BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Nice try. So you are claiming that Fujitsu are lying? Got any evidence for that? :roll:mamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
You need to re-read the link where Fujitsu specifically said that the decision had nothing to do with Brexit, and that the restructure was for the whole of the EMEA region. I can post it again if you wantmamba80 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36329178
http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/wes ... t-11852353
so, fujitsu say twice, pre and post brexit vote they ll review, they then review and cut 1800 over the next 12 months or so.... yet it has nothing to do with Brexit ... really?
we are having our meetings tomo,where all will be revealed....
you sound like a typical head in the sands Outer tbh or rather a Theresa-sit on the fence until i see which way the wind blows-May
This is rather different from pre-Brexit sabre rattling to try to influence the result.
What we are hearing is that Fujitsu are saying its nothing to do with Brexit, as they dont want to upset the Gov, they ve still got to do business here.
Also they said AFTER the result in Sept, that they d need to restructure....due to Brexit.... but now the reasons have changed
the timing is somewhat coincidental dont you think? though i do accept that there will be companies that will hide behind Brexit, just to deflect criticism."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
As I said Steve, they have another 12,000 staff in the UK. I very much doubt they want to strike panic into them, as well as trying to be as politically neutral as possible at this delicate time.
I wouldn't be surprised if they have already made the decision to run their UK ops down and invest elsewhere.
But as a leaver, you'll never see it that way.0 -
Joelsim wrote:Pinno wrote:Joelsim wrote:Pinno wrote:I have had to trawl through 6 bloody pages (although there were some nice pictures) since I last logged in. Can you lot slow down please?
I thought the price of oil would be directly linked to the value of the pound. Why should petrol at the pumps be wildly different to crude oil prices?
Plus tax, overheads, margins etc. 60% of the price is tax, overheads and margins are fixed.
70% is tax. I was just a little confused by this post:Surrey Commuter wrote:...I was more making the point that if the price of oil went up we could be in some serious bother. As the price of oil is so low it could quite conceivably increase in price by 50%
What he means is a barrel of oil currently is very low, so imagine if that went up significantly. That really wouldn't be good for inflation with pressure also coming from everywhere for price rises due to the weakness of Sterling.
Correct - I could hire you as my translator
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EU president on Brexit. Basically said it's gonna be hard.
Makes you wonder whether a bunch of people who spent the campaign insulting the EU are best placed to negotiate it. Friend in Brussels was saying to me today how genuinely deeply offended those in Brussels were with regard to the Nazi comparison by BoJo.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:EU president on Brexit. Basically said it's gonna be hard.
Makes you wonder whether a bunch of people who spent the campaign insulting the EU are best placed to negotiate it. Friend in Brussels was saying to me today how genuinely deeply offended those in Brussels were with regard to the Nazi comparison by BoJo.
Could Boris have been hired to wind the opposition up - the Joey Barton of politics?0 -
Yeah, but surely Large Britain holds all the trumps, doesn't it? Surely they will see the error of their ways, and bow to 'our' will?? Especially with BoJo's negotiating skills...Rick Chasey wrote:EU president on Brexit. Basically said it's gonna be hard.
Makes you wonder whether a bunch of people who spent the campaign insulting the EU are best placed to negotiate it. Friend in Brussels was saying to me today how genuinely deeply offended those in Brussels were with regard to the Nazi comparison by BoJo.0 -
I mean, on the Nazi comment.
It's all very well in the UK. The UK was never occupied, and what happened on the continent during those years was always "over there". But if you were occupied, and you had your towns removed t of all the local jewish, gay, gypsy and politically active people, and had them killed on your own soil, it feels really very different.
My grandfather opted to go into hiding as an 18 year old because he refused to be forced to sign allegiance. He knew he'd have been likely shot had he been found. When I used to proffer a soft spot for Jan Ullrich as a child he used to tell me about the chill he still gets when he hears the language.
