BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

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  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,408
    rick_chasey said:

    Ah that’s one debate I steer well clear of.

    I thought you would have had a pretty strong view on the 'Black Peter' issue :o
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Nah, I really see both sides and i find it hard to have a view.

    Have to remember although in the UK every year all the Dutch kids got together for Sinterklaas so I still grew up with it.

    FWIW the 'rainbow pete' is the only decent compromise I've heard.
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,408
    rick_chasey said:

    Nah, I really see both sides and i find it hard to have a view.

    Have to remember although in the UK every year all the Dutch kids got together for Sinterklaas so I still grew up with it.

    FWIW the 'rainbow pete' is the only decent compromise I've heard.

    I am genuinely surprised by what you say. If that NL equivalent of 'Top of the Pops' was shown in the UK with a bunch of people dancing and singing around with blacked out faces there would be absolute outrage (and it got to number 1 in Holland ?!)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Sure but the context is entirely different, which I think to his credit, Balls made fairly clear.

    What I thought was interesting was comparing and contrasting how the radio discussion was held vs how political and cultural discussions are typically held in the UK.
    _
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    A possible Brexit positve - farm payments linked to environmental improvement.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/united-kingdom-embark-agricultural-revolution-break-eu-farm-subsidies
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    TheBigBean said:

    A possible Brexit positve - farm payments linked to environmental improvement.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/united-kingdom-embark-agricultural-revolution-break-eu-farm-subsidies

    my objection to CAP is the govt interfering in the market, I am not sure this counts as positive. The goal may be positive but it will be undermined by seven years of meddling in the implementation and then ruined by gaming and unintended consequences.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    tailwindhome said:

    it is very bizarre that he lies about the contents of a legal agreement that he produced.

    Is it possible that he has no idea what the truth is or does he just have utter contempt for his audience?
  • haydenm
    haydenm Posts: 2,997
    surrey_commuter said:

    TheBigBean said:

    A possible Brexit positve - farm payments linked to environmental improvement.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/united-kingdom-embark-agricultural-revolution-break-eu-farm-subsidies

    my objection to CAP is the govt interfering in the market, I am not sure this counts as positive. The goal may be positive but it will be undermined by seven years of meddling in the implementation and then ruined by gaming and unintended consequences.
    Same here. My concern with the new plan is that 'environmental benefits' are hard to define, partially subjective and often focus on minutiae localised issues rather than having any noticeable impact. This is a bone of contention within forestry at least.

  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    Looking at how the US has dealt with the Sacoolas extradition request does anyone still think they'll look to give us good terms in any trade discussions? They don't appear to see see us anything close to equals politically.
  • haydenm
    haydenm Posts: 2,997
    Reckon they'd let us become a US state now?
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Pross said:

    Looking at how the US has dealt with the Sacoolas extradition request does anyone still think they'll look to give us good terms in any trade discussions? They don't appear to see see us anything close to equals politically.

    it baffles me that anybody would think otherwise, proportion wise it would be like us seeing the Phillippines as an equal.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,328
    Pross said:

    Looking at how the US has dealt with the Sacoolas extradition request does anyone still think they'll look to give us good terms in any trade discussions? They don't appear to see see us anything close to equals politically.

    I've always been of the opinion that US extradition is a one way street, but getting to your point; not cat's chance in hell. A good deal for Trump, a great deal, will be sh!t for the UK.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    surrey_commuter said:

    tailwindhome said:

    it is very bizarre that he lies about the contents of a legal agreement that he produced.

    Is it possible that he has no idea what the truth is or does he just have utter contempt for his audience?
    Pretty obvious it's the latter, or possibly gambling that not enough people on this side of the Irish Sea care
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited January 2020
    Not so much a gambit as a fairly safe assumption.

    Englanders don't care about the rest of the UK, other than some faint sentimentality.
    _
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    pblakeney said:

    Pross said:

    Looking at how the US has dealt with the Sacoolas extradition request does anyone still think they'll look to give us good terms in any trade discussions? They don't appear to see see us anything close to equals politically.

    I've always been of the opinion that US extradition is a one way street, but getting to your point; not cat's chance in hell. A good deal for Trump, a great deal, will be sh!t for the UK.
    Apparently this is the first time the US has ever refused an extradition request from us which surprised me as from previous media reporting I felt the same. The fact that they already stated they wouldn't send her back before a request had been sent was telling though. I quite often feel that they're requests are quite spurious as to whether the alleged crime falls under their jurisdiction and that there will be a fair trail though.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    rick_chasey said:

    Not so much a gambit as a fairly safe assumption.

    Englanders don't care about the rest of the UK, other than some faint sentimentality.

    It's not as though it's the only lie, though.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited January 2020
    Sure, but, again, I don't think there are many people out there who believe Johnson regularly tells the truth, yet he had one of the best performances in an election, so I don't think people in England care very much about that either.

    _
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,328
    rick_chasey said:

    Sure, but, again, I don't think there are many people out there who believe Johnson regularly tells the truth, yet he had one of the best performances in an election, so I don't think people in England care very much about that either.

