BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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You're mistaking what he says with what he actually thinks.surrey_commuter said:
I think Boris’s leadership will be holed below the waterline by what will come to be seen as his failures in the Covid19 crisis. I think he will revert to type by talking optimistic nonsense to get his Govt back on track and press on with Brexit.tailwindhome said:
99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999surrey_commuter said:
So what % would you give on our glorious leader asking for an extension? 50/50tailwindhome said:
censored 'emsurrey_commuter said:
Fair point - but do “they” see it that way?tailwindhome said:surrey_commuter said:
6 months to get a deal, two year extension on the table.Stevo_666 said:
I've not seen 6 months mentioned before - the only options available are a 1 year or a 2 year extension. As to why would he ask, maybe because we have bigger fish to fry just now as mentioned before?surrey_commuter said:
I thought their position was that six months is impossible so a two year extension was ours for the asking.Stevo_666 said:
In reality both sides are in the same boat with this current cr@p, so I can't see any objections being raised.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:Michel Barnier has tested positive for Coronavirus:
https://cityam.com/eu-chief-brexit-negotiator-michel-barnier-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/
An extension is looking more and more likely in my view.
Politically, and practically, I can't see any other option, not least because of the number of the civil service who are going to have to steer us through this shïtstorm and the aftermath, whenever that might be.
I am not convinced Boris wants more than a few bilateral deals so why would he ask?
My point is that he seems not to place much value on a comprehensive deal so why delay?
The deal isn't the issue.
It's the leaving that's the issue.
Everything we need to set up to leave drains resource.
Anyone has an issue is a certifiable whack job.
Though, that's around about my prediction failure rate too
Your 99.9% prediction presupposes that Brexit is an act of economic madness. If you thought that it was the start of us regaining the greatness of Victorian times then you would see less need to delay leaving and indeed speed up departure.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Boris will only be damaged ifrjsterry said:
You're mistaking what he says with what he actually thinks.surrey_commuter said:
I think Boris’s leadership will be holed below the waterline by what will come to be seen as his failures in the Covid19 crisis. I think he will revert to type by talking optimistic nonsense to get his Govt back on track and press on with Brexit.tailwindhome said:
99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999surrey_commuter said:
So what % would you give on our glorious leader asking for an extension? 50/50tailwindhome said:
censored 'emsurrey_commuter said:
Fair point - but do “they” see it that way?tailwindhome said:surrey_commuter said:
6 months to get a deal, two year extension on the table.Stevo_666 said:
I've not seen 6 months mentioned before - the only options available are a 1 year or a 2 year extension. As to why would he ask, maybe because we have bigger fish to fry just now as mentioned before?surrey_commuter said:
I thought their position was that six months is impossible so a two year extension was ours for the asking.Stevo_666 said:
In reality both sides are in the same boat with this current cr@p, so I can't see any objections being raised.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:Michel Barnier has tested positive for Coronavirus:
https://cityam.com/eu-chief-brexit-negotiator-michel-barnier-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/
An extension is looking more and more likely in my view.
Politically, and practically, I can't see any other option, not least because of the number of the civil service who are going to have to steer us through this shïtstorm and the aftermath, whenever that might be.
I am not convinced Boris wants more than a few bilateral deals so why would he ask?
My point is that he seems not to place much value on a comprehensive deal so why delay?
The deal isn't the issue.
It's the leaving that's the issue.
Everything we need to set up to leave drains resource.
Anyone has an issue is a certifiable whack job.
Though, that's around about my prediction failure rate too
Your 99.9% prediction presupposes that Brexit is an act of economic madness. If you thought that it was the start of us regaining the greatness of Victorian times then you would see less need to delay leaving and indeed speed up departure.
a) he loses his majority
b) this is still an issue at the 2024 election
In times of crisis governments act, opposition sit on their hands. The act of weilding power makes a PM look strong.0 -
What if we end up in the top 5 countries for C19 deaths? Or top 3. In comparable countries what if we are up there with Italy whilst Germany has a fraction of the deaths.mrfpb said:
Boris will only be damaged ifrjsterry said:
You're mistaking what he says with what he actually thinks.surrey_commuter said:
I think Boris’s leadership will be holed below the waterline by what will come to be seen as his failures in the Covid19 crisis. I think he will revert to type by talking optimistic nonsense to get his Govt back on track and press on with Brexit.tailwindhome said:
99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999surrey_commuter said:
So what % would you give on our glorious leader asking for an extension? 50/50tailwindhome said:
censored 'emsurrey_commuter said:
Fair point - but do “they” see it that way?tailwindhome said:surrey_commuter said:
6 months to get a deal, two year extension on the table.Stevo_666 said:
I've not seen 6 months mentioned before - the only options available are a 1 year or a 2 year extension. As to why would he ask, maybe because we have bigger fish to fry just now as mentioned before?surrey_commuter said:
I thought their position was that six months is impossible so a two year extension was ours for the asking.Stevo_666 said:
In reality both sides are in the same boat with this current cr@p, so I can't see any objections being raised.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:Michel Barnier has tested positive for Coronavirus:
https://cityam.com/eu-chief-brexit-negotiator-michel-barnier-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/
An extension is looking more and more likely in my view.
