BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

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  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    rick_chasey said:

    No i thought it was odd you were offering up some defences for what is clearly a ridiculous position to take.

    I was offering up an explanation not an opinion on whether it is right or wrong. I find the negotiating positions interesting and have limited interest in tribal politics.

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    No i thought it was odd you were offering up some defences for what is clearly a ridiculous position to take.

    I was offering up an explanation not an opinion on whether it is right or wrong. I find the negotiating positions interesting and have limited interest in tribal politics.

    There's nothing tribal about calling that position idiotic. Sometimes, things are just idiotic.
    _
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    No i thought it was odd you were offering up some defences for what is clearly a ridiculous position to take.

    I was offering up an explanation not an opinion on whether it is right or wrong. I find the negotiating positions interesting and have limited interest in tribal politics.

    There's nothing tribal about calling that position idiotic. Sometimes, things are just idiotic.
    Then critique the arguments not the poster.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Pross said:

    dennisn said:

    I've tried to follow this for some time. Would someone care to, briefly if possible, give me the pros and cons without going into some political or emotional rant?

    I doubt it!
    Now THAT I can believe. People will argue about chain lube.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    coopster_the_1st said:

    dennisn said:

    I've tried to follow this for some time. Would someone care to, briefly if possible, give me the pros and cons without going into some political or emotional rant?

    You are or live in America if I am correct?

    Based on the above would you and your fellow Americans allow the EU as a group to negotiate your trade deals, tell the US what sales taxes to charge, to have a European Court higher than your Supreme Court, to allow uncontrolled migration between the EU and US?

    In other words for the US to become ever more subordinate to EU politics.

    And for the above and many more things you have to pay way above the administration costs because you are a richer country? I'm going to guess but the amount the US pay would be over $100bn a year.

    FWIW I believe that the U.S.probably pays out "$100bn a year" in what's called foreign aid. And believe me that is a big bone of contention over here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    No i thought it was odd you were offering up some defences for what is clearly a ridiculous position to take.

    I was offering up an explanation not an opinion on whether it is right or wrong. I find the negotiating positions interesting and have limited interest in tribal politics.

    There's nothing tribal about calling that position idiotic. Sometimes, things are just idiotic.
    Then critique the arguments not the poster.
    Yeah OK fair.
    _
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    More EU regs, Virgin are flying empty planes as if they don't they will lose take off and landing slots. The UK government has asked for a temporary exemption.
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    TheBigBean said:

    More EU regs, Virgin are flying empty planes as if they don't they will lose take off and landing slots. The UK government has asked for a temporary exemption.

    Unfair framing of EU regs there.
    The issue exists globally.
    But 100% agree that an exceptional circumstances relaxation is required.
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    It’s interesting though this framing of regulations as a negative. (In general, not the specific post).
    Clearly not all regulations are either well intended or achieve the intended outcome. But, as a general rule, I’d suggest most regulations are to the benefit of the majority of people.
    Take health and safety for example. It’s all pretty tedious but generally we know in this country we are safe at work. That is absolutely not the case in many countries. Not sure how it is a bad thing.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    There's no problem with regulation, but the key thing is how quickly and dynamically it can change in response to events. Perhaps the commission will announce something today.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,417
    TheBigBean said:

    There's no problem with regulation, but the key thing is how quickly and dynamically it can change in response to events. Perhaps the commission will announce something today.

    Unfortunately the squadron of pigs has been grounded :smile:
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    TheBigBean said:

    There's no problem with regulation, but the key thing is how quickly and dynamically it can change in response to events. Perhaps the commission will announce something today.

    It all needs to be coordinated globally. This really isn’t an EU or a Brexit issue.
    _
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    morstar said:

    TheBigBean said:

    More EU regs, Virgin are flying empty planes as if they don't they will lose take off and landing slots. The UK government has asked for a temporary exemption.

    Unfair framing of EU regs there.
    The issue exists globally.
    But 100% agree that an exceptional circumstances relaxation is required.
    Agreed. One of the plus points of Coronavirus is that it should temporarily help the environment so flying empty planes just to maintain slots even eliminates that one minor positive as well as costing airlines at a time when they're losing money.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    I'm currently on a plane (against my wishes) and it has made the whole flying experience a lot more pleasant, but there are probably larger issues at play than the extent to which I am inconvenienced.

    On the subject of regs, it may require more than one jurisdiction to act, but they still both need to do it and it doesn't requirement agreement, so best to just crack on. I do actually expect the commission to do something quickly on this one.
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    Stevo_666 said:

    TheBigBean said:

    There's no problem with regulation, but the key thing is how quickly and dynamically it can change in response to events. Perhaps the commission will announce something today.

    Unfortunately the squadron of pigs has been grounded :smile:
    I'm guessing Virgin & BA are hogging the takeoff slots with ghost flights ;)
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    TheBigBean said:

    I'm currently on a plane (against my wishes) ...

    Extraordinary rendition?
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    elbowloh said:

    TheBigBean said:

    I'm currently on a plane (against my wishes) ...

    Extraordinary rendition?
    It feels like that.