It's that basic misunderstanding that really baffles me why they would have someone like BoJo as foreign minister. Why on earth he thought that would and could ever be a relevant comparison; particularly as he claims to be a bit of a historian.0 -
If you read mambas earlier links you'll see that Fujitsu came out publically in favour of remaining. Given this, they have no plausible reason for stating otherwise. In fact, they have way more motivation to state with Joel/mamba like glee that it was caused by Brexit.Joelsim wrote:As I said Steve, they have another 12,000 staff in the UK. I very much doubt they want to strike panic into them, as well as trying to be as politically neutral as possible at this delicate time.
I wouldn't be surprised if they have already made the decision to run their UK ops down and invest elsewhere.
But as a leaver, you'll never see it that way.
Add to this the public statement that that are cutting jobs across the EMEA region and the commercial pressures that I know exist in that sector, then your claim is simply not plausible.
Mamba is just marked that he got called out for talking crap and is trying to wriggle off the hook. His initial response to me was very telling "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
A quick reminder of mambas response to memamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
Complete tosh. The Fujitsu job cuts are nothing do with Brexit:mamba80 wrote:[Fujitsu have just announced 1800 UK job losses, they warned in Sept Brexit could cause them to quit UK........ this is shitte for us, as we do a heck of alot of contract work for them so will def have implications for our company, well done Coopster and you other wxxkxrs who never thought this through.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/11/fujitsu-to-cut-almost-2000-uk-jobs-as-it-looks-to-slash-costs/
To quote from the link:
"Fujitsu however stressed that the decision was not related to result of the Brexit referendum or any “domestic issues”.
Care to comment on this Mamba?
Unfortunately when any company cuts jobs fdom now on, it will be gleefully seized upon by some on here as 'proof' that we are doomed. I think some of these claims deserve a bit of closer scrutiny in future.
do you work in this industry dickhead?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
A reminder of what else Fujitsu publically said about their pan European restructure.Stevo 666 wrote:
Seriously? You are grasping at straws.Joelsim wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
Complete tosh. The Fujitsu job cuts are nothing do with Brexit:mamba80 wrote:[Fujitsu have just announced 1800 UK job losses, they warned in Sept Brexit could cause them to quit UK........ this is shitte for us, as we do a heck of alot of contract work for them so will def have implications for our company, well done Coopster and you other wxxkxrs who never thought this through.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/11/fujitsu-to-cut-almost-2000-uk-jobs-as-it-looks-to-slash-costs/
To quote from the link:
"Fujitsu however stressed that the decision was not related to result of the Brexit referendum or any “domestic issues”.
Care to comment on this Mamba?
Unfortunately when any company cuts jobs fdom now on, it will be gleefully seized upon by some on here as 'proof' that we are doomed. I think some of these claims deserve a bit of closer scrutiny in future.
Or it could be so they don't strike fear into the rest of their UK workforce.
I know that sector and the commercial pressures that it is under regardless of BREXIT. This is a cost cutting exercise to remain profitanle/competitive. And it is well in advance of any exit.
More from the link:
"Announcing the mass redundancies, Fujitsu said the cost cutting was to allow it to remain competitive.
The company ended manufacturing work in the UK several years ago and its British arm is focused on providing IT support to blue-chip clients including Centrica and Marks & Spencer. "
And not confined to the UK, it is a regional restructure:
"All of Fujitsu’s operations across Europe, the Middle East and Africa are coming under scrutiny as part of the process, the company added. "
What is your evidence that they are lying?
A hopeful suggestion that they don't want to panic workers is not evidence btw."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Why on earth would oil be linked to the pound?? Oil is priced in dollars and has remained around $50 per barrel or in fact increased due to continuing talks of an output freeze, and the price at the pumps are in £ (which has fallen massively compared to the $)Pinno wrote:I have had to trawl through 6 bloody pages (although there were some nice pictures) since I last logged in. Can you lot slow down please?
I thought the price of oil would be directly linked to the value of the pound. Why should petrol at the pumps be wildly different to crude oil prices?0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
If you read mambas earlier links you'll see that Fujitsu came out publically in favour of remaining. Given this, they have no plausible reason for stating otherwise. In fact, they have way more motivation to state with Joel/mamba like glee that it was caused by Brexit.Joelsim wrote:As I said Steve, they have another 12,000 staff in the UK. I very much doubt they want to strike panic into them, as well as trying to be as politically neutral as possible at this delicate time.
