BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

rjsterry

I live in hope.

rick_chasey

Denial

Stevo_666

To be fair the whole motor industry has a series of major challenges and Brexit is only one of them. Many of these are structural and global in nature. Do a quick search on German motor industry problems, for example.

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

To be fair the whole motor industry has a series of major challenges and Brexit is only one of them. Many of these are structural and global in nature. Do a quick search on German motor industry problems, for example.

Of course. I think the SMMT's position is "things are pretty difficult already, so let's not make it any more difficult than necessary".

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

To be fair the whole motor industry has a series of major challenges and Brexit is only one of them. Many of these are structural and global in nature. Do a quick search on German motor industry problems, for example.

Of course. I think the SMMT's position is "things are pretty difficult already, so let's not make it any more difficult than necessary".

Understandable.

Ironically, one of the current major challenges for motor manufacturers is meeting strict new EU emissions regs...

Jeremy.89

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

To be fair the whole motor industry has a series of major challenges and Brexit is only one of them. Many of these are structural and global in nature. Do a quick search on German motor industry problems, for example.

Of course. I think the SMMT's position is "things are pretty difficult already, so let's not make it any more difficult than necessary".

Understandable.

Ironically, one of the current major challenges for motor manufacturers is meeting strict new EU emissions regs...

Ironic but not really relevant.

UK manufacturers still have to meet those regs if they want to sell to the EU, and even if the UK decided on lighter regulations, the reality is that our market size probably means few manufacturers would go out of their way to produce especially dirty cars for us.

Stevo_666

Jeremy.89 said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

To be fair the whole motor industry has a series of major challenges and Brexit is only one of them. Many of these are structural and global in nature. Do a quick search on German motor industry problems, for example.

Of course. I think the SMMT's position is "things are pretty difficult already, so let's not make it any more difficult than necessary".

Understandable.

Ironically, one of the current major challenges for motor manufacturers is meeting strict new EU emissions regs...

Ironic but not really relevant.

UK manufacturers still have to meet those regs if they want to sell to the EU, and even if the UK decided on lighter regulations, the reality is that our market size probably means few manufacturers would go out of their way to produce especially dirty cars for us.

In terms of challenges for the auto industry, it is very relevant
https://bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-26/europe-s-tough-new-emissions-rules-come-with-39-billion-threat

You're right that Brexit won't solve it, but the challenge has been created by the EU.

surrey_commuter

Jeremy.89 said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

To be fair the whole motor industry has a series of major challenges and Brexit is only one of them. Many of these are structural and global in nature. Do a quick search on German motor industry problems, for example.

Of course. I think the SMMT's position is "things are pretty difficult already, so let's not make it any more difficult than necessary".

Understandable.

Ironically, one of the current major challenges for motor manufacturers is meeting strict new EU emissions regs...

Ironic but not really relevant.

UK manufacturers still have to meet those regs if they want to sell to the EU, and even if the UK decided on lighter regulations, the reality is that our market size probably means few manufacturers would go out of their way to produce especially dirty cars for us.

Many believe that EU standards/regulations are effectively world standards/regulations as it is such an important market and you will meet (and surpass) everybody else’s rules.

Would be no surprise if the clown prince took back control and used it to align with the EU whilst boasting that it is his choice to wild cheers from the hordes.

Stevo_666

surrey_commuter said:

Many believe that EU standards/regulations are effectively world standards/regulations

Why do they think that?

Is there evidence to support that view, or is just a perception because it is the EU and so they must be the best?

rjsterry

Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.

It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.

It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.

Globally its a fact that there are different standards and will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.

Jeremy.89

Stevo_666 said:

Jeremy.89 said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

To be fair the whole motor industry has a series of major challenges and Brexit is only one of them. Many of these are structural and global in nature. Do a quick search on German motor industry problems, for example.

Of course. I think the SMMT's position is "things are pretty difficult already, so let's not make it any more difficult than necessary".

Understandable.

Ironically, one of the current major challenges for motor manufacturers is meeting strict new EU emissions regs...

Ironic but not really relevant.

UK manufacturers still have to meet those regs if they want to sell to the EU, and even if the UK decided on lighter regulations, the reality is that our market size probably means few manufacturers would go out of their way to produce especially dirty cars for us.

In terms of challenges for the auto industry, it is very relevant
https://bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-26/europe-s-tough-new-emissions-rules-come-with-39-billion-threat

You're right that Brexit won't solve it, but the challenge has been created by the EU.

It's not relevant in terms of leaving the EU though.

Funnily enough, California managed to set the defacto USA standard for auto emissions despite being "only" 15% of US gdp...

briantrumpet

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.

