BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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I've forgotten what you wrote. The whole NI is just an interesting area.Stevo_666 said:
I think you're reading too much into my original statement.kingstongraham said:It would be a valid argument that someone messed up in not agreeing a common sps regime in the trade agreement so we wouldn't be treated the same as all non-EU countries. Or that someone messed up in not getting that in somehow in the ni protocol.
Do you agree though?
Edit: remembered that you were surprised that vet certs were needed for animal products. You really haven't been paying attention at all.0 -
Your example doesn’t solve anything as who is checking the paperwork and where?TheBigBean said:
UK and ROI ideally, but I'd imagine that compromises could be had under the existing protocol. For example, Baileys could be labelled as "not for consumption in EU" if shipped from GB to NI. If tailwindhome imported this and then sold it on into the EU, it should be a criminal matter - one that good paperwork would offer protection against.kingstongraham said:
For trade between who?TheBigBean said:
In the paperwork and labelling.kingstongraham said:
Where would you put the non-tariff barriers?TheBigBean said:
@tailwindhome lives in the same country. The question is whether his Bailey's consumption will have any impact on the EU, and whether this impact is sufficiently material to risk the peace.ddraver said:It's got milk
Milk goes off
Gone off milk makes people sick
You want to check that products entering your country won't make people sick
None of this is controversial
Furthermore, if sausage rolls and Baileys are such high risk items, then the protocol may well be voted out in four years.
If the UK bans foie gras I would expect it to be banned in NI as well. Someone could still easily transport it across the border, but they would need to find a buyer.0 -
Customs agents away from the border.rick_chasey said:
Your example doesn’t solve anything as who is checking the paperwork and where?TheBigBean said:
UK and ROI ideally, but I'd imagine that compromises could be had under the existing protocol. For example, Baileys could be labelled as "not for consumption in EU" if shipped from GB to NI. If tailwindhome imported this and then sold it on into the EU, it should be a criminal matter - one that good paperwork would offer protection against.kingstongraham said:
For trade between who?TheBigBean said:
In the paperwork and labelling.kingstongraham said:
Where would you put the non-tariff barriers?TheBigBean said:
@tailwindhome lives in the same country. The question is whether his Bailey's consumption will have any impact on the EU, and whether this impact is sufficiently material to risk the peace.ddraver said:It's got milk
Milk goes off
Gone off milk makes people sick
You want to check that products entering your country won't make people sick
None of this is controversial
Furthermore, if sausage rolls and Baileys are such high risk items, then the protocol may well be voted out in four years.
If the UK bans foie gras I would expect it to be banned in NI as well. Someone could still easily transport it across the border, but they would need to find a buyer.0 -
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Because vets certify all animal derived products, and not just for export. I explained why earlier.Stevo_666 said:
Point is why a vet is needed to certify cream?kingstongraham said:
You said it was a classic EU rule. But an EHC is (and has been) needed for exports of animal products to non-EU countries.Stevo_666 said:
You'll have to explain that link, as it isn't obvious what point you're trying to make with it.kingstongraham said:
Have you not been paying attention?Stevo_666 said:
Just seemed odd as vets generally specialise in live animals, not dead animal produce. Like I said, classic EU rule.tailwindhome said:
Dunno tbh.Stevo_666 said:
Certify that it is what though?tailwindhome said:
CreamStevo_666 said:
A worthy EU rule.tailwindhome said:Logistics manager doing his nut at work because he can't get a load of Baileys from a supplier in England onto a ferry
Needs a vet certificate before it can be moved
In all likelihood it originated in Belfast before being delivered to England.
What exactly does the vet have to certify in relation to bottles of Baileys?
Anything of animal origin needs a veterinary health certificate. What that checks specifically I've no idea. I do believe it's not just an EU thing and is standard across borders in different SPS regulatory environments. The UK will insist on the same from the EU (when the systems are set up) as it does from other countries
It's a huge problem for the NI Protocol as a Tesco lorry may contain 100s of product lines each requiring a cert.
EDIT It's an 'Export Health Certificate that the product meets EU regulations
https://www.google.com/amp/s/spice-spotlight.scot/2020/11/30/after-the-transition-period-export-health-certificates/amp/
Anyway. http://apha.defra.gov.uk/official-vets/Guidance/exports/ehc-online.htm
It's not just for EU countries, but EU countries still require them. Think we need them from other countries too.
