BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

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Comments

  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    coopster_the_1st said:

    Here's the picture to slip into the Christmas cards we send to the French :wink:



    Why is the zone not halfway between the Shetland Islands and Norway? And the line in theIrish sea looks iffy
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    TheBigBean said:

    I'm starting to think that @tailwindhome might be right.

    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,331
    My good friends, for the third time in our history, a British Prime Minister has returned from Germany bringing plaice with honour. I believe it is plaice for our time. We thank you from the bottom of our hearts. Go home and get a nice quiet sleep.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,568
    surrey_commuter said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    darkhairedlord said:

    morstar said:

    pblakeney said:

    kingstongraham said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    S

    kingstongraham said:

    You think pensioners are by definition dependent on the state?

    Before I answer that can we agree on what a generalisation is?

    Can I apologise - I actually did not realise that 40% of pensioners' income comes from state pension. 1 in 6 have no other income.

    It's a fair generalisation, I'll allow it.
    It is a common error made on this site to group all pensioners into the same income group.
    In all fairness, we are conditioned by both government and the media to treat pensioners as a homogeneous group.
    It’s quite absurd really.
    Hence the universal pensions, winter fuel allowance, bus passes, tv licences etc.
    Things like the winter fuel allowance & free TV licences are / were given to all pensioners because to make them means tested would have made them significantly more costly in total. State Pension is a subsistence living, currently £175.20 pw on the new system, and has effectively been paid for by all pensioners who worked during their lives. Under the new system they will have needed 35 years NI contributions / credits to get the full level.
    UC is £400 a month so on your 65th birthday you would take a massive pay rise for having traversed the sun once more.

    Very few people will fund their state pension through contributions.
    No 65 year old will be getting a State Pension. you have to be 66 now, and it is rising to 68 in the next couple of decades.
    Where did I suggest people fund the State Pension fully by their NI contributions? However they have paid their share that is required of them (or had it credited to them).
    The State Pension was a classic piece of Labour policy -cracking idea except they forgot to put the money aside to fund it meaning that the NI paid by employees has to be used to pay for the State Pensions in payment.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    Dorset_Boy said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    darkhairedlord said:

    morstar said:

    pblakeney said:

    kingstongraham said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    S

    kingstongraham said:

    You think pensioners are by definition dependent on the state?

    Before I answer that can we agree on what a generalisation is?

    Can I apologise - I actually did not realise that 40% of pensioners' income comes from state pension. 1 in 6 have no other income.

    It's a fair generalisation, I'll allow it.
    It is a common error made on this site to group all pensioners into the same income group.
    In all fairness, we are conditioned by both government and the media to treat pensioners as a homogeneous group.
    It’s quite absurd really.
    Hence the universal pensions, winter fuel allowance, bus passes, tv licences etc.
    Things like the winter fuel allowance & free TV licences are / were given to all pensioners because to make them means tested would have made them significantly more costly in total. State Pension is a subsistence living, currently £175.20 pw on the new system, and has effectively been paid for by all pensioners who worked during their lives. Under the new system they will have needed 35 years NI contributions / credits to get the full level.
    UC is £400 a month so on your 65th birthday you would take a massive pay rise for having traversed the sun once more.

    Very few people will fund their state pension through contributions.
    No 65 year old will be getting a State Pension. you have to be 66 now, and it is rising to 68 in the next couple of decades.
    Where did I suggest people fund the State Pension fully by their NI contributions? However they have paid their share that is required of them (or had it credited to them).
    The State Pension was a classic piece of Labour policy -cracking idea except they forgot to put the money aside to fund it meaning that the NI paid by employees has to be used to pay for the State Pensions in payment.
    Like in every other country...
    left the forum March 2023
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Things that are the same size as the U.K. fishing industry - the U.K. sex toy industry.

    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661


    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Please offer your “withdrawal agreement” jokes
    _
  • david37
    david37 Posts: 1,313
    rick_chasey said:

    As ever you ask yourself “would this be happening if Brexit wasn’t happening?”