I wouldn't be surprised if they have already made the decision to run their UK ops down and invest elsewhere.
But as a leaver, you'll never see it that way.
Add to this the public statement that that are cutting jobs across the EMEA region and the commercial pressures that I know exist in that sector, then your claim is simply not plausible.
Mamba is just marked that he got called out for talking crap and is trying to wriggle off the hook. His initial response to me was very telling
You are and i feel sure that feeling is mutual.
Fujitsu will still be a major force in the UK, do you think they ll deliberately put the Gov nose out? as i said, i ve yet to meet anyone who thinks Brexit isnt the driver for this, they said so earlier and have carried out with their warning, why are you believing them now BUT not what they said earlier?
whats this about jobs cuts across europe? a few 100 in Finland? they ve not announced job cuts on anything like the same scale as in the UK, just that they ll be looking at other areas, which could mean anything.
Are you getting confused with Ericsson?0 -
So tell me, why would a large multinational which does not even manufacture in the UK any more, cut jobs allegedly because of Brexit, while we are still in the EU for over 2 years and they have no idea what the post Brexit landscape will look like?
And then lie to the world via a press statement saying categorically that it is nothing to do with Brexit?
Given Fujitsu's specific public statements on this, and the complete failure of you or JS to produce any verifiable evidence that they are lying, it really does look like you are clutching at straws.
Save your negativity for something that can actually be attributed to BREXIT."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:I mean, on the Nazi comment.
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It's that basic misunderstanding that really baffles me why they would have someone like BoJo as foreign minister. Why on earth he thought that would and could ever be a relevant comparison; particularly as he claims to be a bit of a historian.
What he said was foolish for a politician, but the actually point he was making was that there isn't a common bond between the European people so the creation of a superstate is doomed to fail. Of course, there is no discussion around this point because it is far easier to go with the cheap headlines.
Ultimately, the fact he speaks reasonably freely if foolishly is the reason he is more popular than scripted politicians.
Outside of Europe where he is the pantomime villain, I suspect he remains reasonably popular.
Clearly a lot of people from MEPs to Remain voters blame Boris. My suspicion is that until there is a bit more self-reflection things won't improve. Blaming someone else is always the easy option.
Another good example of this is how the financial crisis is entirely the fault of bonus earning bankers.0 -
TheBigBean wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:I mean, on the Nazi comment.
.......
It's that basic misunderstanding that really baffles me why they would have someone like BoJo as foreign minister. Why on earth he thought that would and could ever be a relevant comparison; particularly as he claims to be a bit of a historian.
What he said was foolish for a politician, but the actually point he was making was that there isn't a common bond between the European people so the creation of a superstate is doomed to fail. Of course, there is no discussion around this point because it is far easier to go with the cheap headlines.
Ultimately, the fact he speaks reasonably freely if foolishly is the reason he is more popular than scripted politicians.
Outside of Europe where he is the pantomime villain, I suspect he remains reasonably popular.
Clearly a lot of people from MEPs to Remain voters blame Boris. My suspicion is that until there is a bit more self-reflection things won't improve. Blaming someone else is always the easy option.
Another good example of this is how the financial crisis is entirely the fault of bonus earning bankers.
I know you like to bash the EU's governance in the past but right now that is an irrelevance for the UK.
What I do know is that diplomatic negotiations are much easier when there is genuine mutual respect across the table. Personality is, and always will be, a key component.
It's very difficult to take the personality out of it, and, as you've said yourself, given the EU politicians are not much more able than the UK politicians, I can't see them suddenly being able to leave their ego at the door, especially since it is an existential issue for a lot of them.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:TheBigBean wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:I mean, on the Nazi comment.
.......
It's that basic misunderstanding that really baffles me why they would have someone like BoJo as foreign minister. Why on earth he thought that would and could ever be a relevant comparison; particularly as he claims to be a bit of a historian.