Depends on the destination and product. We're not in the EU and the agreement doesn't cover it, so exporters need it.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Every border balances pragmatism with risk and smuggling. My solution involves more smuggling and more peace.rick_chasey said:You’re just moving the border then, and opening a window of opportunity for smuggling?
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Yes you have always been an advocate for solutions which incentives smuggling.
You could of course join the single market and customs union and avoid both issues.0 -
To give an example, there is a lot of smuggling of something like garlic between Norway and Sweden, but it is accepted as the impact is small and the alternative would affect lots of other things more significantly.0
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No, you just need to sign an SPS agreement. It's nothing to do with customs or the single market.rick_chasey said:Yes you have always been an advocate for solutions which incentives smuggling.
You could of course join the single market and customs union and avoid both issues.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Another example. US kids used to drive to Canada, buy alcohol, throw it over the border fence and drive back. It wasn't worth the effort of policing until September 11th and the need for security for other reasons.0
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There's a town in Brazil / Paraguay where the border is pretty much the high street. Different currencies in use on either side, but complete freedom to cross.
The Brazil/France border has one check point with one man in working hours. It's a long border.
The north/south Korea border has a bit more going on.
They come in all shapes and sizes, and are adapted as appropriate.0 -
There is however quite a large moat. 🤣TheBigBean said:
The Brazil/France border has one check point with one man in working hours. It's a long border.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Shows how stupid they are then. There was no fence until 2020.TheBigBean said:Another example. US kids used to drive to Canada, buy alcohol, throw it over the border fence and drive back. It wasn't worth the effort of policing until September 11th and the need for security for other reasons.
The current one is only 1.5 km long while the border is 8891 kms.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
You're thinking of security installations. I assumed it was a reference to a farmer's fence or similar. There is much more focus on the policing of it now though.pblakeney said:
Shows how stupid they are then. There was no fence until 2020.TheBigBean said:Another example. US kids used to drive to Canada, buy alcohol, throw it over the border fence and drive back. It wasn't worth the effort of policing until September 11th and the need for security for other reasons.
The current one is only 1.5 km long while the border is 8891 kms.0 -
There is a moat, but it's not that wide.pblakeney said:
There is however quite a large moat. 🤣TheBigBean said:
The Brazil/France border has one check point with one man in working hours. It's a long border.0 -
Between Brazil and France?TheBigBean said:
There is a moat, but it's not that wide.pblakeney said:
There is however quite a large moat. 🤣TheBigBean said:
The Brazil/France border has one check point with one man in working hours. It's a long border.
I suggest looking at an atlas.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Might give your daughter a useful revenue stream when she’s qualified though, so no need to complain really!Stevo_666 said:
You're assuming too much again.pinkbikini said:
Isn’t the issue that you (like me) have no idea why the rule is there? But you choose the blame the EU, rather than find out why the rule is there in the first place. Not very logical really.Stevo_666 said:
Just seemed odd as vets generally specialise in live animals, not dead animal produce. Like I said, classic EU rule.tailwindhome said:
Dunno tbh.Stevo_666 said:
Certify that it is what though?tailwindhome said:
CreamStevo_666 said:
A worthy EU rule.tailwindhome said:Logistics manager doing his nut at work because he can't get a load of Baileys from a supplier in England onto a ferry
Needs a vet certificate before it can be moved
In all likelihood it originated in Belfast before being delivered to England.
What exactly does the vet have to certify in relation to bottles of Baileys?
Anything of animal origin needs a veterinary health certificate. What that checks specifically I've no idea. I do believe it's not just an EU thing and is standard across borders in different SPS regulatory environments. The UK will insist on the same from the EU (when the systems are set up) as it does from other countries
It's a huge problem for the NI Protocol as a Tesco lorry may contain 100s of product lines each requiring a cert.
EDIT It's an 'Export Health Certificate that the product meets EU regulations
https://www.google.com/amp/s/spice-spotlight.scot/2020/11/30/after-the-transition-period-export-health-certificates/amp/0 -
Out of interest why do you argue about things like this?pblakeney said:
Between Brazil and France?TheBigBean said:
There is a moat, but it's not that wide.pblakeney said:
There is however quite a large moat. 🤣TheBigBean said:
The Brazil/France border has one check point with one man in working hours. It's a long border.
I suggest looking at an atlas.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil–France_border0 -
Cos you wrote France, not French Guiana.TheBigBean said:
Out of interest why do you argue about things like this?pblakeney said:
Between Brazil and France?TheBigBean said:
There is a moat, but it's not that wide.pblakeney said:
There is however quite a large moat. 🤣TheBigBean said:
The Brazil/France border has one check point with one man in working hours. It's a long border.
