BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

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  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    Jeremy.89 said:

    I don't really feel like saying the technology exists for oil rigs therefore it maps over to bridges really checks out. The difference in acceptable level of risk, and expected lifetime between a bridge and a rig is surely quite high?

    The huge gulf between "it is technically possible" and "it is a good idea".
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,411
    kingstongraham said:

    They should dig a tunnel as well, for when the bridge has to close because of the weather like the QE2 bridge the other day.

    Tunnel sounds more sensible and has some backing here:
    https://belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/forget-bridge-tunnel-best-way-to-link-northern-ireland-and-great-britain-say-experts-38836107.html

    Although I'm sure if we were having this debate 30 years ago, some people would be saying that a 20-odd mile tunnel under the sea is not feasible...

    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436

    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    We done N26 yet?

    _
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    Who?
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Jeremy.89
    Jeremy.89 Posts: 457
    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    They should dig a tunnel as well, for when the bridge has to close because of the weather like the QE2 bridge the other day.

    Tunnel sounds more sensible and has some backing here:
    https://belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/forget-bridge-tunnel-best-way-to-link-northern-ireland-and-great-britain-say-experts-38836107.html

    Although I'm sure if we were having this debate 30 years ago, some people would be saying that a 20-odd mile tunnel under the sea is not feasible...

    You mean two years after construction had started? I don't think it's the technical possibility that is the real concern. Its the fact that the practicalities don't seem to stack up. You're looking at a massive detour compared to the most popular ferry routes, which will all require many miles of improved roads, through sparsely populated areas.

    Of course, I imagine the civil engineering consultancies are wetting themselves with excitement.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    rjsterry said:

    Who?

    I assumed it was an infrastructure project until the link loaded up.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,411
    Jeremy.89 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    They should dig a tunnel as well, for when the bridge has to close because of the weather like the QE2 bridge the other day.

    Tunnel sounds more sensible and has some backing here:
    https://belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/forget-bridge-tunnel-best-way-to-link-northern-ireland-and-great-britain-say-experts-38836107.html

    Although I'm sure if we were having this debate 30 years ago, some people would be saying that a 20-odd mile tunnel under the sea is not feasible...

    You mean two years after construction had started? I don't think it's the technical possibility that is the real concern. Its the fact that the practicalities don't seem to stack up. You're looking at a massive detour compared to the most popular ferry routes, which will all require many miles of improved roads, through sparsely populated areas.

    Of course, I imagine the civil engineering consultancies are wetting themselves with excitement.
    Good to see the Cake Stop mentality is still alive and kicking ;)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    I really don't get it. You could be bragging about the go ahead on HS2 or the investment in cycle routes but instead you're trying to justify some fantasy bridge.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    tailwindhome said:

    rjsterry said:

    Who?

    I assumed it was an infrastructure project until the link loaded up.
    Me, too.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,411
    edited February 2020
    rjsterry said:

    I really don't get it. You could be bragging about the go ahead on HS2 or the investment in cycle routes but instead you're trying to justify some fantasy bridge.

    Not really, just saying what is possible. I know that doesn't sit comfortably with some on here.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    Stevo_666 said:

    Jeremy.89 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    They should dig a tunnel as well, for when the bridge has to close because of the weather like the QE2 bridge the other day.

    Tunnel sounds more sensible and has some backing here:
    https://belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/forget-bridge-tunnel-best-way-to-link-northern-ireland-and-great-britain-say-experts-38836107.html

    Although I'm sure if we were having this debate 30 years ago, some people would be saying that a 20-odd mile tunnel under the sea is not feasible...

    You mean two years after construction had started? I don't think it's the technical possibility that is the real concern. Its the fact that the practicalities don't seem to stack up. You're looking at a massive detour compared to the most popular ferry routes, which will all require many miles of improved roads, through sparsely populated areas.

    Of course, I imagine the civil engineering consultancies are wetting themselves with excitement.
    Good to see the Cake Stop mentality is still alive and kicking ;)
    I work in the industry so would be more than happy for money to be thrown at it. I wouldn't be directly involved but giving the big boys something like that to play with keeps them away from smaller schemes that my company works on.

