BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    A more minor irritation is how relaxed Brexiters are about Carney talking about the possible impact of the virus, but god if he does the same for Brexit they all kick off.

    You are not even mildly irritated that they are so bothered about an economic blip that we are forecast to recover from in two years when they happily cheer Boris on to inflict permanent economic harm in the name of political ideology?
    If you mean Brexit and how they're negotiating - yes awful.

    If you mean massive stimulus to try and shore up the incoming economic crisis - I'm all for it.
    _
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Why not keep the powder dry and spend it on solving virus related problems?

    If you spent £2.5bn on all households then they get a £100 each. If you used the same money on sorting sick pay for those in the gig economy then they get access to at least £500.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Why not both?
    _
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151
    The thing that gets me is that the people who make the decision to kick the debt can yet again, will be gone and in their gated communities when it's austerity time again. Most people wouldn't use this logic running their own company or household (accountability, responsibility).
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    focuszing723 said:

    The thing that gets me is that the people who make the decision to kick the debt can yet again, will be gone and in their gated communities when it's austerity time again. Most people wouldn't use this logic running their own company or household (accountability, responsibility).

    The trade off between joy today in exchange for deferred pain is very strong. In an entirely unrepresentative sample you are only the the third person in Cake Stop to advocate moderation in Govt borrowing.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151
    surrey_commuter said:

    focuszing723 said:

    The thing that gets me is that the people who make the decision to kick the debt can yet again, will be gone and in their gated communities when it's austerity time again. Most people wouldn't use this logic running their own company or household (accountability, responsibility).

    The trade off between joy today in exchange for deferred pain is very strong. In an entirely unrepresentative sample you are only the the third person in Cake Stop to advocate moderation in Govt borrowing.
    I guess I'm happy and grateful with what I have and I'd rather sustainable growth than a predictable boom and bust.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rick_chasey said:

    Why not both?


    I don’t think you get my point. Let’s go micro and imagine an independent coffee shop who has seen revenues halve because footfall has cratered. What good will shaving 2.5% off VAT do to help?

    Why not target the money on small businesses with something like suspending business rates and get the Govt to cover full sick pay for the next 3 months.

    Giving every taxpayer £1k would cost £30bn but would not save the coffee shop.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Sure, I'm saying, why not both?
    _
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rick_chasey said:

    Sure, I'm saying, why not both?

    You know my answer to that. If the previous greedy feckers had not put us in hock then the Govt would have £46bn extra to spend this year
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Assuming that had they not spent that earlier we'd have the same revs as now, which is plainly not the case.
    _
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    coopster_the_1st said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Just a thought: could this bloody outbreak become a reason to extend the transition period to deal with a common global problem and get back to negotiations once it's a bit safer to do so?

    You may be surprised to hear that remoaners(ie Lib Dums) were just today already politicising this outbreak and are actually suggesting using 'Miley' as the reason to delay Brexit.

    You might try writting in English rather than juvenile-text-jive. Others might be able to understand you.. oh..
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rick_chasey said:

    Assuming that had they not spent that earlier we'd have the same revs as now, which is plainly not the case.

    That is not plain at all.

    So after ten years of deficits in which we have doubled debt and with a new leader primed to launch the largest peacetime fiscal expansion you have no qualms about just borrowing some more?

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Assuming that had they not spent that earlier we'd have the same revs as now, which is plainly not the case.

    That is not plain at all.

    So after ten years of deficits in which we have doubled debt and with a new leader primed to launch the largest peacetime fiscal expansion you have no qualms about just borrowing some more?

    Curious to know if the % spent on debt servicing has grown or shrank in the last 10 years.

    Have a suspicion it's shrank.
    _
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Why not both?


    I don’t think you get my point. Let’s go micro and imagine an independent coffee shop who has seen revenues halve because footfall has cratered. What good will shaving 2.5% off VAT do to help?

    Why not target the money on small businesses with something like suspending business rates and get the Govt to cover full sick pay for the next 3 months.

    Giving every taxpayer £1k would cost £30bn but would not save the coffee shop.


    Good news. If your coffee shop is in England and has a rateable value under £51k they've no rates bill this year.