    All my logic stems from that.

    It’s like complaining the wife has gotten custody of the kids when you instigated a divorce when she wanted to work things out.

    Blame the courts or you ex wife all you want but if you didn’t divorce you’d still have the kids.

    Of course, it could be you dont want custody of the kids. far more fun that way

  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    edited December 2020
    rick_chasey said:

    Please offer your “withdrawal agreement” jokes

    As you are a joke when are you leaving?
  • david37
    david37 Posts: 1,313
    pangolin said:

    I still don't understand what our issue with the current fishing arrangements is. Actually that goes for a lot of our current arrangements with the EU but fishing is the one we're being told we care about.

    Any brexit supporters care to enlighten me?


    its a point of principal. Plus we have the best fishing grounds.
  • david37
    david37 Posts: 1,313
    First.Aspect said:

    coopster_the_1st said:

    kingstongraham said:

    john80 said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    TheBigBean said:

    Commission statement. One year fishing extension is requested.

    Not sure who the target audience is.

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_2368

    that is a very narrow interpretation of that statement.

    Surely that backs up my theory that they have given themselves a few days to keep the lights on etc... problem is that they have tied the necessities to fish.

    So does the Lord High Priest of the thickos keep the lights on, planes flying and food on the shelves in exchange for £3.50 of fish we could not sell anyway or does he testiculate and rely of English exceptionalism
    As a serious question do you think the EU has the commitment to essentially a trade blockage that would make Iran look like it was having an easy time of it as this is what you are describing above. I think a lot of their internal stakeholders would baulk pretty early on if they got to this position. By all means France has a group of hardened nutters that like camping outside ferry ports but when their effects are felt further from the port they will lose their support pretty quickly.
    This is a deal that would come in if there is no deal. You remember the "with no deal planes won't legally be allowed to fly to the EU" discussion?
    Are remoaners still trying to push Project Fear around planes won't be allowed to fly?

    It is more about a 10% spike in inflation right around the time that taxes will be hiked for the middle classes, and benefit cuts to the less well off, like the Tories always do. But hey, there's going to be big infrastructure investment in the South East to make up for it. Yay.

    But you are so successful Coopster that this won't be relevant to you.
    ah yes infrastructure projects which benifit a few rich tories.


    And tens of thousands of less well off labour supporters.
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,648
    david37 said:

    pangolin said:

    I still don't understand what our issue with the current fishing arrangements is. Actually that goes for a lot of our current arrangements with the EU but fishing is the one we're being told we care about.

    Any brexit supporters care to enlighten me?


    its a point of principal. Plus we have the best fishing grounds.
    Sorry, I should have said actual issue.

    It's a genuine question. Currently we are free to fish our waters and theirs. We have a large quota which we are free to sell off after we catch it or sell off to others to allow them to catch it. Portraying this as a problem of "principle" is disingenuous, unless I'm missing something.

    We could claim sole access to our waters, throw all quotas out the window and fish them to fuk, but not if we want our small fishing industry to last another generation.
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,921
    rick_chasey said:

    Things that are the same size as the U.K. fishing industry - the U.K. sex toy industry.

    It's a mystery why the EU won't give up then on fishing in UK waters.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    david37 said:

    First.Aspect said:

    coopster_the_1st said:

    kingstongraham said:

    john80 said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    TheBigBean said:

    Commission statement. One year fishing extension is requested.

    Not sure who the target audience is.

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_2368

    that is a very narrow interpretation of that statement.

    Surely that backs up my theory that they have given themselves a few days to keep the lights on etc... problem is that they have tied the necessities to fish.