It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.

Globally its a fact that there are different standards and will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.

Can you just remind us what % of global GDP the UK will be by this time next week?

Stevo_666

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.

It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.

Globally its a fact that there are different standards and will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.

Can you just remind us what % of global GDP the UK will be by this time next week?

Exactly the percentage as now

But we're not claiming that everyone copies us on the standards front. As ever, just putting things into a global perspective for the little Europeans.

Stevo_666

Jeremy.89 said:

Stevo_666 said:

Jeremy.89 said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

To be fair the whole motor industry has a series of major challenges and Brexit is only one of them. Many of these are structural and global in nature. Do a quick search on German motor industry problems, for example.

Of course. I think the SMMT's position is "things are pretty difficult already, so let's not make it any more difficult than necessary".

Understandable.

Ironically, one of the current major challenges for motor manufacturers is meeting strict new EU emissions regs...

Ironic but not really relevant.

UK manufacturers still have to meet those regs if they want to sell to the EU, and even if the UK decided on lighter regulations, the reality is that our market size probably means few manufacturers would go out of their way to produce especially dirty cars for us.

In terms of challenges for the auto industry, it is very relevant
https://bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-26/europe-s-tough-new-emissions-rules-come-with-39-billion-threat

You're right that Brexit won't solve it, but the challenge has been created by the EU.

It's not relevant in terms of leaving the EU though.

Funnily enough, California managed to set the defacto USA standard for auto emissions despite being "only" 15% of US gdp...

Not for long...
https://nytimes.com/2019/09/17/climate/trump-california-emissions-waiver.html

briantrumpet

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.

It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.

Globally its a fact that there are different standards and will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.

Can you just remind us what % of global GDP the UK will be by this time next week?

Exactly the percentage as now

But we're not claiming that everyone copies us on the standards front. As ever, just putting things into a global perspective for the little Europeans.

And you seem to be continuing your habit of downplaying the EU's significance at any opportunity.

surrey_commuter

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

Many believe that EU standards/regulations are effectively world standards/regulations

Why do they think that?

Is there evidence to support that view, or is just a perception because it is the EU and so they must be the best?

The next 16 words I wrote told you why - there is lots of evidence but as you are so blinded by your hatred of all things EU I will leave you to find it.

Pross

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.

It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.

Globally its a fact that there are different standards and will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.

Can you just remind us what % of global GDP the UK will be by this time next week?

Exactly the percentage as now

But we're not claiming that everyone copies us on the standards front. As ever, just putting things into a global perspective for the little Europeans.

A lot of EU safety standards have been based on previous BSI standards

Stevo_666

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

Many believe that EU standards/regulations are effectively world standards/regulations

Why do they think that?

Is there evidence to support that view, or is just a perception because it is the EU and so they must be the best?

The next 16 words I wrote told you why - there is lots of evidence but as you are so blinded by your hatred of all things EU I will leave you to find it.

No evidence then.

Stevo_666

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.

It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.

Globally its a fact that there are different standards and will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.

Can you just remind us what % of global GDP the UK will be by this time next week?

Exactly the percentage as now

But we're not claiming that everyone copies us on the standards front. As ever, just putting things into a global perspective for the little Europeans.

And you seem to be continuing your habit of downplaying the EU's significance at any opportunity.

It's easy to think that Europe is the only thing that matters for some who get engrossed in this thread. As before, just trying to lift people's hesds up and show them that there's a big wide world beyond this continent.

Stevo_666

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.

It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.

Globally its a fact that there are different standards and will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.

Can you just remind us what % of global GDP the UK will be by this time next week?

Exactly the percentage as now

But we're not claiming that everyone copies us on the standards front. As ever, just putting things into a global perspective for the little Europeans.

A lot of EU safety standards have been based on previous BSI standards

Good point. Maybe that's why some EU standards are good?

briantrumpet

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.

It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.

Globally its a fact that there are different standards and will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.

Can you just remind us what % of global GDP the UK will be by this time next week?

Exactly the percentage as now

But we're not claiming that everyone copies us on the standards front. As ever, just putting things into a global perspective for the little Europeans.

And you seem to be continuing your habit of downplaying the EU's significance at any opportunity.

It's easy to think that Europe is the only thing that matters for some who get engrossed in this thread. As before, just trying to lift people's hesds up and show them that there's a big wide world beyond this continent.

Of course there is, but you could equally have said "The EU is still in the top three global trading blocs despite losing the UK's 2% share of global GDP". Whether or not you like the EU as a concept (your posts give the distinct impression you don't), recognising their continuing importance would seem to be sensible.

surrey_commuter

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

Many believe that EU standards/regulations are effectively world standards/regulations

Why do they think that?

