BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Oops. Another of the big lies has been admitted. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/checks-on-eu-bound-goods-inevitable-gove-tells-business-leaders

Build the wall. Oh, and a bridge, to divert the attention from the wall.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/boris-johnson-northern-ireland-scotland-bridge-plan-being-actively-looked-into-no-10

A bit like the checks on all inbound non-EU goods that we already have? Those work quite well and we're just levelling the playing field globally.

As for the bridge, well isn't that infrastructure investment, which should be a good thing?

The garden bridge is more likely to happen.

If the chairman of the country's leading customs clearance software supplier is not impressed with Gove's comments, I would suggest that it isn't just levelling the playing field.

No harm in assessimg whether its feasible. Varadkar thinks its worth looking at and he's always right isn't he?

Stevo_666

darkhairedlord said:

rick_chasey said:

On the bridge - I posted it when it was last mentioned - all experts agree it is an impossible build.

It will open just in time for independent scotland to trade with a United Ireland. Call it a parting gift...

We could keep ownership of the bridge and charge them a toll if they leave, just to p!ss them off

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Oops. Another of the big lies has been admitted. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/checks-on-eu-bound-goods-inevitable-gove-tells-business-leaders

Build the wall. Oh, and a bridge, to divert the attention from the wall.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/boris-johnson-northern-ireland-scotland-bridge-plan-being-actively-looked-into-no-10

A bit like the checks on all inbound non-EU goods that we already have? Those work quite well and we're just levelling the playing field globally.

As for the bridge, well isn't that infrastructure investment, which should be a good thing?

The garden bridge is more likely to happen.

If the chairman of the country's leading customs clearance software supplier is not impressed with Gove's comments, I would suggest that it isn't just levelling the playing field.

No harm in assessimg whether its feasible. Varadkar thinks its worth looking at and he's always right isn't he?

Various people already have. The Irish Sea is up to 300m deep. Current deepest bridge pier is the Bay Bridge in San Francisco at less than a quarter of that depth. And the route would run through an area used as a massive munitions dump by the MOD.

As has been tweeted

Should keep a couple of graduates & a year out student at Arup busy for a couple of months.

thecycleclinic

Sinn Fein have won in the ROI so they are making it clear they will be pushing for the EU to make a reunification poll conditional on a trade deal. At least that what they were saying today. If they get there way an britian is losing its sway in the world (chagos islands)another eu hasrummored it might back spain in there claims over Gibraltar then how will the uk hold it together.

This is how the Russians must have felt when there country disintergrated in the 90's.the thing is brexit voters dont seem to care. Why is it we have got to the point that the integrity of the u.k is no longer important to the voters that matter in our electoral system.

Of course the answer is a bridge.

The simple fact that england 55 million people dominate the poltics of the uk even though the uk is four nations three of which have there own parliaments is the problem.

Yet all that everyone is concerned with is trade deals. While they are important the risk of the union falling apart does not seem to that high on the agenda. Last year all the fear from the opposition about brexit was mostly about avoiding no deal I.e losing money not the uk falling apart.

Back to being fed up again. It would nice for a year just a year for the country to feel like it no on the fucking edge and for it's people to give it shit about its continued existence.

surrey_commuter

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Oops. Another of the big lies has been admitted. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/checks-on-eu-bound-goods-inevitable-gove-tells-business-leaders

Build the wall. Oh, and a bridge, to divert the attention from the wall.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/boris-johnson-northern-ireland-scotland-bridge-plan-being-actively-looked-into-no-10

A bit like the checks on all inbound non-EU goods that we already have? Those work quite well and we're just levelling the playing field globally.

As for the bridge, well isn't that infrastructure investment, which should be a good thing?

I'm assuming you're not denying it was a big lie then. And you seem to be saying that making trading harder with your closest neighbour is a good idea, as that comes under 'levelling the playing field'.

As for the bridge... it would be quite nice if they could get the railway line to SW England a bit more reliable first. Though it wouldn't be quite such a big shiny thing to grab the headlines.

I don't recall anyone saying there would be no checks whatsoever. Any form of Brexit would require some degree of checks. But these really aren't onerous - there are no significant delays clearing non-EU goods through customs, we do it every day.

In any event it's less of a lie than pointlessly chanting something about building a wall.

Google it - in the referendum we were promised friction free trade, this is why all the media are reporting it as “Gove confesses”

If you search back you were insistent that the German car makers would ensure this outcome.

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Oops. Another of the big lies has been admitted. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/checks-on-eu-bound-goods-inevitable-gove-tells-business-leaders

Build the wall. Oh, and a bridge, to divert the attention from the wall.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/boris-johnson-northern-ireland-scotland-bridge-plan-being-actively-looked-into-no-10

A bit like the checks on all inbound non-EU goods that we already have? Those work quite well and we're just levelling the playing field globally.