Politically, and practically, I can't see any other option, not least because of the number of the civil service who are going to have to steer us through this shïtstorm and the aftermath, whenever that might be.
I am not convinced Boris wants more than a few bilateral deals so why would he ask?
My point is that he seems not to place much value on a comprehensive deal so why delay?
The deal isn't the issue.
It's the leaving that's the issue.
Everything we need to set up to leave drains resource.
Anyone has an issue is a certifiable whack job.
Though, that's around about my prediction failure rate too
Your 99.9% prediction presupposes that Brexit is an act of economic madness. If you thought that it was the start of us regaining the greatness of Victorian times then you would see less need to delay leaving and indeed speed up departure.
a) he loses his majority
b) this is still an issue at the 2024 election
In times of crisis governments act, opposition sit on their hands. The act of weilding power makes a PM look strong.
Japan has double our population, has had the disease two months longer and has a quarter of the deaths.
Korea has 20% smaller population, and we have already smashed 50% past there deaths.
Germany 20% bigger but a third of the deaths
We have the greatest health service in the world - who else is the public going to blame?0 -
So long as there's no election on the horizon then, in political terms, it doesn't matter. The PM will decree, the country will act. The opposition will make their concenns known privately for the sake of "national unity"
If we are still battling coronavirus in 4 years time, it will be a different story.
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Look there's a lot still to happen. If suddenly the UK has 10x the amount of deaths say, South Korea has, I can imagine things being very different politically.
It's a mug's game trying to predict politics at this point. We're in a situation the world hasn't seen in a long time0 -
Stevo_666 said:
Michel Barnier has tested positive for Coronavirus:
https://cityam.com/eu-chief-brexit-negotiator-michel-barnier-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/
An extension is looking more and more likely in my view.
Doesn't stop some people suggesting now's a good time... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/19/far-requiring-delay-coronavirus-strengthens-hand-post-brexit/
"No doubt the coronavirus is bound to take up a great deal of the government’s attention, but it would be ridiculous to suggest that its attention is so distracted that it cannot fulfil its central manifesto pledge – a pledge which followed many many others like it by the Conservative Party over a period of nearly four years. The Prime Minister himself is on the record saying that he would rather be dead in a ditch than not leave the EU. In the absence of finding a suitably sized ditch, he must not fail to fulfil the contract he entered into with the British people on 12 December 2019.
"Actually, as awful as the virus is, it strengthens the UK’s hand in negotiations.
"The EU is now in no position to do anything but to give the UK a good trade deal and cease its ridiculous demands for the UK to remain locked into a level playing field with its restrictive burdensome regulatory set up. We must press home this advantage."0 -
And that is my point, if you think that Brexit will return us to the sunlit uplands of Victorian England then rather than delay why not try and leave early?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:Michel Barnier has tested positive for Coronavirus:
https://cityam.com/eu-chief-brexit-negotiator-michel-barnier-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/
An extension is looking more and more likely in my view.
Doesn't stop some people suggesting now's a good time... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/19/far-requiring-delay-coronavirus-strengthens-hand-post-brexit/
"No doubt the coronavirus is bound to take up a great deal of the government’s attention, but it would be ridiculous to suggest that its attention is so distracted that it cannot fulfil its central manifesto pledge – a pledge which followed many many others like it by the Conservative Party over a period of nearly four years. The Prime Minister himself is on the record saying that he would rather be dead in a ditch than not leave the EU. In the absence of finding a suitably sized ditch, he must not fail to fulfil the contract he entered into with the British people on 12 December 2019.
"Actually, as awful as the virus is, it strengthens the UK’s hand in negotiations.
"The EU is now in no position to do anything but to give the UK a good trade deal and cease its ridiculous demands for the UK to remain locked into a level playing field with its restrictive burdensome regulatory set up. We must press home this advantage."0 -
I think they would just say on you go.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:Michel Barnier has tested positive for Coronavirus:
https://cityam.com/eu-chief-brexit-negotiator-michel-barnier-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/
An extension is looking more and more likely in my view.