What he said was foolish for a politician, but the actually point he was making was that there isn't a common bond between the European people so the creation of a superstate is doomed to fail. Of course, there is no discussion around this point because it is far easier to go with the cheap headlines.
Ultimately, the fact he speaks reasonably freely if foolishly is the reason he is more popular than scripted politicians.
Outside of Europe where he is the pantomime villain, I suspect he remains reasonably popular.
Clearly a lot of people from MEPs to Remain voters blame Boris. My suspicion is that until there is a bit more self-reflection things won't improve. Blaming someone else is always the easy option.
Another good example of this is how the financial crisis is entirely the fault of bonus earning bankers.
I know you like to bash the EU's governance in the past but right now that is an irrelevance for the UK.
What I do know is that diplomatic negotiations are much easier when there is genuine mutual respect across the table. Personality is, and always will be, a key component.
It's very difficult to take the personality out of it, and, as you've said yourself, given the EU politicians are not much more able than the UK politicians, I can't see them suddenly being able to leave their ego at the door, especially since it is an existential issue for a lot of them.
Boris isn't leading the negotiations, David Davis is. It is David Davis who will sit down with Guy Verhofstadt and various other appointed representatives.
Of course it would be easier if both sides had brought less extreme characters to the table.
One of things that Boris did quite well as London mayor was to promote it around the world. I presume the reason he has his current job is to promote the UK around the world as well as being well placed to satisfy leave voters. The latter point is actually quite significant - he is the best placed person to sell a soft Brexit to leave voters.
I can't imagine that much will come of the negotiations (whoever is sent) until both sides have experienced some pain, and show willing to compromise.0 -
bobmcstuff wrote:
Why on earth would oil be linked to the pound?Pinno wrote:I have had to trawl through 6 bloody pages (although there were some nice pictures) since I last logged in. Can you lot slow down please?
I thought the price of oil would be directly linked to the value of the pound. Why should petrol at the pumps be wildly different to crude oil prices?
Because oil is say 50.44 USD per barrel when the dollar was $1.27 to the pound. Now the pound is currently worth $1.22 and just like all the other commodities...
The price we pay for oil is not a constant. World crude prices + currency rate = price.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
If it gets to that, we truly are screwed.Pinno wrote:... when the pound was £1.27 to the dollar.0 -
briantrumpet wrote:
If it gets to that, we truly are screwed.Pinno wrote:... when the pound was £1.27 to the dollar.
Oops, better go back and edit.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:TheBigBean wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:I mean, on the Nazi comment.
.......
It's that basic misunderstanding that really baffles me why they would have someone like BoJo as foreign minister. Why on earth he thought that would and could ever be a relevant comparison; particularly as he claims to be a bit of a historian.
What he said was foolish for a politician, but the actually point he was making was that there isn't a common bond between the European people so the creation of a superstate is doomed to fail. Of course, there is no discussion around this point because it is far easier to go with the cheap headlines.
Ultimately, the fact he speaks reasonably freely if foolishly is the reason he is more popular than scripted politicians.
Outside of Europe where he is the pantomime villain, I suspect he remains reasonably popular.
Clearly a lot of people from MEPs to Remain voters blame Boris. My suspicion is that until there is a bit more self-reflection things won't improve. Blaming someone else is always the easy option.
Another good example of this is how the financial crisis is entirely the fault of bonus earning bankers.
I know you like to bash the EU's governance in the past but right now that is an irrelevance for the UK.
What I do know is that diplomatic negotiations are much easier when there is genuine mutual respect across the table. Personality is, and always will be, a key component.
It's very difficult to take the personality out of it, and, as you've said yourself, given the EU politicians are not much more able than the UK politicians, I can't see them suddenly being able to leave their ego at the door, especially since it is an existential issue for a lot of them.
the actual point he was making got lost by using the nazi comaprison - that was stupid
interesting point here that our politicians need to wake up to the fact that their words are being studied on the continent
http://www.economist.com/news/britain/2 ... rstand-its0 -
Pinno wrote:briantrumpet wrote:
If it gets to that, we truly are screwed.Pinno wrote:... when the pound was £1.27 to the dollar.