    I still think it's a ridiculous plan and the money would be better spent on improving the existing road and rail links to the ports. It's the equivalent of building the Channel Tunnel from Norfolk to northern Holland.
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    BJ will get the Irish to pay for the bridge.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    I really don't get it. You could be bragging about the go ahead on HS2 or the investment in cycle routes but instead you're trying to justify some fantasy bridge.

    Not really, just saying what is possible. I know that doesn't sit comfortably with some on here.
    I'd have thought that'd have been you, given how adverse you are to any government spending, let alone very profligate white elephant projects.
    _
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    Maybe he too doesn't want to talk about HS2 :)
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,329
    rjsterry said:

    Maybe he too doesn't want to talk about HS2 :)

    My thinking is that the primary objective of the bridge is to be diversionary.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    pblakeney said:

    rjsterry said:

    Maybe he too doesn't want to talk about HS2 :)

    My thinking is that the primary objective of the bridge is to be diversionary.
    Very diversionary, it will add hundreds of miles to most freight journeys :wink:
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,329
    😂😂😂
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    Pross said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Jeremy.89 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    They should dig a tunnel as well, for when the bridge has to close because of the weather like the QE2 bridge the other day.

    Tunnel sounds more sensible and has some backing here:
    https://belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/forget-bridge-tunnel-best-way-to-link-northern-ireland-and-great-britain-say-experts-38836107.html

    Although I'm sure if we were having this debate 30 years ago, some people would be saying that a 20-odd mile tunnel under the sea is not feasible...

    You mean two years after construction had started? I don't think it's the technical possibility that is the real concern. Its the fact that the practicalities don't seem to stack up. You're looking at a massive detour compared to the most popular ferry routes, which will all require many miles of improved roads, through sparsely populated areas.

    Of course, I imagine the civil engineering consultancies are wetting themselves with excitement.
    Good to see the Cake Stop mentality is still alive and kicking ;)
    I work in the industry so would be more than happy for money to be thrown at it. I wouldn't be directly involved but giving the big boys something like that to play with keeps them away from smaller schemes that my company works on.

    I still think it's a ridiculous plan and the money would be better spent on improving the existing road and rail links to the ports. It's the equivalent of building the Channel Tunnel from Norfolk to northern Holland.
    While the bridge would be a great statement that the UK is still at the leading edge of innovation I think it will be almost obsolete by the time it is built with technological advances in other areas.

    I'm also for HS2 but against the chosen route. It needs to part of a wider UK wide high speed network though to reduce the reliance on internal air travel.

    However the first project that should have been announced was a Hull to Liverpool east-west HS train line
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    coopster_the_1st said:

    Pross said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Jeremy.89 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    They should dig a tunnel as well, for when the bridge has to close because of the weather like the QE2 bridge the other day.

    Tunnel sounds more sensible and has some backing here:
    https://belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/forget-bridge-tunnel-best-way-to-link-northern-ireland-and-great-britain-say-experts-38836107.html

    Although I'm sure if we were having this debate 30 years ago, some people would be saying that a 20-odd mile tunnel under the sea is not feasible...

    You mean two years after construction had started? I don't think it's the technical possibility that is the real concern. Its the fact that the practicalities don't seem to stack up. You're looking at a massive detour compared to the most popular ferry routes, which will all require many miles of improved roads, through sparsely populated areas.

    Of course, I imagine the civil engineering consultancies are wetting themselves with excitement.
    Good to see the Cake Stop mentality is still alive and kicking ;)
    I work in the industry so would be more than happy for money to be thrown at it. I wouldn't be directly involved but giving the big boys something like that to play with keeps them away from smaller schemes that my company works on.

    I still think it's a ridiculous plan and the money would be better spent on improving the existing road and rail links to the ports. It's the equivalent of building the Channel Tunnel from Norfolk to northern Holland.