As for the bridge, well isn't that infrastructure investment, which should be a good thing?

I'm assuming you're not denying it was a big lie then. And you seem to be saying that making trading harder with your closest neighbour is a good idea, as that comes under 'levelling the playing field'.

As for the bridge... it would be quite nice if they could get the railway line to SW England a bit more reliable first. Though it wouldn't be quite such a big shiny thing to grab the headlines.

I don't recall anyone saying there would be no checks whatsoever. Any form of Brexit would require some degree of checks. But these really aren't onerous - there are no significant delays clearing non-EU goods through customs, we do it every day.

In any event it's less of a lie than pointlessly chanting something about building a wall.

IIRC, your business doesn't have anything to do with food or products of animal origin. Possibly you don't have the full picture.

Maybe Jr will be drafted straight into veterinary checks at the ports or visiting abattoirs, as there are already staffing shortages. And what with the new income threshold and veterinary salaries being not all that, we've lost a lot of the EU vets who made up the numbers.

rick_chasey

At least the City boy Javid is pushing for permanent regulatory equivalence for FS, though EU has a habit of pulling that to put pressure on its trading partners (Switzerland), so it'd be nice if they negotiated a notice period that was longer than 30 days for that.

rick_chasey

Then again, people who know about it are sceptical it'll happen...

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

At least the City boy Javid is pushing for permanent regulatory equivalence for FS, though EU has a habit of pulling that to put pressure on its trading partners (Switzerland), so it'd be nice if they negotiated a notice period that was longer than 30 days for that.

30 days seems almost worse than useless, you would have to permanently be on standby to act within 30 days

rick_chasey

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

At least the City boy Javid is pushing for permanent regulatory equivalence for FS, though EU has a habit of pulling that to put pressure on its trading partners (Switzerland), so it'd be nice if they negotiated a notice period that was longer than 30 days for that.

30 days seems almost worse than useless, you would have to permanently be on standby to act within 30 days

Correct - that is the current agreement EU has with Switzerland - and they used it too.

Barnier's come out fairly clear - no open ended FS equivalence. Well that lasted all of 5 hours.

It seems they are applying the logic, which seems to make sense to me, that the level of access to the market is directly proportional with the level of alignment.

Who knew.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

At least the City boy Javid is pushing for permanent regulatory equivalence for FS, though EU has a habit of pulling that to put pressure on its trading partners (Switzerland), so it'd be nice if they negotiated a notice period that was longer than 30 days for that.

It didn't work out that well for the EU though in the short term when they did that with Switzerland.

I think I read somewhere that they have drawn up a list of critical financial services which won't be blocked as it would be hard on the EU, so petty games are strictly limited to the non-critical services assuming that the UK isn't petty enough to block those in retaliation.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

At least the City boy Javid is pushing for permanent regulatory equivalence for FS, though EU has a habit of pulling that to put pressure on its trading partners (Switzerland), so it'd be nice if they negotiated a notice period that was longer than 30 days for that.

It didn't work out that well for the EU though in the short term when they did that with Switzerland.

I understand it was used as part of leverage of the wider negs.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

At least the City boy Javid is pushing for permanent regulatory equivalence for FS, though EU has a habit of pulling that to put pressure on its trading partners (Switzerland), so it'd be nice if they negotiated a notice period that was longer than 30 days for that.

30 days seems almost worse than useless, you would have to permanently be on standby to act within 30 days

Correct - that is the current agreement EU has with Switzerland - and they used it too.

Barnier's come out fairly clear - no open ended FS equivalence. Well that lasted all of 5 hours.

It seems they are applying the logic, which seems to make sense to me, that the level of access to the market is directly proportional with the level of alignment.

Who knew.

As we are the far larger financial market, you could just as easily be talking about EU alignment with UK rules to get market access.

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Oops. Another of the big lies has been admitted. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/checks-on-eu-bound-goods-inevitable-gove-tells-business-leaders

Build the wall. Oh, and a bridge, to divert the attention from the wall.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/boris-johnson-northern-ireland-scotland-bridge-plan-being-actively-looked-into-no-10

A bit like the checks on all inbound non-EU goods that we already have? Those work quite well and we're just levelling the playing field globally.

As for the bridge, well isn't that infrastructure investment, which should be a good thing?

The garden bridge is more likely to happen.

If the chairman of the country's leading customs clearance software supplier is not impressed with Gove's comments, I would suggest that it isn't just levelling the playing field.

No harm in assessimg whether its feasible. Varadkar thinks its worth looking at and he's always right isn't he?

