BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

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  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    I mean, on the Nazi comment.

    .......

    It's that basic misunderstanding that really baffles me why they would have someone like BoJo as foreign minister. Why on earth he thought that would and could ever be a relevant comparison; particularly as he claims to be a bit of a historian.

    What he said was foolish for a politician, but the actually point he was making was that there isn't a common bond between the European people so the creation of a superstate is doomed to fail. Of course, there is no discussion around this point because it is far easier to go with the cheap headlines.

    Ultimately, the fact he speaks reasonably freely if foolishly is the reason he is more popular than scripted politicians.

    Outside of Europe where he is the pantomime villain, I suspect he remains reasonably popular.

    Clearly a lot of people from MEPs to Remain voters blame Boris. My suspicion is that until there is a bit more self-reflection things won't improve. Blaming someone else is always the easy option.

    Another good example of this is how the financial crisis is entirely the fault of bonus earning bankers.

    I know you like to bash the EU's governance in the past but right now that is an irrelevance for the UK.

    What I do know is that diplomatic negotiations are much easier when there is genuine mutual respect across the table. Personality is, and always will be, a key component.

    It's very difficult to take the personality out of it, and, as you've said yourself, given the EU politicians are not much more able than the UK politicians, I can't see them suddenly being able to leave their ego at the door, especially since it is an existential issue for a lot of them.


    Boris isn't leading the negotiations, David Davis is. It is David Davis who will sit down with Guy Verhofstadt and various other appointed representatives.

    Of course it would be easier if both sides had brought less extreme characters to the table.

    One of things that Boris did quite well as London mayor was to promote it around the world. I presume the reason he has his current job is to promote the UK around the world as well as being well placed to satisfy leave voters. The latter point is actually quite significant - he is the best placed person to sell a soft Brexit to leave voters.

    I can't imagine that much will come of the negotiations

    FTFY

    I suspect Boris calling the EU Nazis probably rules him out of some things.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    TheBigBean wrote:
    briantrumpet wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Pretty good value for money in the UK at the moment.
    I'm not an economist, but I'm guessing that large companies aren't going to base long-term decisions on "at the moment".

    You say that, but I find that "at the moment" influences far more things than it should. For example, recently there has been a panic about inflation being low. No amount of BoE forecasts, implied inflation forecast from gilts, OBR forecasts and low oil price explanations can trump "but it was only 1% last year".

    I read today that his is as high as 3.5% by the end of next year.

    the "current" exchange rate is probably forecast to last for at least 3 years so "at the moment" is quite a long time
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,919
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    briantrumpet wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Pretty good value for money in the UK at the moment.
    I'm not an economist, but I'm guessing that large companies aren't going to base long-term decisions on "at the moment".

    You say that, but I find that "at the moment" influences far more things than it should. For example, recently there has been a panic about inflation being low. No amount of BoE forecasts, implied inflation forecast from gilts, OBR forecasts and low oil price explanations can trump "but it was only 1% last year".

    I read today that his is as high as 3.5% by the end of next year.

    the "current" exchange rate is probably forecast to last for at least 3 years so "at the moment" is quite a long time

    It's not that bad. See the link below, and pick the implied inflation file. It doesn't have next year.

    http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/statisti ... fault.aspx

    From memory it is actually a bit lower than pre-Brexit, so the current absurd index-linked gilt prices are more to do with interest rates than inflation. These rates are so low that it is now hard to have a positive coupon on any index-linked lending - this is causing a bit of head scratching.
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    So tell me, why would a large multinational which does not even manufacture in the UK any more, cut jobs allegedly because of Brexit, while we are still in the EU for over 2 years and they have no idea what the post Brexit landscape will look like?

    And then lie to the world via a press statement saying categorically that it is nothing to do with Brexit?

    Given Fujitsu's specific public statements on this, and the complete failure of you or JS to produce any verifiable evidence that they are lying, it really does look like you are clutching at straws.