    So does the Lord High Priest of the thickos keep the lights on, planes flying and food on the shelves in exchange for £3.50 of fish we could not sell anyway or does he testiculate and rely of English exceptionalism
    As a serious question do you think the EU has the commitment to essentially a trade blockage that would make Iran look like it was having an easy time of it as this is what you are describing above. I think a lot of their internal stakeholders would baulk pretty early on if they got to this position. By all means France has a group of hardened nutters that like camping outside ferry ports but when their effects are felt further from the port they will lose their support pretty quickly.
    This is a deal that would come in if there is no deal. You remember the "with no deal planes won't legally be allowed to fly to the EU" discussion?
    Are remoaners still trying to push Project Fear around planes won't be allowed to fly?

    It is more about a 10% spike in inflation right around the time that taxes will be hiked for the middle classes, and benefit cuts to the less well off, like the Tories always do. But hey, there's going to be big infrastructure investment in the South East to make up for it. Yay.

    But you are so successful Coopster that this won't be relevant to you.
    ah yes infrastructure projects which benifit a few rich tories.


    And tens of thousands of less well off labour supporters.
    They voted for it.
    _
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    pangolin said:

    david37 said:

    pangolin said:

    I still don't understand what our issue with the current fishing arrangements is. Actually that goes for a lot of our current arrangements with the EU but fishing is the one we're being told we care about.

    Any brexit supporters care to enlighten me?


    its a point of principal. Plus we have the best fishing grounds.
    Sorry, I should have said actual issue.

    It's a genuine question. Currently we are free to fish our waters and theirs. We have a large quota which we are free to sell off after we catch it or sell off to others to allow them to catch it. Portraying this as a problem of "principle" is disingenuous, unless I'm missing something.

    We could claim sole access to our waters, throw all quotas out the window and fish them to fuk, but not if we want our small fishing industry to last another generation.
    The English fishermen sold their quotas to the Spanish and now want them back. Sellers remorse....
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Things that are the same size as the U.K. fishing industry - the U.K. sex toy industry.

    It's a mystery why the EU won't give up then on fishing in UK waters.
    Haha - I suspect everyone gets over excited because they can do the whole boats with guns nonsense.
    _
  • Ben6899
    Ben6899 Posts: 9,686
    pangolin said:

    david37 said:

    pangolin said:

    I still don't understand what our issue with the current fishing arrangements is. Actually that goes for a lot of our current arrangements with the EU but fishing is the one we're being told we care about.

    Any brexit supporters care to enlighten me?


    its a point of principal. Plus we have the best fishing grounds.
    Sorry, I should have said actual issue.

    It's a genuine question. Currently we are free to fish our waters and theirs. We have a large quota which we are free to sell off after we catch it or sell off to others to allow them to catch it. Portraying this as a problem of "principle" is disingenuous, unless I'm missing something.

    We could claim sole access to our waters, throw all quotas out the window and fish them to fuk, but not if we want our small fishing industry to last another generation.

    It's mainly cod, I think. Well, if you want to be sustainable.
    Ben

    Bikes: Donhou DSS4 Custom | Condor Italia RC | Gios Megalite | Dolan Preffisio | Giant Bowery '76
    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ben_h_ppcc/
    Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/143173475@N05/
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/13/brexit-is-the-worst-decision-of-modern-times-why-are-its-critics-in-cabinet-so-silent

    Normally wouldn't post an opinion article, but it's Heseltine, so.

    _
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,183
    david37 said:

    First.Aspect said:

    coopster_the_1st said:

    kingstongraham said:

    john80 said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    TheBigBean said:

    Commission statement. One year fishing extension is requested.

    Not sure who the target audience is.

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_2368

    that is a very narrow interpretation of that statement.

    Surely that backs up my theory that they have given themselves a few days to keep the lights on etc... problem is that they have tied the necessities to fish.

    So does the Lord High Priest of the thickos keep the lights on, planes flying and food on the shelves in exchange for £3.50 of fish we could not sell anyway or does he testiculate and rely of English exceptionalism
    As a serious question do you think the EU has the commitment to essentially a trade blockage that would make Iran look like it was having an easy time of it as this is what you are describing above. I think a lot of their internal stakeholders would baulk pretty early on if they got to this position. By all means France has a group of hardened nutters that like camping outside ferry ports but when their effects are felt further from the port they will lose their support pretty quickly.
    This is a deal that would come in if there is no deal. You remember the "with no deal planes won't legally be allowed to fly to the EU" discussion?
    Are remoaners still trying to push Project Fear around planes won't be allowed to fly?