Various people already have. The Irish Sea is up to 300m deep. Current deepest bridge pier is the Bay Bridge in San Francisco at less than a quarter of that depth. And the route would run through an area used as a massive munitions dump by the MOD.

As has been tweeted

Should keep a couple of graduates & a year out student at Arup busy for a couple of months.

Exactly, won't take much time or effort. No point giving up on everything that looks difficult before you've even started.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

At least the City boy Javid is pushing for permanent regulatory equivalence for FS, though EU has a habit of pulling that to put pressure on its trading partners (Switzerland), so it'd be nice if they negotiated a notice period that was longer than 30 days for that.

It didn't work out that well for the EU though in the short term when they did that with Switzerland.

I understand it was used as part of leverage of the wider negs.

Yes. Depending on what you read it either had no impact or resulted in increased business for Swiss stock exchanges. That's the short term impact.

It's fairly petty though to withdraw financial equivalence because the EU would like to speed up the negotiation of a new largely unrelated treaty.

I thought that, having misunderstood financial services on this occasion, that the EU commission was going for a new strategy with the UK.

https://bruegel.org/2019/07/the-consequences-of-switzerlands-lost-equivalence-status/

Stevo_666

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Oops. Another of the big lies has been admitted. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/checks-on-eu-bound-goods-inevitable-gove-tells-business-leaders

Build the wall. Oh, and a bridge, to divert the attention from the wall.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/boris-johnson-northern-ireland-scotland-bridge-plan-being-actively-looked-into-no-10

A bit like the checks on all inbound non-EU goods that we already have? Those work quite well and we're just levelling the playing field globally.

As for the bridge, well isn't that infrastructure investment, which should be a good thing?

I'm assuming you're not denying it was a big lie then. And you seem to be saying that making trading harder with your closest neighbour is a good idea, as that comes under 'levelling the playing field'.

As for the bridge... it would be quite nice if they could get the railway line to SW England a bit more reliable first. Though it wouldn't be quite such a big shiny thing to grab the headlines.

I don't recall anyone saying there would be no checks whatsoever. Any form of Brexit would require some degree of checks. But these really aren't onerous - there are no significant delays clearing non-EU goods through customs, we do it every day.

In any event it's less of a lie than pointlessly chanting something about building a wall.

Google it - in the referendum we were promised friction free trade, this is why all the media are reporting it as “Gove confesses”

If you search back you were insistent that the German car makers would ensure this outcome.

Go on then, quote me.

Stevo_666

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

At least the City boy Javid is pushing for permanent regulatory equivalence for FS, though EU has a habit of pulling that to put pressure on its trading partners (Switzerland), so it'd be nice if they negotiated a notice period that was longer than 30 days for that.

It didn't work out that well for the EU though in the short term when they did that with Switzerland.

I think I read somewhere that they have drawn up a list of critical financial services which won't be blocked as it would be hard on the EU, so petty games are strictly limited to the non-critical services assuming that the UK isn't petty enough to block those in retaliation.

And we have more leverage than Switzerland given the size of our financial sector and the EU need to retain access.

TheBigBean

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Oops. Another of the big lies has been admitted. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/checks-on-eu-bound-goods-inevitable-gove-tells-business-leaders

Build the wall. Oh, and a bridge, to divert the attention from the wall.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/boris-johnson-northern-ireland-scotland-bridge-plan-being-actively-looked-into-no-10

A bit like the checks on all inbound non-EU goods that we already have? Those work quite well and we're just levelling the playing field globally.

As for the bridge, well isn't that infrastructure investment, which should be a good thing?

The garden bridge is more likely to happen.

If the chairman of the country's leading customs clearance software supplier is not impressed with Gove's comments, I would suggest that it isn't just levelling the playing field.

No harm in assessimg whether its feasible. Varadkar thinks its worth looking at and he's always right isn't he?

Various people already have. The Irish Sea is up to 300m deep. Current deepest bridge pier is the Bay Bridge in San Francisco at less than a quarter of that depth. And the route would run through an area used as a massive munitions dump by the MOD.

As has been tweeted

Should keep a couple of graduates & a year out student at Arup busy for a couple of months.

I went to China in the late 90s. The Chinese government was quite obsessed about building a railway to Tibet at the time. They had brought in the finest engineers in the world from Switzerland who had all said that it was simply impossible to build a railway to Tibet.

The Qinghai-Tibet line opened in 2006.

I am not saying it is a good idea or likely to be value for money, but it is probably possible.

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Oops. Another of the big lies has been admitted. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/checks-on-eu-bound-goods-inevitable-gove-tells-business-leaders

Build the wall. Oh, and a bridge, to divert the attention from the wall.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/boris-johnson-northern-ireland-scotland-bridge-plan-being-actively-looked-into-no-10

A bit like the checks on all inbound non-EU goods that we already have? Those work quite well and we're just levelling the playing field globally.