    Save your negativity for something that can actually be attributed to BREXIT.

    thought u said Fujitsu was cutting across EMEA are they or not? or is it the UK ?
    why did they lie in May and September then? (to the world in a press statement, if they lied then, how can they be believed now? oh yes it suits your narrative)

    the eco outlook for the UK is going one way and once A50 is triggered next March, it ll go faster in that direction, so fujitsu are doing what they said they d do and pull back, why is that so difficult for you to understand.......

    we are losing engineering posts across the UK and the reason given is Brexit, so my company is lying too? you are starting to sound like D Trump.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,428
    Jez mon wrote:
    Regarding Fujitsu, given the blasting that Unilever have got from sections of the press regarding raising their prices. I would have thought the smartest thing to do from a PR POV was to deny any undesirable business actions were due to Brexit. It also keeps the story quiet in the sections of the press that are looking to blame everything bad on Brexit...
    More supposition. Got any evidence that contradicts the companys public statements?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,428
    mamba80 wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    So tell me, why would a large multinational which does not even manufacture in the UK any more, cut jobs allegedly because of Brexit, while we are still in the EU for over 2 years and they have no idea what the post Brexit landscape will look like?

    And then lie to the world via a press statement saying categorically that it is nothing to do with Brexit?

    Given Fujitsu's specific public statements on this, and the complete failure of you or JS to produce any verifiable evidence that they are lying, it really does look like you are clutching at straws.

    Save your negativity for something that can actually be attributed to BREXIT.

    thought u said Fujitsu was cutting across EMEA are they or not? or is it the UK ?
    why did they lie in May and September then? (to the world in a press statement, if they lied then, how can they be believed now? oh yes it suits your narrative)

    the eco outlook for the UK is going one way and once A50 is triggered next March, it ll go faster in that direction, so fujitsu are doing what they said they d do and pull back, why is that so difficult for you to understand.......

    we are losing engineering posts across the UK and the reason given is Brexit, so my company is lying too? you are starting to sound like D Trump.
    Read the link again - it said clearly that this was part of an EMEA wide restructure and that job losses in other countries had been announced.

    Unless they have Joelsims 'doomsday' crystal ball how exactly are they going to predict how much and what to cut based on things that haven't happened yet.

    Sometimes you need to know when stop backing a losing horse :wink:
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Ya know the CETA EU/Canada trade deal? The one Britain has looked to copy?

    Fell through. Walloon regional gov't veto'd the whole thing.
    _
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Unless they have Joelsims 'doomsday' crystal ball how exactly are they going to predict how much and what to cut based on things that haven't happened yet.

    Sometimes you need to know when stop backing a losing horse :wink:

    So companies don't act predicatively, and only react to things when they happen.

    Look Stevo, your boys in blue ties ****ed up, try not to get to down about it.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    So tell me, why would a large multinational which does not even manufacture in the UK any more, cut jobs allegedly because of Brexit, while we are still in the EU for over 2 years and they have no idea what the post Brexit landscape will look like?

    And then lie to the world via a press statement saying categorically that it is nothing to do with Brexit?

    Given Fujitsu's specific public statements on this, and the complete failure of you or JS to produce any verifiable evidence that they are lying, it really does look like you are clutching at straws.

    Save your negativity for something that can actually be attributed to BREXIT.

    thought u said Fujitsu was cutting across EMEA are they or not? or is it the UK ?
    why did they lie in May and September then? (to the world in a press statement, if they lied then, how can they be believed now? oh yes it suits your narrative)

    the eco outlook for the UK is going one way and once A50 is triggered next March, it ll go faster in that direction, so fujitsu are doing what they said they d do and pull back, why is that so difficult for you to understand.......

    we are losing engineering posts across the UK and the reason given is Brexit, so my company is lying too? you are starting to sound like D Trump.
    Read the link again - it said clearly that this was part of an EMEA wide restructure and that job losses in other countries had been announced.