    It is more about a 10% spike in inflation right around the time that taxes will be hiked for the middle classes, and benefit cuts to the less well off, like the Tories always do. But hey, there's going to be big infrastructure investment in the South East to make up for it. Yay.

    But you are so successful Coopster that this won't be relevant to you.
    ah yes infrastructure projects which benifit a few rich tories.


    And tens of thousands of less well off labour supporters.
    You totally missed the reference to the SE didn't you.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,183
    rick_chasey said:

    Please offer your “withdrawal agreement” jokes

    We agree to disagree.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Am quite enjoying finding things that are bigger than UK fishing.

    Rockstar games.
    _
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,921
    darkhairedlord said:

    pangolin said:

    david37 said:

    pangolin said:

    I still don't understand what our issue with the current fishing arrangements is. Actually that goes for a lot of our current arrangements with the EU but fishing is the one we're being told we care about.

    Any brexit supporters care to enlighten me?


    its a point of principal. Plus we have the best fishing grounds.
    Sorry, I should have said actual issue.

    It's a genuine question. Currently we are free to fish our waters and theirs. We have a large quota which we are free to sell off after we catch it or sell off to others to allow them to catch it. Portraying this as a problem of "principle" is disingenuous, unless I'm missing something.

    We could claim sole access to our waters, throw all quotas out the window and fish them to fuk, but not if we want our small fishing industry to last another generation.
    The English fishermen sold their quotas to the Spanish and now want them back. Sellers remorse....
    That's not true. That is part of the UK quota. There is talk they want the boats to be partly UK owned though...
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    For the cost of the banking bailout during the GFC, you could bailout the fishing industry for most of the century.
    _
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,648
    rick_chasey said:

    Am quite enjoying finding things that are bigger than UK fishing.

    Rockstar games.

    Portaloos
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Things that are the same size as the U.K. fishing industry - the U.K. sex toy industry.

    It's a mystery why the EU won't give up then on fishing in UK waters.
    And why we don’t use it as an anvil on which to break them
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,387
    surrey_commuter said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Things that are the same size as the U.K. fishing industry - the U.K. sex toy industry.

    It's a mystery why the EU won't give up then on fishing in UK waters.
    And why we don’t use it as an anvil on which to break them

    I wouldn't be surprised if the blacksmith industry was bigger than fishing.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,154
    How much bigger is VW than the EU fishing industry?
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    darkhairedlord said:

    pangolin said:

    david37 said:

    pangolin said:

    I still don't understand what our issue with the current fishing arrangements is. Actually that goes for a lot of our current arrangements with the EU but fishing is the one we're being told we care about.

    Any brexit supporters care to enlighten me?


    its a point of principal. Plus we have the best fishing grounds.
    Sorry, I should have said actual issue.

    It's a genuine question. Currently we are free to fish our waters and theirs. We have a large quota which we are free to sell off after we catch it or sell off to others to allow them to catch it. Portraying this as a problem of "principle" is disingenuous, unless I'm missing something.

    We could claim sole access to our waters, throw all quotas out the window and fish them to fuk, but not if we want our small fishing industry to last another generation.
    The English fishermen sold their quotas to the Spanish and now want them back. Sellers remorse....
    I am sure I read that one Dutch boat owns one quarter of the UK quota - that is so ridiculous I may have dreamt it but if we double our tonnage does everybody keep their % the same or do we allocate new tons to proper British boats?
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,387
    It's been amusing seeing lots of comments on a Brixham photo group encouraging Johnson to crash out with no deal "in support of our fishermen", ignoring the fact that they'd lose the ability to access their main market.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois

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