As for the bridge, well isn't that infrastructure investment, which should be a good thing?

I'm assuming you're not denying it was a big lie then. And you seem to be saying that making trading harder with your closest neighbour is a good idea, as that comes under 'levelling the playing field'.

As for the bridge... it would be quite nice if they could get the railway line to SW England a bit more reliable first. Though it wouldn't be quite such a big shiny thing to grab the headlines.

I don't recall anyone saying there would be no checks whatsoever. Any form of Brexit would require some degree of checks. But these really aren't onerous - there are no significant delays clearing non-EU goods through customs, we do it every day.

In any event it's less of a lie than pointlessly chanting something about building a wall.

Google it - in the referendum we were promised friction free trade, this is why all the media are reporting it as “Gove confesses”

If you search back you were insistent that the German car makers would ensure this outcome.

Go on then, quote me.

rick_chasey

It's not just depth, but the weather and the fact there's an unknown (but large) dump of arms there too.

rjsterry

10 minutes of reading would tell you it's a silly idea. The word 'spaffing' springs to mind for some reason.

rick_chasey

From the sunday times when it was originally floated

TheBigBean

rjsterry said:

10 minutes of reading would tell you it's a silly idea. The word 'spaffing' springs to mind for some reason.

That is about my level of commitment. This article is quite balanced and points out some of the difficulties.

https://www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/science-and-technology/2019/09/bridge-between-scotland-and-northern-ireland-what-would-it-be

Naeem Hussain is global bridge design leader at design and engineering firm Arup. He has worked on some of the most challenging sea bridges on the planet. As well as Oresund and Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Macau, these include the Temburong Bridge in Brunei, the Mumbai Trans Harbour Link in India and Stonecutters Bridge in Hong Kong. He even has experience in Scotland with the Queensferry Crossing over the Firth of Forth. He agrees a Portpatrick-Larne bridge is “entirely practical and doable”, but to make it worthwhile, the roads on the Scottish side would need to be upgraded.

Longshot

rick_chasey said:

From the sunday times when it was originally floated

"No sane contractor or responsible government"

kingstongraham

They should dig a tunnel as well, for when the bridge has to close because of the weather like the QE2 bridge the other day.

morstar

Longshot said:

rick_chasey said:

From the sunday times when it was originally floated

"No sane contractor or responsible government"

Can you imagine the movement on those 1,000 ft supports?

Crikey, it would snake like a nightmare.

Longshot

morstar said:

Longshot said:

rick_chasey said:

From the sunday times when it was originally floated

"No sane contractor or responsible government"

Can you imagine the movement on those 1,000 ft supports?

Crikey, it would snake like a nightmare.

Sounds like a Government.

Pross

The other issue with the bridge is that it wouldn't be a particularly useful piece of infrastructure for the vast majority of the UK due to the road journey, at present the Larne to Cairnryan ferry route is relatively short and quick but is relatively lightly used due to the poor road links at the UK side. I suspect most trade would continue by sea into the likes of Holyhead due to favourable road links. There must be hundreds or thousands of transport infrastructure schemes that would provide a greater cost / benefit result than this bridge including upgrading road and rail freight links to the Irish sea ports but we've seen before how Boris has no idea on these matters (airport suggestion, garden bridge).

Jeremy.89

I don't really feel like saying the technology exists for oil rigs therefore it maps over to bridges really checks out. The difference in acceptable level of risk, and expected lifetime between a bridge and a rig is surely quite high?

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

10 minutes of reading would tell you it's a silly idea. The word 'spaffing' springs to mind for some reason.

That is about my level of commitment. This article is quite balanced and points out some of the difficulties.

https://www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/science-and-technology/2019/09/bridge-between-scotland-and-northern-ireland-what-would-it-be

Naeem Hussain is global bridge design leader at design and engineering firm Arup. He has worked on some of the most challenging sea bridges on the planet. As well as Oresund and Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Macau, these include the Temburong Bridge in Brunei, the Mumbai Trans Harbour Link in India and Stonecutters Bridge in Hong Kong. He even has experience in Scotland with the Queensferry Crossing over the Firth of Forth. He agrees a Portpatrick-Larne bridge is “entirely practical and doable”, but to make it worthwhile, the roads on the Scottish side would need to be upgraded.

In fairness, the feasibility study these guys could get roped in for is decent business, even if it isn't built.

You think I've never offered a review of the talent pool for a fee to establish what we all already know, that there is no-one good worth hiring? Clients love it, as it covers their arse, and they can say they did something about it and showed willing, instead of being cast as a negative norman, despite the outcome being worse.