Doesn't stop some people suggesting now's a good time... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/19/far-requiring-delay-coronavirus-strengthens-hand-post-brexit/
"No doubt the coronavirus is bound to take up a great deal of the government’s attention, but it would be ridiculous to suggest that its attention is so distracted that it cannot fulfil its central manifesto pledge – a pledge which followed many many others like it by the Conservative Party over a period of nearly four years. The Prime Minister himself is on the record saying that he would rather be dead in a ditch than not leave the EU. In the absence of finding a suitably sized ditch, he must not fail to fulfil the contract he entered into with the British people on 12 December 2019.
"Actually, as awful as the virus is, it strengthens the UK’s hand in negotiations.
"The EU is now in no position to do anything but to give the UK a good trade deal and cease its ridiculous demands for the UK to remain locked into a level playing field with its restrictive burdensome regulatory set up. We must press home this advantage."
In the middle of a real and major economy defining crisis for the entire block, they aren’t going to pander to our whimsical Brexit self perpetuated crisis.
I think they’d be surprised we chose to pursue it at that point. Would then go and have a private chat and come back with a resounding, nobody has the time, resource or energy and as we have no idea what is going to be left at then end of this, you get on with it.
And btw, if you do change your mind, you’re welcome to extend.0 -
I think any contrary assumptions are based on the “They need us more than them” philosophy.morstar said:
I think they would just say on you go.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:Michel Barnier has tested positive for Coronavirus:
https://cityam.com/eu-chief-brexit-negotiator-michel-barnier-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/
An extension is looking more and more likely in my view.
Doesn't stop some people suggesting now's a good time... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/19/far-requiring-delay-coronavirus-strengthens-hand-post-brexit/
"No doubt the coronavirus is bound to take up a great deal of the government’s attention, but it would be ridiculous to suggest that its attention is so distracted that it cannot fulfil its central manifesto pledge – a pledge which followed many many others like it by the Conservative Party over a period of nearly four years. The Prime Minister himself is on the record saying that he would rather be dead in a ditch than not leave the EU. In the absence of finding a suitably sized ditch, he must not fail to fulfil the contract he entered into with the British people on 12 December 2019.
"Actually, as awful as the virus is, it strengthens the UK’s hand in negotiations.
"The EU is now in no position to do anything but to give the UK a good trade deal and cease its ridiculous demands for the UK to remain locked into a level playing field with its restrictive burdensome regulatory set up. We must press home this advantage."
In the middle of a real and major economy defining crisis for the entire block, they aren’t going to pander to our whimsical Brexit self perpetuated crisis.
I think they’d be surprised we chose to pursue it at that point. Would then go and have a private chat and come back with a resounding, nobody has the time, resource or energy and as we have no idea what is going to be left at then end of this, you get on with it.
And btw, if you do change your mind, you’re welcome to extend.
So far that hasn’t really delivered many returns.
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The more I think about this, the more it strikes me that this is the national equivalent of the hoarding and price gouging behaviour we’re seeing at a local level.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:Michel Barnier has tested positive for Coronavirus:
https://cityam.com/eu-chief-brexit-negotiator-michel-barnier-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/
An extension is looking more and more likely in my view.
Doesn't stop some people suggesting now's a good time... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/19/far-requiring-delay-coronavirus-strengthens-hand-post-brexit/
"No doubt the coronavirus is bound to take up a great deal of the government’s attention, but it would be ridiculous to suggest that its attention is so distracted that it cannot fulfil its central manifesto pledge – a pledge which followed many many others like it by the Conservative Party over a period of nearly four years. The Prime Minister himself is on the record saying that he would rather be dead in a ditch than not leave the EU. In the absence of finding a suitably sized ditch, he must not fail to fulfil the contract he entered into with the British people on 12 December 2019.
"Actually, as awful as the virus is, it strengthens the UK’s hand in negotiations.
"The EU is now in no position to do anything but to give the UK a good trade deal and cease its ridiculous demands for the UK to remain locked into a level playing field with its restrictive burdensome regulatory set up. We must press home this advantage."
Even if we were to get away with it, it would be pretty despicable.
Now, you can argue that all is fair in politics and maybe it is, maybe it isn’t. But that does not mean there are no consequences to exploiting opportunism.
Payback is frequently delayed.
It also proves the me, me, me mentality that always made us the distant relation in the European Union. We never thought of it as a union.