    Unless they have Joelsims 'doomsday' crystal ball how exactly are they going to predict how much and what to cut based on things that haven't happened yet.

    Sometimes you need to know when stop backing a losing horse :wink:

    you are not answering the questions i raised.

    but i ll take note of what has happened on our CC, job losses, Fujitsu uk restructure due to Brexit/uk eco uncertainty and UK will take the hit.

    as said your hero DC messed up, walked away and has left the rest of us to pick up the pieces........
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Ya know the CETA EU/Canada trade deal? The one Britain has looked to copy?

    Fell through. Walloon regional gov't veto'd the whole thing.

    But we're going to be able to agree amazing new trade deals with everyone we want to within weeks because we're amazing. Right?
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Ya know the CETA EU/Canada trade deal? The one Britain has looked to copy?

    Fell through. Walloon regional gov't veto'd the whole thing.

    But we're going to be able to agree amazing new trade deals with everyone we want to within weeks because we're amazing. Right?

    why does nobody point out the inherent hypocrisy in their argument?

    we are aggressively pursuing trade deals wherever we can find them as that will make us wealthier

    we are leaving the world's largest trade bloc, of which we are a neighbour, becuase it does not matter
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Ya know the CETA EU/Canada trade deal? The one Britain has looked to copy?

    Fell through. Walloon regional gov't veto'd the whole thing.

    But we're going to be able to agree amazing new trade deals with everyone we want to within weeks because we're amazing. Right?

    why does nobody point out the inherent hypocrisy in their argument?

    we are aggressively pursuing trade deals wherever we can find them as that will make us wealthier

    we are leaving the world's largest trade bloc, of which we are a neighbour, becuase it does not matter

    Lilliput syndrome. Think Britain is much bigger than it is.
    _
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,154
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Ya know the CETA EU/Canada trade deal? The one Britain has looked to copy?

    Fell through. Walloon regional gov't veto'd the whole thing.

    But we're going to be able to agree amazing new trade deals with everyone we want to within weeks because we're amazing. Right?

    why does nobody point out the inherent hypocrisy in their argument?

    we are aggressively pursuing trade deals wherever we can find them as that will make us wealthier

    we are leaving the world's largest trade bloc, of which we are a neighbour, becuase it does not matter

    If it was just a trade bloc, a lot of the leavers wouldn't want to leave it.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,428
    Jez mon wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Unless they have Joelsims 'doomsday' crystal ball how exactly are they going to predict how much and what to cut based on things that haven't happened yet.

    Sometimes you need to know when stop backing a losing horse :wink:

    So companies don't act predicatively, and only react to things when they happen.

    Look Stevo, your boys in blue ties ****ed up, try not to get to down about it.
    Down about what?

    Try reading the links rather than guessing.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • fat daddy
    fat daddy Posts: 2,605
    mamba80 wrote:
    as said your hero DC messed up, walked away and has left the rest of us to pick up the pieces........

    luckily the other side, .. you know Farrage and Boris, they stood up and continued what they succeeded in implementing, with all their promises :D

    I don't think Brexit mattered ..... we were due a massive shake up in the system as all out politicians are knobjockeys .... Brexit was just the catalyst, it could have quite as easily been Stricktly or GBBO
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,428
    mamba80 wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    So tell me, why would a large multinational which does not even manufacture in the UK any more, cut jobs allegedly because of Brexit, while we are still in the EU for over 2 years and they have no idea what the post Brexit landscape will look like?

    And then lie to the world via a press statement saying categorically that it is nothing to do with Brexit?

    Given Fujitsu's specific public statements on this, and the complete failure of you or JS to produce any verifiable evidence that they are lying, it really does look like you are clutching at straws.

