BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

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  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,412
    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rick_chasey said:



    I feel quite strongly that the North has enormous potential to be a Flanders style economic success and that it has been badly let down by both national and local governance.

    Honest question here Rick - can you explain the 'Flanders style economic success' in relation to the North of England? I've never heard that phrase before.
    It's not a phrase. Flanders was once upon a time a poor relation to Walonia and now it is leaving it in its wake. It's not reliant one one big city, and a lot of its success was off the back of heavy infrastructure investment, both in terms of travel but also in the various ports which were having their lunch eaten by Rotterdam.

    I guess my point is that it's a region that used to have competitive advantages which were eroded away and through good state investment and governance it is now doing rather well.

    Got it. My have a word with our Belgian mob about that when I speak to them next.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,412
    Although other sources don't mention good state investment/governance. For example:
    https://brusselstimes.com/opinion/45009/how-economics-explains-belgium-s-rifts/
    This one mentions US investment, entrepreneurship and worker ethos in Flanders. Plus the decline of the traditional industries in Wallonia (which is comparable to historical issues in the North of England).

    Although it does mention that the Wallonians are fighting back quite well with tax breaks to attract corporate investment ;)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    edited February 2020
    Stevo_666 said:

    Although other sources don't mention good state investment/governance. For example:
    https://brusselstimes.com/opinion/45009/how-economics-explains-belgium-s-rifts/
    This one mentions US investment, entrepreneurship and worker ethos in Flanders. Plus the decline of the traditional industries in Wallonia (which is comparable to historical issues in the North of England).

    Although it does mention that the Wallonians are fighting back quite well with tax breaks to attract corporate investment ;)

    Foreign investment is often precipitated by some government initiative, no? The UK government didn't pay to redevelop the London Docklands, but did provide various incentives to encourage investors. Those incentives will have cost the government something. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,412
    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Although other sources don't mention good state investment/governance. For example:
    https://brusselstimes.com/opinion/45009/how-economics-explains-belgium-s-rifts/
    This one mentions US investment, entrepreneurship and worker ethos in Flanders. Plus the decline of the traditional industries in Wallonia (which is comparable to historical issues in the North of England).

    Although it does mention that the Wallonians are fighting back quite well with tax breaks to attract corporate investment ;)

    Foreign investment is often precipitated by some government initiative, no? The UK government didn't pay to redevelop the London Docklands, but did provide various incentives to encourage investors. Those incentives will have cost the government something. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
    Foreign investment is usually done by private enterprise. Govt can try to incentivise - or at least not get in the way, but its business that creates the wealth.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,412
    dodgy said:

    Twitter gold.

    Looks like freedom of movement isn't all its cracked up to be :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Although other sources don't mention good state investment/governance. For example:
    https://brusselstimes.com/opinion/45009/how-economics-explains-belgium-s-rifts/
    This one mentions US investment, entrepreneurship and worker ethos in Flanders. Plus the decline of the traditional industries in Wallonia (which is comparable to historical issues in the North of England).

    Although it does mention that the Wallonians are fighting back quite well with tax breaks to attract corporate investment ;)

    Foreign investment is often precipitated by some government initiative, no? The UK government didn't pay to redevelop the London Docklands, but did provide various incentives to encourage investors. Those incentives will have cost the government something. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
    Foreign investment is usually done by private enterprise. Govt can try to incentivise - or at least not get in the way, but its business that creates the wealth.
    I don't think I'm suggesting otherwise. Point is that the incentives cost money, at least to start with, obviously with the hope of a return on that investment, the same as all the private investors. One of the arguments about HS2 is whether it really will provide that return for the Treasury.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    Stevo_666 said:

    dodgy said:

    Twitter gold.

    Looks like freedom of movement isn't all its cracked up to be :)
    What are the chances that he's forgotten about the transition period and stood in the wrong queue?
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,412
    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    dodgy said:

    Twitter gold.

    Looks like freedom of movement isn't all its cracked up to be :)
    What are the chances that he's forgotten about the transition period and stood in the wrong queue?
    Either that, or the border service was shyte that day.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    dodgy said:

    Twitter gold.

    Looks like freedom of movement isn't all its cracked up to be :)
    What are the chances that he's forgotten about the transition period and stood in the wrong queue?
    My assumption was it's sarcasm that missed it's mark.
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    Pross said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    dodgy said:

    Twitter gold.

    Looks like freedom of movement isn't all its cracked up to be :)
    What are the chances that he's forgotten about the transition period and stood in the wrong queue?
    My assumption was it's sarcasm that missed it's mark.
    No, just another gammon
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Pross said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    dodgy said:

    Twitter gold.