    Still takes forever to land/take-off with all the ghost flights.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,556
    Interesting trade press Op-Ed on the decision to withdraw from EASA. According to this the industry was promised that the government would be led by the evidence and would be consulting the industry before making their decision. Then before any of that, Shapps just announced that we were leaving and setting up our own version, against the pretty much unanimous wishes of the industry.

    https://aviationweek.com/air-transport/safety-ops-regulation/op-ed-government-promises-follow-evidence-must-be-more-good
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,417
    Credit where credit is due:
    https://telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/03/10/brussels-caves-haltghost-flights/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

    Maybe behind a paywall, so quote from the article:
    "European regulators have handed airlines a lifeline, bowing to pressure from the British Government as coronavirus rips through the industry and puts thousands of jobs at risk.

    Rules requiring the likes of British Airways and Virgin Atlantic to run “ghost services” will be suspended, European officials announced on Tuesday."
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,556
    Stevo_666 said:

    Credit where credit is due:
    https://telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/03/10/brussels-caves-haltghost-flights/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

    Maybe behind a paywall, so quote from the article:
    "European regulators have handed airlines a lifeline, bowing to pressure from the British Government as coronavirus rips through the industry and puts thousands of jobs at risk.

    Rules requiring the likes of British Airways and Virgin Atlantic to run “ghost services” will be suspended, European officials announced on Tuesday."

    Good news.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,417
    Just a thought: could this bloody outbreak become a reason to extend the transition period to deal with a common global problem and get back to negotiations once it's a bit safer to do so?

    In can't see the prospect of locking big teams of negotiators in rooms for days on end as being massively appealing or sensible if the rate of spread continues to accelerate.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Stevo_666 said:

    Just a thought: could this bloody outbreak become a reason to extend the transition period to deal with a common global problem and get back to negotiations once it's a bit safer to do so?

    In can't see the prospect of locking big teams of negotiators in rooms for days on end as being massively appealing or sensible if the rate of spread continues to accelerate.

    Extending the transition period is a political not an economic one. Brexit is not driven by economics so I don’t see this happening
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,556
    Stevo_666 said:

    Just a thought: could this bloody outbreak become a reason to extend the transition period to deal with a common global problem and get back to negotiations once it's a bit safer to do so?

    In can't see the prospect of locking big teams of negotiators in rooms for days on end as being massively appealing or sensible if the rate of spread continues to accelerate.

    Simon Nixon at the Times posted a similar thought although more from a convenient excuse POV. It would seem sensible but then...
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    edited March 2020
    Stevo_666 said:

    Just a thought: could this bloody outbreak become a reason to extend the transition period to deal with a common global problem and get back to negotiations once it's a bit safer to do so?

    You may be surprised to hear that remoaners(ie Lib Dums) were just today already politicising this outbreak and are actually suggesting using 'Miley' as the reason to delay Brexit.

  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,417
    surrey_commuter said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Just a thought: could this bloody outbreak become a reason to extend the transition period to deal with a common global problem and get back to negotiations once it's a bit safer to do so?

    In can't see the prospect of locking big teams of negotiators in rooms for days on end as being massively appealing or sensible if the rate of spread continues to accelerate.

    Extending the transition period is a political not an economic one. Brexit is not driven by economics so I don’t see this happening
    Not sure the Corona outbreak is purely an economic issue.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,417
    coopster_the_1st said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Just a thought: could this bloody outbreak become a reason to extend the transition period to deal with a common global problem and get back to negotiations once it's a bit safer to do so?

    You may be surprised to hear that remoaners(ie Lib Dums) were just today already politicising this outbreak and are actually suggesting using 'Miley' as the reason to delay Brexit.

    coopster_the_1st said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Just a thought: could this bloody outbreak become a reason to extend the transition period to deal with a common global problem and get back to negotiations once it's a bit safer to do so?

    You may be surprised to hear that remoaners(ie Lib Dums) were just today already politicising this outbreak and are actually suggesting using 'Miley' as the reason to delay Brexit.

    It also shows that there are more important things than Brexit right now.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    Stevo_666 said:

    coopster_the_1st said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Just a thought: could this bloody outbreak become a reason to extend the transition period to deal with a common global problem and get back to negotiations once it's a bit safer to do so?

    You may be surprised to hear that remoaners(ie Lib Dums) were just today already politicising this outbreak and are actually suggesting using 'Miley' as the reason to delay Brexit.

    coopster_the_1st said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Just a thought: could this bloody outbreak become a reason to extend the transition period to deal with a common global problem and get back to negotiations once it's a bit safer to do so?

    You may be surprised to hear that remoaners(ie Lib Dums) were just today already politicising this outbreak and are actually suggesting using 'Miley' as the reason to delay Brexit.

    It also shows that there are more important things than Brexit right now.
    There is no reason why the 2 streams cannot still run parallel with the virus response the greater priority. Apart from a couple of people at the top level there is no cross over.

    Part of me is surprised the budget has not been postponed as in a months time it could have to be torn up and changed completely. They rightly are not postponing it though because doing so would shatter already very fragile business confidence.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    God you're stupid.
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    A more minor irritation is how relaxed Brexiters are about Carney talking about the possible impact of the virus, but god if he does the same for Brexit they all kick off.
    _
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rick_chasey said:

    A more minor irritation is how relaxed Brexiters are about Carney talking about the possible impact of the virus, but god if he does the same for Brexit they all kick off.

    You are not even mildly irritated that they are so bothered about an economic blip that we are forecast to recover from in two years when they happily cheer Boris on to inflict permanent economic harm in the name of political ideology?

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