    Save your negativity for something that can actually be attributed to BREXIT.

    thought u said Fujitsu was cutting across EMEA are they or not? or is it the UK ?
    why did they lie in May and September then? (to the world in a press statement, if they lied then, how can they be believed now? oh yes it suits your narrative)

    the eco outlook for the UK is going one way and once A50 is triggered next March, it ll go faster in that direction, so fujitsu are doing what they said they d do and pull back, why is that so difficult for you to understand.......

    we are losing engineering posts across the UK and the reason given is Brexit, so my company is lying too? you are starting to sound like D Trump.
    Read the link again - it said clearly that this was part of an EMEA wide restructure and that job losses in other countries had been announced.

    Unless they have Joelsims 'doomsday' crystal ball how exactly are they going to predict how much and what to cut based on things that haven't happened yet.

    Sometimes you need to know when stop backing a losing horse :wink:

    you are not answering the questions i raised.

    but i ll take note of what has happened on our CC, job losses, Fujitsu uk restructure due to Brexit/uk eco uncertainty and UK will take the hit.

    as said your hero DC messed up, walked away and has left the rest of us to pick up the pieces........
    You make a claim, without substantiating it and ask me to comment? Show me the links to the alleged lies.

    I've showed you a link to the latest public statement by Fujitsu and you have produced no evidence to refute it. Just a weak attempt to divert. Show me the evidence...

    I showed you a link that showed Fujitsu cutting jobs and restructuring in EMEA. Did you just ignore it?

    If your company is cutting due to Brexit, well OK but you are not Fujitsu are you?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Ya know the CETA EU/Canada trade deal? The one Britain has looked to copy?

    Fell through. Walloon regional gov't veto'd the whole thing.

    But we're going to be able to agree amazing new trade deals with everyone we want to within weeks because we're amazing. Right?

    why does nobody point out the inherent hypocrisy in their argument?

    we are aggressively pursuing trade deals wherever we can find them as that will make us wealthier

    we are leaving the world's largest trade bloc, of which we are a neighbour, becuase it does not matter

    If it was just a trade bloc, a lot of the leavers wouldn't want to leave it.

    I know they left for a whole raft of reasons but the net effect was that they were prepared to junk being a part of the worlds largest trade bloc. My point is that if they place so little value on that why all the noise about trade deals?
  • wallace_and_gromit
    wallace_and_gromit Posts: 3,618
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Ya know the CETA EU/Canada trade deal? The one Britain has looked to copy?

    Fell through. Walloon regional gov't veto'd the whole thing.

    But we're going to be able to agree amazing new trade deals with everyone we want to within weeks because we're amazing. Right?

    Bodes well for the UK agreeing a trade deal with Canada, if not the EU.
  • wallace_and_gromit
    wallace_and_gromit Posts: 3,618
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Ya know the CETA EU/Canada trade deal? The one Britain has looked to copy?

    Fell through. Walloon regional gov't veto'd the whole thing.

    But we're going to be able to agree amazing new trade deals with everyone we want to within weeks because we're amazing. Right?

    why does nobody point out the inherent hypocrisy in their argument?

    we are aggressively pursuing trade deals wherever we can find them as that will make us wealthier

    we are leaving the world's largest trade bloc, of which we are a neighbour, because it does not matter

    The Leave folks who are actually concerned about the economy aren't saying that the EU single market isn't important. They are saying that the EU will let us remain in it because we buy a lot of German cars.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Wallace and Gromit wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Ya know the CETA EU/Canada trade deal? The one Britain has looked to copy?

    Fell through. Walloon regional gov't veto'd the whole thing.

    But we're going to be able to agree amazing new trade deals with everyone we want to within weeks because we're amazing. Right?

    why does nobody point out the inherent hypocrisy in their argument?

    we are aggressively pursuing trade deals wherever we can find them as that will make us wealthier

    we are leaving the world's largest trade bloc, of which we are a neighbour, because it does not matter

    The Leave folks who are actually concerned about the economy aren't saying that the EU single market isn't important. They are saying that the EU will let us remain in it because we buy a lot of German cars.