Is there evidence to support that view, or is just a perception because it is the EU and so they must be the best?

The next 16 words I wrote told you why - there is lots of evidence but as you are so blinded by your hatred of all things EU I will leave you to find it.

No evidence then.

The world really is not that binary

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.

It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.

Globally its a fact that there are different standards and. will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.

Facebook, Sonos and Microsoft have adapted GDPR globally. Dow have adopted REACH globally. European regs aren't the only show in town but there aren't many global businesses willing to turn their nose up at 1/6 of the world.

Stevo_666

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

Many believe that EU standards/regulations are effectively world standards/regulations

Why do they think that?

Is there evidence to support that view, or is just a perception because it is the EU and so they must be the best?

The next 16 words I wrote told you why - there is lots of evidence but as you are so blinded by your hatred of all things EU I will leave you to find it.

No evidence then.

The world really is not that binary

I just asked you for some evidence. Want to show me?

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.

It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.

Globally its a fact that there are different standards and. will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.

Facebook, Sonos and Microsoft have adapted GDPR globally. Dow have adopted REACH globally. European regs aren't the only show in town but there aren't many global businesses willing to turn their nose up at 1/6 of the world.

That not far off what I'm trying to say. Europe is fairly important, but not the be all and end all.

Stevo_666

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.

It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.

Globally its a fact that there are different standards and will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.

Can you just remind us what % of global GDP the UK will be by this time next week?

Exactly the percentage as now

But we're not claiming that everyone copies us on the standards front. As ever, just putting things into a global perspective for the little Europeans.

And you seem to be continuing your habit of downplaying the EU's significance at any opportunity.

It's easy to think that Europe is the only thing that matters for some who get engrossed in this thread. As before, just trying to lift people's hesds up and show them that there's a big wide world beyond this continent.

Of course there is, but you could equally have said "The EU is still in the top three global trading blocs despite losing the UK's 2% share of global GDP". Whether or not you like the EU as a concept (your posts give the distinct impression you don't), recognising their continuing importance would seem to be sensible.

'Trading bloc' is the key phrase here.

As I've said before, it The EU had stuck to being a trading block rather than over-reaching itself with its ever closer integration, it wouldn't be losing that 2%.

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.

It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.

Globally its a fact that there are different standards and will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.

Can you just remind us what % of global GDP the UK will be by this time next week?

Exactly the percentage as now

But we're not claiming that everyone copies us on the standards front. As ever, just putting things into a global perspective for the little Europeans.

And you seem to be continuing your habit of downplaying the EU's significance at any opportunity.

It's easy to think that Europe is the only thing that matters for some who get engrossed in this thread. As before, just trying to lift people's hesds up and show them that there's a big wide world beyond this continent.

Of course there is, but you could equally have said "The EU is still in the top three global trading blocs despite losing the UK's 2% share of global GDP". Whether or not you like the EU as a concept (your posts give the distinct impression you don't), recognising their continuing importance would seem to be sensible.

'Trading bloc' is the key phrase here.

As I've said before, it The EU had stuck to being a trading block rather than over-reaching itself with its ever closer integration, it wouldn't be losing that 2%.

There's no alternative reality to show that.

Stevo_666

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.

It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.

Globally its a fact that there are different standards and will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.

Can you just remind us what % of global GDP the UK will be by this time next week?

Exactly the percentage as now

But we're not claiming that everyone copies us on the standards front. As ever, just putting things into a global perspective for the little Europeans.

And you seem to be continuing your habit of downplaying the EU's significance at any opportunity.

It's easy to think that Europe is the only thing that matters for some who get engrossed in this thread. As before, just trying to lift people's hesds up and show them that there's a big wide world beyond this continent.

Of course there is, but you could equally have said "The EU is still in the top three global trading blocs despite losing the UK's 2% share of global GDP". Whether or not you like the EU as a concept (your posts give the distinct impression you don't), recognising their continuing importance would seem to be sensible.

'Trading bloc' is the key phrase here.

As I've said before, it The EU had stuck to being a trading block rather than over-reaching itself with its ever closer integration, it wouldn't be losing that 2%.

There's no alternative reality to show that.

I've modelled it so I know.

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.

It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.

Globally its a fact that there are different standards and will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.

Biggest single market in the world and home of a number of the big car manufacturers.

Car industry shot itself in the foot by lying about emissions.

However, decline or not, the industry will be around for a while and it was U.K. policy for the last decade was to support car making in the U.K. and it was broadly successful.

Brexiters themselves have admitted that Brexit has put pay to that policy and success.