    Looks like freedom of movement isn't all its cracked up to be :)
    What are the chances that he's forgotten about the transition period and stood in the wrong queue?
    My assumption was it's sarcasm that missed it's mark.
    Try out the rest of his feed.


    Though if you look closely he’s in the automated queue so nada to do with Brexit.

    It is funny though.
    _
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    Stevo_666 said:

    dodgy said:

    Twitter gold.

    Looks like freedom of movement isn't all its cracked up to be :)
    Another mug falls for the parody Twitter account.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,412
    thegreatdivide said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    dodgy said:

    Twitter gold.

    Looks like freedom of movement isn't all its cracked up to be :)
    Another mug falls for the parody Twitter account.
    Did you think I was being serious? :) No centre leftie smartarse points for you again.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    Followed by the 'I didn't think it was real' reply that every other mug has used when they've been told it's fake.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,412
    thegreatdivide said:

    Followed by the 'I didn't think it was real' reply that every other mug has used when they've been told it's fake.

    Tbh I didn't care whether it was or not when I posted before. However looks like the jury is out on whether it's a spoof, so still no points for you. Better luck next time you come out from under your bridge ;)

    https://independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-eu-airport-queue-immigration-brexiteer-amsterdam-airport-schiphol-a9335281.html
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,412
    Looks like the EU is missing the UK's contributions already...
    https://theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/16/stressed-heads-to-start-brussels-budget-talks-post-brexit
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    I think a disintegrating EU would only be good for the UK on a comparative basis.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Has anyone got any stats on what proportion the UK's net contribution was to the EU budget?
    _
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/articles/theukcontributiontotheeubudget/2017-10-31

    EU budget for 2017: https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/eu-budget/expenditure_en

    Depends how you want to calculate it.
    15.5bn out of 157.9bn based on the budget with the UK in = 10%
    Or 7.8bn out of 150.2bn (both sides net of what was spent on the UK). About 5%. This feels fairer as that is what will be missing.

    My back of envelope calculations could be missing something vital.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited February 2020
    So roughly 1/20 Euros?

    With 95% remaining?
    _
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    12% according to this.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/316691/european-union-eu-budget-share-of-contributions/
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    That site doesn't load on my machine; does it take the rebate and uk eligiability of funding into account?
    _
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    No that's just raw contribution.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    So it 2015 the total EU budget was €141.3 billion, and the UK net contribution was c.€11.5bn, depending on exchange rate fluctuations, which is roughly 8%.
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,412
    The article I quoted referred to €75bn (62bn) over 7 years.

    Regardless of what the number was, it looks like the other 27 aren't very keen at all to chip in and make up the shortfall. Maybe they should encourage Poland and Hungary to leave, as that would cover it.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    Let's see what the real figures look like rather than those who are trying to dilute them

    There are 9 countries that are net contributors to the EU budget.

    Total from net contributors is £52.2bn of which the UK contributed £9.77bn (18.7%)

    So there is an 18.7% hole in their yearly budget going forward. This is the real impact the EU faces

    Source: https://www.statista.com/chart/18794/net-contributors-to-eu-budget/
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Stevo_666 said:

    The article I quoted referred to €75bn (62bn) over 7 years.

    Regardless of what the number was, it looks like the other 27 aren't very keen at all to chip in and make up the shortfall. Maybe they should encourage Poland and Hungary to leave, as that would cover it.

    The proportion is materially relevant to the challenge they have, for obvious reasons.
    _
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    Stevo_666 said:

    The article I quoted referred to €75bn (62bn) over 7 years.

    Regardless of what the number was, it looks like the other 27 aren't very keen at all to chip in and make up the shortfall. Maybe they should encourage Poland and Hungary to leave, as that would cover it.

    To be fair there are squabbles about the EU budget every time it is discussed; us leaving has just made things a bit more sharp-edged. It's an opportunity for France and Germany to apply some pressure to the Polish and Hungarian cakeists.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    Honestly, £10 billion a year isn't a lot.

    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    coopster_the_1st said:

    Let's see what the real figures look like rather than those who are trying to dilute them

    There are 9 countries that are net contributors to the EU budget.

    Total from net contributors is £52.2bn of which the UK contributed £9.77bn (18.7%)

    So there is an 18.7% hole in their yearly budget going forward. This is the real impact the EU faces

    Source: https://www.statista.com/chart/18794/net-contributors-to-eu-budget/

    I mean it clearly isn't an 18.7% hole in their budget, it's an 18.7% reduction in net contributions but point taken, it's substantial.

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