    I have more pity/contempt for them than I do the headbanging loonies who say they don't care about anything so long as we are out of the EU. At least they know the price of what they are doing - even if it is unlikely to intrude into their own rarefied bubbles
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,919
    Wallace and Gromit wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Ya know the CETA EU/Canada trade deal? The one Britain has looked to copy?

    Fell through. Walloon regional gov't veto'd the whole thing.

    But we're going to be able to agree amazing new trade deals with everyone we want to within weeks because we're amazing. Right?

    Bodes well for the UK agreeing a trade deal with Canada, if not the EU.

    I think it all leads to an interesting discussion about reconciling democracy with trade deals. At the moment there is a disconnect.
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Wallace and Gromit wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Ya know the CETA EU/Canada trade deal? The one Britain has looked to copy?

    Fell through. Walloon regional gov't veto'd the whole thing.

    But we're going to be able to agree amazing new trade deals with everyone we want to within weeks because we're amazing. Right?

    why does nobody point out the inherent hypocrisy in their argument?

    we are aggressively pursuing trade deals wherever we can find them as that will make us wealthier

    we are leaving the world's largest trade bloc, of which we are a neighbour, because it does not matter

    The Leave folks who are actually concerned about the economy aren't saying that the EU single market isn't important. They are saying that the EU will let us remain in it because we buy a lot of German cars.

    I have more pity/contempt for them than I do the headbanging loonies who say they don't care about anything so long as we are out of the EU. At least they know the price of what they are doing - even if it is unlikely to intrude into their own rarefied bubbles

    Given what Tusk, Merkel, Hollande and others have said, as well as the German Trade bodies, this doesn't bode well. Nor has it ever.

    New Reuters poll of 27 economists.


    https://twitter.com/brucereuters/status ... 6235255809
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Good old John Deadwood.

    [Shakes head as Tories show their true colours one after another]

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... dwood.html
  • wallace_and_gromit
    wallace_and_gromit Posts: 3,618
    Joelsim wrote:
    Good old John Deadwood.

    [Shakes head as Tories show their true colours one after another]

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... dwood.html

    There are a few Tories previously in the "Maybe they have insight, knowledge and judgement that are beyond my comprehension" category who are now in the proven fruitcake category. Redwood leads the charge there on this front.
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Wallace and Gromit wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:
    Good old John Deadwood.

    [Shakes head as Tories show their true colours one after another]

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... dwood.html

    There are a few Tories previously in the "Maybe they have insight, knowledge and judgement that are beyond my comprehension" category who are now in the proven fruitcake category. Redwood leads the charge there on this front.

    Fox said the same yesterday so at the very least there have been discussions on this.
  • verylonglegs
    verylonglegs Posts: 4,023
    Joelsim wrote:
    Wallace and Gromit wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:
    Good old John Deadwood.

    [Shakes head as Tories show their true colours one after another]

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... dwood.html

    There are a few Tories previously in the "Maybe they have insight, knowledge and judgement that are beyond my comprehension" category who are now in the proven fruitcake category. Redwood leads the charge there on this front.

    Fox said the same yesterday so at the very least there have been discussions on this.

    My God, is there not an asylum missing a patient? We must be in a sorry state when someone like that holds office, to think we laugh at American politics.
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Carney on inflation. It's the poor who'll be hit first. Colour me surprised, but whenever I've said that to anyone on Twatter or Facebook they've told me I lost, and to get over it.

    http://news.sky.com/story/bank-governor ... t-10616704
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,330
    Joelsim wrote:
    Good old John Deadwood.

    [Shakes head as Tories show their true colours one after another]

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... dwood.html
    It wouldn't take much Photoshop talent to paint a small moustache on that headline photo. :shock:
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Nissan appear to have been told their trading conditions will be the same as now by Mayhem.

    Eh?
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Delete.

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