    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,417
    Looks like the trade talks may be postponed:
    https://independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-brexit-trade-eu-deal-talks-michael-gove-boris-johnson-negotiations-a9393511.html
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    So we're getting to see a No Deal Brexit after all
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    tailwindhome said:

    So we're getting to see a No Deal Brexit after all

    It’s potentially a really significant change in the dynamic.
    If we are genuinely under a government that is happy with no deal then this doesn’t make a whole load of difference.
    However, if the whole deadline and no deal thing is just a bluff (admittedly a far more convincing one than TM’s), then UK could be forced to show its hand before negotiations have really gone anywhere because of this.
    That is genuinely quite unfortunate.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    morstar said:

    tailwindhome said:

    So we're getting to see a No Deal Brexit after all

    It’s potentially a really significant change in the dynamic.
    If we are genuinely under a government that is happy with no deal then this doesn’t make a whole load of difference.
    However, if the whole deadline and no deal thing is just a bluff (admittedly a far more convincing one than TM’s), then UK could be forced to show its hand before negotiations have really gone anywhere because of this.
    That is genuinely quite unfortunate.
    I think we are learning to judge Boris by his off guard comments “fvck business” and “no checks on Irish border”

    If they are him being honest then all he wants from these talks is to duck the blame, what better that Covid19 and Brussels.

    If you look at his budget he seems to think Govt can drive the economy
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436


    Ha!
    Nobody cares...
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,417
    tailwindhome said:

    So we're getting to see a No Deal Brexit after all

    I would not rule out an extension of the transition period. We are in completely uncharted waters now.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Stevo_666 said:

    tailwindhome said:

    So we're getting to see a No Deal Brexit after all

    I would not rule out an extension of the transition period. We are in completely uncharted waters now.
    for what Boris seems to want there does not seem to be any reason to extend
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    Stevo_666 said:

    tailwindhome said:

    So we're getting to see a No Deal Brexit after all

    I would not rule out an extension of the transition period. We are in completely uncharted waters now.
    I was being a bit facetious with regard to panic buying.
    Not sure it's happening in GB to the same extent, but in NI and ROI supermarkets have been stripped bare.

    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    Stevo_666 said:

    I would not rule out an extension of the transition period. .

    On the face of it the only option seems to be a 1 or 2 year extension, one off choice, made in June.

    It'll be interesting to see if other options can be created, one for the lawyers
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,417
    tailwindhome said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    tailwindhome said:

    So we're getting to see a No Deal Brexit after all

    I would not rule out an extension of the transition period. We are in completely uncharted waters now.
    I was being a bit facetious with regard to panic buying.
    Not sure it's happening in GB to the same extent, but in NI and ROI supermarkets have been stripped bare.

    We seem seem to be clean out of bog roll most of the time, so I'm going to call them and ask about deliveries so I have half a chance of getting some when I go down the shops over the weekend. Pasta is clean out but apart from that not too bad. I even got a pack of baby wipes the other day.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,417
    tailwindhome said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    I would not rule out an extension of the transition period. .

    On the face of it the only option seems to be a 1 or 2 year extension, one off choice, made in June.

    It'll be interesting to see if other options can be created, one for the lawyers
    Those are the only options per the withdrawal agreement. I'm sure if the UK and EU agreed to create new option by mutual consent they could, but I would have thought that one of the current options should work.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,329
    tailwindhome said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    tailwindhome said:

    So we're getting to see a No Deal Brexit after all

    I would not rule out an extension of the transition period. We are in completely uncharted waters now.
    I was being a bit facetious with regard to panic buying.
    Not sure it's happening in GB to the same extent, but in NI and ROI supermarkets have been stripped bare.

    tailwindhome said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    tailwindhome said:

    So we're getting to see a No Deal Brexit after all

    I would not rule out an extension of the transition period. We are in completely uncharted waters now.
    I popped into Tesco hyper market on the way home to pick up some rice to go with a curry tonight.
    The shelves had been completely emptied of bread, pasta and rice. 😡
    Change of menu then.

    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    _
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    Stevo_666 said:

    tailwindhome said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    I would not rule out an extension of the transition period. .

    On the face of it the only option seems to be a 1 or 2 year extension, one off choice, made in June.

    It'll be interesting to see if other options can be created, one for the lawyers
    Those are the only options per the withdrawal agreement. I'm sure if the UK and EU agreed to create new option by mutual consent they could, but I would have thought that one of the current options should work.
    From memory of 'what if' discussions I read online it would be complex to do as you're no longer working within the framework of Article 50. I'd suspect no one's going to want the ball-ache of getting 28 countries to agree an extension *just* to be different than the existing options.

    Where we are now I don't see any down side to extending for 1 year



    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,369
    What happened to the £ - euro rate?... hadn't looked for a while, wondered if now might be a time to buy some euros, but the £ has sunk to 1.10... genuine question... thought with Italy looking like a basket case that the euro might be suffering.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,329
    edited March 2020
    Remember when this was the big issue?
    Strange times.

    But to answer your question, this is really strange times. When the markets are crashing you’d expect gold to be flying, yet no. Everything has gone to pot.
    Don’t mind if I do, things may make more sense. 😉
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.

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