPS regulatory environments. The UK will insist on the same from the EU (when the systems are set up) as it does from other countries
It's a huge problem for the NI Protocol as a Tesco lorry may contain 100s of product lines each requiring a cert.
EDIT It's an 'Export Health Certificate that the product meets EU regulations
https://www.google.com/amp/s/spice-spotlight.scot/2020/11/30/after-the-transition-period-export-health-certificates/amp/
*In case they're not: SPS regimes are intended to contain any outbreaks of disease, so that they don't spread and wreak havoc with our entire food production system. Animal-based food products are an almost perfect way to spread a disease around geographically and across species. See BSE as an example. Vets have the necessary knowledge of microbiology and disease control and are already involved in the husbandry and slaughter of animals for consumption, so it's a small side step to certifying animal products for export."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
You're assuming too much again.pinkbikini said:
Isn’t the issue that you (like me) have no idea why the rule is there? But you choose the blame the EU, rather than find out why the rule is there in the first place. Not very logical really.Stevo_666 said:
Just seemed odd as vets generally specialise in live animals, not dead animal produce. Like I said, classic EU rule.tailwindhome said:
Dunno tbh.Stevo_666 said:
Certify that it is what though?tailwindhome said:
CreamStevo_666 said:
A worthy EU rule.tailwindhome said:Logistics manager doing his nut at work because he can't get a load of Baileys from a supplier in England onto a ferry
Needs a vet certificate before it can be moved
In all likelihood it originated in Belfast before being delivered to England.
What exactly does the vet have to certify in relation to bottles of Baileys?
Anything of animal origin needs a veterinary health certificate. What that checks specifically I've no idea. I do believe it's not just an EU thing and is standard across borders in different SPS regulatory environments. The UK will insist on the same from the EU (when the systems are set up) as it does from other countries
It's a huge problem for the NI Protocol as a Tesco lorry may contain 100s of product lines each requiring a cert.
EDIT It's an 'Export Health Certificate that the product meets EU regulations
https://www.google.com/amp/s/spice-spotlight.scot/2020/11/30/after-the-transition-period-export-health-certificates/amp/"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I think you are missing the point. It isn't a normal border, the protocol is supposed to reduce the checks as much as possible.ddraver said:
I dunno - take it up with the WTO...TheBigBean said:
That would be an example of a material risk. What material risks do you see from Tailwindhome's clients consuming Baileys in the same country?ddraver said:
But a different epidemiological unit.TheBigBean said:
@tailwindhome lives in the same country.ddraver said:It's got milk
Milk goes off
Gone off milk makes people sick
You want to check that products entering your country won't make people sick
None of this is controversial
See Foot & Mouth, 2001
GB Cases ~2000
Island of Ireland - 1
(you might have thought we'd have learned something about borders and pandemics from it but...hey ho 🙄)
(remember them?..)
0 -
Well that was quite a reaction to a throw away comment about EU rules. Seems to be a certain amount of sensitivity on the issue?
I know KG likes to argue for the sake of it, but I didn't expect so many to join in "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I'd suggest that stevo rolls a dice to decide which tired old trope he's going to trot out so he can pretend he's won, but I'm not sure there are actually 6 options.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
I'm not arguing. Just stating a fact.Stevo_666 said:Well that was quite a reaction to a throw away comment about EU rules. Seems to be a certain amount of sensitivity on the issue?
I know KG likes to argue for the sake of it, but I didn't expect so many to join in0 -
You think?Stevo_666 said:
Very true, although betrays a certain lack of self awareness on his partmorstar said:
That wins the internet for today.kingstongraham said:Some people need to accept that we've left and stop moaning about it.
I feel a whoosh moment coming on though.0 -
There it is. Whoosh.Stevo_666 said:
Very true, although betrays a certain lack of self awareness on his partmorstar said:
That wins the internet for today.kingstongraham said:Some people need to accept that we've left and stop moaning about it.
I feel a whoosh moment coming on though.0 -
I'm well aware of what he was trying to saymorstar said:
There it is. Whoosh.Stevo_666 said:
Very true, although betrays a certain lack of self awareness on his partmorstar said:
That wins the internet for today.kingstongraham said:Some people need to accept that we've left and stop moaning about it.
I feel a whoosh moment coming on though. No smartarse points for you today. "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
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I expected you would chip in with a bit of peripheral trolling in a situation like this. And I was right...pangolin said:I'd suggest that stevo rolls a dice to decide which tired old trope he's going to trot out so he can pretend he's won, but I'm not sure there are actually 6 options.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
It would be a valid argument that someone messed up in not agreeing a common sps regime in the trade agreement so we wouldn't be treated the same as all non-EU countries. Or that someone messed up in not getting that in somehow in the ni protocol.0
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I think you're reading too much into my original statement.kingstongraham said:It would be a valid argument that someone messed up in not agreeing a common sps regime in the trade agreement so we wouldn't be treated the same as all non-EU countries. Or that someone messed up in not getting that in somehow in the ni protocol.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
He’s giving you a ladder.Stevo_666 said:
I think you're reading too much into my original statement.kingstongraham said:It would be a valid argument that someone messed up in not agreeing a common sps regime in the trade agreement so we wouldn't be treated the same as all non-EU countries. Or that someone messed up in not getting that in somehow in the ni protocol.
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