I suggest looking at an atlas.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil–France_border
Say what you mean, mean what you say. The smiley indicated I wasn't overly serious.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
It is France as per the map and the wiki link.pblakeney said:
Cos you wrote France, not French Guiana.TheBigBean said:
Out of interest why do you argue about things like this?pblakeney said:
Between Brazil and France?TheBigBean said:
There is a moat, but it's not that wide.pblakeney said:
There is however quite a large moat. 🤣TheBigBean said:
The Brazil/France border has one check point with one man in working hours. It's a long border.
I suggest looking at an atlas.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil–France_border
Say what you mean, mean what you say. The smiley indicated I wasn't overly serious.
Just to add in case anyone is interested it is also part of the EU, so when an illegal gold miner strolls across the border with a dodgy ham sandwich, the sirons should really go off, but they don't.
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Hey ho, take the win if you wish.TheBigBean said:
It is France as per the map and the wiki link.pblakeney said:
Cos you wrote France, not French Guiana.TheBigBean said:
Out of interest why do you argue about things like this?pblakeney said:
Between Brazil and France?TheBigBean said:
There is a moat, but it's not that wide.pblakeney said:
There is however quite a large moat. 🤣TheBigBean said:
The Brazil/France border has one check point with one man in working hours. It's a long border.
I suggest looking at an atlas.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil–France_border
Say what you mean, mean what you say. The smiley indicated I wasn't overly serious.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
As it happens, Brazil was arguing with the EU over SPS rules.TheBigBean said:
It is France as per the map and the wiki link.pblakeney said:
Cos you wrote France, not French Guiana.TheBigBean said:
Out of interest why do you argue about things like this?pblakeney said:
Between Brazil and France?TheBigBean said:
There is a moat, but it's not that wide.pblakeney said:
There is however quite a large moat. 🤣TheBigBean said:
The Brazil/France border has one check point with one man in working hours. It's a long border.
I suggest looking at an atlas.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil–France_border
Say what you mean, mean what you say. The smiley indicated I wasn't overly serious.
Just to add in case anyone is interested it is also part of the EU, so when an illegal gold miner strolls across the border with a dodgy ham sandwich, the sirons should really go off, but they don't.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Two questions;ddraver said:
Is that the bouncy bridge? if so have never seen that angle before
What is the downside to £1trn of assets moving out of the UK?0 -
The jobs of the people who are responsible for those assets move with it.surrey_commuter said:
Two questions;ddraver said:
Is that the bouncy bridge? if so have never seen that angle before
What is the downside to £1trn of assets moving out of the UK?0 -
I get that, but we have already counted those jobs. Half of our annual GDP leaving sounds bad but I wondered what the practical consequences are.rick_chasey said:
The jobs of the people who are responsible for those assets move with it.surrey_commuter said:
Two questions;ddraver said:
Is that the bouncy bridge? if so have never seen that angle before
What is the downside to £1trn of assets moving out of the UK?0 -
Not that much. All the executed trades on behalf of those assets happen somewhere else etc.surrey_commuter said:
I get that, but we have already counted those jobs. Half of our annual GDP leaving sounds bad but I wondered what the practical consequences are.rick_chasey said:
The jobs of the people who are responsible for those assets move with it.surrey_commuter said:
Two questions;ddraver said:
Is that the bouncy bridge? if so have never seen that angle before
What is the downside to £1trn of assets moving out of the UK?
For context, the entire asset management industry (globally) manages c.$110 trillion.
It's a 6th of blackrock's AUM, for example.0 -
thank yourick_chasey said:
Not that much. All the executed trades on behalf of those assets happen somewhere else etc.surrey_commuter said:
I get that, but we have already counted those jobs. Half of our annual GDP leaving sounds bad but I wondered what the practical consequences are.rick_chasey said:
The jobs of the people who are responsible for those assets move with it.surrey_commuter said:
Two questions;ddraver said:
Is that the bouncy bridge? if so have never seen that angle before
What is the downside to £1trn of assets moving out of the UK?
For context, the entire asset management industry (globally) manages c.$110 trillion.
It's a 6th of blackrock's AUM, for example.0 -
If 4 million Brexiteers have died, I apologize for any hurt caused.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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tailwindhome said:
If 4 million Brexiteers have died, I apologize for any hurt caused.
Remember, any announcement of deaths now has to be preceded by "sadly", so it would be fine to say "Sadly, 4 million Brexiteers have died".0