    As long as "it's getting done" they don't care about how, or even what "it" is.
    Until "it" bites them.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    Disturbing thread from Peter Foster, both for those who didn't vote Conservative and those who think that they are a safe bet economically.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1220732639235264512

    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    rjsterry said:

    Disturbing thread from Peter Foster, both for those who didn't vote Conservative and those who think that they are a safe bet economically.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1220732639235264512

    So many holes in his argument. Only looks at the downside of the sterling correction and intentionally ignores any of the upside

    His point becomes laughable when he states the car industry is not in secular decline when the industry based on the ICE is exactly that.

    I'm not sure what he'll add by writing for the FT apart from more anti-Brexit bias.
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,227
    Christ that was quick. I was going to say there would be a botster along soon to contra-argue. Is almost as if there's an algorithm in play.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    coopster_the_1st said:

    rjsterry said:

    Disturbing thread from Peter Foster, both for those who didn't vote Conservative and those who think that they are a safe bet economically.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1220732639235264512

    So many holes in his argument. Only looks at the downside of the sterling correction and intentionally ignores any of the upside

    His point becomes laughable when he states the car industry is not in secular decline when the industry based on the ICE is exactly that.

    I'm not sure what he'll add by writing for the FT apart from more anti-Brexit bias.
    Just re-read it twice to check. Nowhere does he state or otherwise imply that the motor industry isn't in secular decline. His point is that it is, but this has had no political impact in areas where the motor industry is a major employer. Hence a "de-coupling" of economics and politics. Not sure you've understood what Foster wrote.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    rjsterry said:

    coopster_the_1st said:

    rjsterry said:

    Disturbing thread from Peter Foster, both for those who didn't vote Conservative and those who think that they are a safe bet economically.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1220732639235264512

    So many holes in his argument. Only looks at the downside of the sterling correction and intentionally ignores any of the upside

    His point becomes laughable when he states the car industry is not in secular decline when the industry based on the ICE is exactly that.

    I'm not sure what he'll add by writing for the FT apart from more anti-Brexit bias.
    Just re-read it twice to check. Nowhere does he state or otherwise imply that the motor industry isn't in secular decline. His point is that it is, but this has had no political impact in areas where the motor industry is a major employer. Hence a "de-coupling" of economics and politics. Not sure you've understood what Foster wrote.
    Tweet 7 of the chain. You would not use this example if he knew what he was talking about.

    He is still backing the 'economists were correct on Brexit' when the credibility of economists in the eyes of the public is as low as it has even been. Whitehall knows this and the economists only have themselves to blame for making themselves almost obsolete.

    As I said, so many holes in his argument.

    It is simply a disguised rant at Brexit and the Boris 80 MP majority govt.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    edited January 2020
    ...
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    coopster_the_1st said:

    rjsterry said:

    coopster_the_1st said:

    rjsterry said:

    Disturbing thread from Peter Foster, both for those who didn't vote Conservative and those who think that they are a safe bet economically.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1220732639235264512

    So many holes in his argument. Only looks at the downside of the sterling correction and intentionally ignores any of the upside

    His point becomes laughable when he states the car industry is not in secular decline when the industry based on the ICE is exactly that.

    I'm not sure what he'll add by writing for the FT apart from more anti-Brexit bias.
    Just re-read it twice to check. Nowhere does he state or otherwise imply that the motor industry isn't in secular decline. His point is that it is, but this has had no political impact in areas where the motor industry is a major employer. Hence a "de-coupling" of economics and politics. Not sure you've understood what Foster wrote.
    Tweet 7 of the chain. You would not use this example if he knew what he was talking about.

    He is still backing the 'economists were correct on Brexit' when the credibility of economists in the eyes of the public is as low as it has even been. Whitehall knows this and the economists only have themselves to blame for making themselves almost obsolete.

    As I said, so many holes in his argument.

    It is simply a disguised rant at Brexit and the Boris 80 MP majority govt.
    If you were the target audience I am sure he would have written it differently, therefore can we agree that your inability to understand his point is neither of yours fault.

  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    edited January 2020
    coopster_the_1st said:

    rjsterry said:

    coopster_the_1st said:

    rjsterry said:

    Disturbing thread from Peter Foster, both for those who didn't vote Conservative and those who think that they are a safe bet economically.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1220732639235264512

    So many holes in his argument. Only looks at the downside of the sterling correction and intentionally ignores any of the upside

    His point becomes laughable when he states the car industry is not in secular decline when the industry based on the ICE is exactly that.

    I'm not sure what he'll add by writing for the FT apart from more anti-Brexit bias.
    Just re-read it twice to check. Nowhere does he state or otherwise imply that the motor industry isn't in secular decline. His point is that it is, but this has had no political impact in areas where the motor industry is a major employer. Hence a "de-coupling" of economics and politics. Not sure you've understood what Foster wrote.
    Tweet 7 of the chain. You would not use this example if he knew what he was talking about.

    He is still backing the 'economists were correct on Brexit' when the credibility of economists in the eyes of the public is as low as it has even been. Whitehall knows this and the economists only have themselves to blame for making themselves almost obsolete.

    As I said, so many holes in his argument.

    It is simply a disguised rant at Brexit and the Boris 80 MP majority govt.
    As we contemplate the coming EU-UK trade negotation, we have cabinet ministers airily waving away the concerns of industry, blithely declaring that sectors like cars and chemicals are in "secular decline"


    Read it again. He is not denying that the UK motor industry is in decline. Quite the opposite in fact.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Have you not worked out yet that Coopster has at best a very loose understanding of what words mean?
    _
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    It's always worth talking.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,328
    Only if someone is listening.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.

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