    However the first project that should have been announced was a Hull to Liverpool east-west HS train line
    100% yes.
    You can justify HS2 in isolation as adding benefits but it is 100% not the most important project.
    Travel from north to London is already fast and efficient.
    Cross country not so. Umpteen changes on slow lines and largely poor quality rolling stock. This is a route that links some of England’s biggest cities and literally scores of sizeable towns.

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    I think the argument for HS2 is more around the load of the lines going that way, and by having another line you can free up a lot of load on some of the more local lines for freight etc.

    May have totally got that wrong.
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,411
    darkhairedlord said:

    BJ will get the Irish to pay for the bridge.

    :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    rick_chasey said:

    I think the argument for HS2 is more around the load of the lines going that way, and by having another line you can free up a lot of load on some of the more local lines for freight etc.

    May have totally got that wrong.

    Two things.
    1) I am not saying a case can’t be made for HS2.
    2) A much stronger case can be made for other projects imho.

    Here’s the thing, I can get from the north west to London quickly easily and comfortably. Overcrowding is not a major issue I have encountered on this route (prices are but that is a whole different issue).
    I cannot get across the country quickly and rarely without a minimum of 1 change even when linking major cities.

    I guess the question comes down to whether we see the success of London as the absolute overriding basis of most investment or whether building the northern powerhouse is also strategically important.

    For the record, I fully understand the importance of London to our economy but we can’t all work there. If you accept that, you have to facilitate success elsewhere.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,411
    Pross said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Jeremy.89 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    They should dig a tunnel as well, for when the bridge has to close because of the weather like the QE2 bridge the other day.

    Tunnel sounds more sensible and has some backing here:
    https://belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/forget-bridge-tunnel-best-way-to-link-northern-ireland-and-great-britain-say-experts-38836107.html

    Although I'm sure if we were having this debate 30 years ago, some people would be saying that a 20-odd mile tunnel under the sea is not feasible...

    You mean two years after construction had started? I don't think it's the technical possibility that is the real concern. Its the fact that the practicalities don't seem to stack up. You're looking at a massive detour compared to the most popular ferry routes, which will all require many miles of improved roads, through sparsely populated areas.

    Of course, I imagine the civil engineering consultancies are wetting themselves with excitement.
    Good to see the Cake Stop mentality is still alive and kicking ;)
    I work in the industry so would be more than happy for money to be thrown at it. I wouldn't be directly involved but giving the big boys something like that to play with keeps them away from smaller schemes that my company works on.

    I still think it's a ridiculous plan and the money would be better spent on improving the existing road and rail links to the ports. It's the equivalent of building the Channel Tunnel from Norfolk to northern Holland.
    If you consider the tunnel option it's not that far different in scope from the Channel Tunnel. It's a about the same length but deeper, although the Swiss managed to build the Gotthard Base Tunnel a few years back, which is 57km long and a max depth of 2,300m underground.

    The bigger question as you say is whether the money is better spent on other projects.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    ... like tax cuts?
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,411
    rick_chasey said:

    ... like tax cuts?

    But Rick, we've all bought into your genius economic theory that the country can borrow trillions of pounds more with no adverse effects, so surely it's a case of what other infrastructure projects to spend it on if not that one?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited February 2020
    Victory at last.


    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,411
    rick_chasey said:

    Victory at last.


    Is that you?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    I also work in the industry and my company are/will be benefiting from HS2 going forward.

    HS2 is all about capacity, but a lot of the talk has been about speed and cutting journey times - this is not where the real benefit lies. The cost however it ridiculous, mainly because they are obsessed with going to crazy high speeds that not other high speed rail is doing at the moment anywhere else in the world. This has meant that almost nothing can be bought "off the shelf" so to speak and everything has to be engineered to allow for 225-250mph, whereas TGV and new HS lines in china are 200mph or less. It's also silly not to go into New Street or Kings Cross to link up with other services. However, this could have also had a massive impact on cost.

    The bridge however is just fecking moronic. Who wants to drive up to Scotland in order to get to Ireland? Let alone then drive on a bridge that will have to be closed half the bloody year because the weather is too extreme?
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Stevo_666 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Victory at last.


    Is that you?
    Absolute stone cold classic - can't take any credit for that one

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEP1G6PcQO8
    _

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