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If anything that article shows that the hardline Brexiters are nothing more than extremist revolutionaries who will not let piles of bodies get in they way of their pursuit of victory.0
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I don’t follow the logic for why C19 crisis means they give us whatever we want0
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In case it’s not clear, I agree.surrey_commuter said:I don’t follow the logic for why C19 crisis means they give us whatever we want
My posts above are based on a ‘just supposing they did’ hypothesis.
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It is crazy talk to perpetuate division when we need collaboration more than ever. Without europe, Britain starves.0
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morstar said:
In case it’s not clear, I agree.surrey_commuter said:I don’t follow the logic for why C19 crisis means they give us whatever we want
My posts above are based on a ‘just supposing they did’ hypothesis.
Neither do I, really, except they are essentially juggling three things: a pandemic, public reaction to rapidly evolving reactive strictures, and economics. I guess they are prioritising the first two, and hoping that 'something will turn up' in regards the latter.0 -
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/28/fruit-and-veg-will-run-out-unless-britain-charters-planes-to-fly-in-farm-workers-from-eastern-europe
What's going on here? If we still need to fly in 90,000 farm workers when there are literally millions of British people not working, what was the point?0 -
Maybe if farm workers got paid a wage/decent uplift from benefits and we allows claimants to seemlessly return to benefits we coild actually staff these positions.0
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Following the economic halt there will be plenty of local labour around to test this theory. There is a good chance some sort of lockdown could still be in place so this will give the opportunity for many to be outside and get exercise for a large part of the dayjohn80 said:Maybe if farm workers got paid a wage/decent uplift from benefits and we allows claimants to seemlessly return to benefits we coild actually staff these positions.
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Possibly the usual unremitting positivity of the Guardian?kingstongraham said:https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/28/fruit-and-veg-will-run-out-unless-britain-charters-planes-to-fly-in-farm-workers-from-eastern-europe
What's going on here? If we still need to fly in 90,000 farm workers when there are literally millions of British people not working, what was the point?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Of course there are two ways to ensure they get a decent uplift from benefitsjohn80 said:Maybe if farm workers got paid a wage/decent uplift from benefits and we allows claimants to seemlessly return to benefits we coild actually staff these positions.
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Oops wrong thread
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
This was covered in some detail on Newsnight last night, so not just the Graun. There is fairly serious concern in the industry about food shortages in the summer and autumn if we can't pick what we've grown. While nobody is going to get rich picking veg, the wages are better than being on UC. Difficult to believe that even now, people are turning their nose up at work.Stevo_666 said:
Possibly the usual unremitting positivity of the Guardian?kingstongraham said:https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/28/fruit-and-veg-will-run-out-unless-britain-charters-planes-to-fly-in-farm-workers-from-eastern-europe
What's going on here? If we still need to fly in 90,000 farm workers when there are literally millions of British people not working, what was the point?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I suspect the weather will play a part in how many people opt to do it. Get a decent summer and I would have thought a lot of people would seize the opportunity to get outdoors and earn some money (at least until they realise how hard the work is). I used to low spending my summer holidays our hay baling and all I got paid was a massive amount of food at the end of the day.rjsterry said:
This was covered in some detail on Newsnight last night, so not just the Graun. There is fairly serious concern in the industry about food shortages in the summer and autumn if we can't pick what we've grown. While nobody is going to get rich picking veg, the wages are better than being on UC. Difficult to believe that even now, people are turning their nose up at work.Stevo_666 said:
Possibly the usual unremitting positivity of the Guardian?kingstongraham said:https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/28/fruit-and-veg-will-run-out-unless-britain-charters-planes-to-fly-in-farm-workers-from-eastern-europe
What's going on here? If we still need to fly in 90,000 farm workers when there are literally millions of British people not working, what was the point?0 -
Turns out it's not a superstate and member countries can operate independently in their own interests then.0
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Not yet. And it this rate it probably never will be...kingstongraham said:Turns out it's not a superstate and member countries can operate independently in their own interests then.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
The man from the Mail on Sunday 'rolling the pitch'
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Good news0
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Mail on Sunday with its new editor has been more sensible than the weekday paper on Brexit. Doubt you'd ever get an assumption that Brexit 'hampers the recovery efforts' in the weekday paper.0
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In this current situation I have no problem in looking at this pragmatically and extending the transition to 31st Dec 2021, however that is as long as no additional money is paid out for this.
The cynic in me says they are just trying to get more money out of the UK. This approach will prove if this is really an administrative issue or them trying to take the piSS0 -
I suppose you can class the civil services of both sides addressing a global pandemic and the head of one of the negotiating parties being in intensive care as "an administrative issue."
As far as I'm aware, continued contributions by UK during delays to A.50 and end of transition are deducted from the "divorce bill" (the A.50 delays definitely are).0