Oops, better go back and edit.
whilst your there you should fix the equation
World crude prices x currency rate = price in £0 -
TheBigBean wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:TheBigBean wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:I mean, on the Nazi comment.
.......
It's that basic misunderstanding that really baffles me why they would have someone like BoJo as foreign minister. Why on earth he thought that would and could ever be a relevant comparison; particularly as he claims to be a bit of a historian.
What he said was foolish for a politician, but the actually point he was making was that there isn't a common bond between the European people so the creation of a superstate is doomed to fail. Of course, there is no discussion around this point because it is far easier to go with the cheap headlines.
Ultimately, the fact he speaks reasonably freely if foolishly is the reason he is more popular than scripted politicians.
Outside of Europe where he is the pantomime villain, I suspect he remains reasonably popular.
Clearly a lot of people from MEPs to Remain voters blame Boris. My suspicion is that until there is a bit more self-reflection things won't improve. Blaming someone else is always the easy option.
Another good example of this is how the financial crisis is entirely the fault of bonus earning bankers.
I know you like to bash the EU's governance in the past but right now that is an irrelevance for the UK.
What I do know is that diplomatic negotiations are much easier when there is genuine mutual respect across the table. Personality is, and always will be, a key component.
It's very difficult to take the personality out of it, and, as you've said yourself, given the EU politicians are not much more able than the UK politicians, I can't see them suddenly being able to leave their ego at the door, especially since it is an existential issue for a lot of them.
Boris isn't leading the negotiations, David Davis is. It is David Davis who will sit down with Guy Verhofstadt and various other appointed representatives.
Of course it would be easier if both sides had brought less extreme characters to the table.
One of things that Boris did quite well as London mayor was to promote it around the world. I presume the reason he has his current job is to promote the UK around the world as well as being well placed to satisfy leave voters. The latter point is actually quite significant - he is the best placed person to sell a soft Brexit to leave voters.
I can't imagine that much will come of the negotiations
FTFY0 -
Regarding Fujitsu, given the blasting that Unilever have got from sections of the press regarding raising their prices. I would have thought the smartest thing to do from a PR POV was to deny any undesirable business actions were due to Brexit. It also keeps the story quiet in the sections of the press that are looking to blame everything bad on Brexit...You live and learn. At any rate, you live0
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Jez mon wrote:Regarding Fujitsu, given the blasting that Unilever have got from sections of the press regarding raising their prices. I would have thought the smartest thing to do from a PR POV was to deny any undesirable business actions were due to Brexit. It also keeps the story quiet in the sections of the press that are looking to blame everything bad on Brexit...
If a business is reviewing it's operations across Europe then Brexit must influence the decision being made. The only debate can be what % impact it is0 -
Surrey Commuter wrote:
If a business is reviewing it's operations across Europe then Brexit must influence the decision being made. The only debate can be what % impact it is
Pretty good value for money in the UK at the moment.0 -
I'm not an economist, but I'm guessing that large companies aren't going to base long-term decisions on "at the moment".TheBigBean wrote:Pretty good value for money in the UK at the moment.0 -
Details of the cabinet committee set up to oversee this whole shambles revealed at last.
Unbelievably, despite this being one of the most legally complex and important set of negotiations to be undertaken in my lifetime, there's no-one from MoJ or from the Attorney General's office. Also, Wales, Scotland and NI seemingly aren't important.
The forensic mind of Angela Leadsom will be present however.
http://www.politico.eu/pro/theresa-mays ... r-cabinet/0 -
briantrumpet wrote:
I'm not an economist, but I'm guessing that large companies aren't going to base long-term decisions on "at the moment".TheBigBean wrote:Pretty good value for money in the UK at the moment.
You say that, but I find that "at the moment" influences far more things than it should. For example, recently there has been a panic about inflation being low. No amount of BoE forecasts, implied inflation forecast from gilts, OBR forecasts and low oil price explanations can trump "but it was only 1% last year".0
