BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

surrey_commuter

Pinno wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Looks like the leg pulling worked...as mentioned above, let's watch those nasty Tories getting savaged at the ballot box

Yeah: Tories win 3.2 in extra time. Great. It's not a footy match, it's the future of GB here.

In the whole scheme of things, we need to be a strong GB in a strong Europe in the light of a shifting of power from West to East.
[Russia is becoming more assertive and have formed a stronger alliance with Syria, filling the void that was left by the American withdrawal. China is buying up everything*, re-educating millions of 'non conformists', being coercive to the democratic wishes of the Cantonese and we dare not say boo to them, the US's position in the world is seceding and the rising superpowers are watching us disintegrate.
UK leaves the EU and the UK breaks up. Wonderful. But the 'i'm all right Jack Tory voter' thinks that this is a good thing because he'll be alright in the theoretical Principality of London. And he will but stuff the welfare of the rest and the integrity of the UK.]

I personally will be unaffected by leaving the EU. I'm in a good position but I cannot see how, in any shape or form, a withdrawal will be good, socially, politically (a rise of nationalism?) and economically.
Even if, after 10 years of WTO negotiation, we may, just, be in the same shape as we are now, we will have endured these 3 years of uncertainty and then will have to endure another 10. What happens in the intervening time before securing trade deals? What souls to what devils are we going to have to sell for what price? How much of UK PLC will we have to give away? How many current foreign investors and companies will say, enough is enough, we'll shift operations to within the EU? (Nissan? BMW Mini?).
Those in the upper income percentiles will be alright Jack. They can afford private health care, private schools. They are the deserving, self empowered one's that got on their bicycles after all and far superior to the serfs.

*Including elephants. Not only do they want the ivory, now they are buying the dwindling live stocks up.

Trade deals are a red herring.

Google WTO and you will see it is on the brink of collapse.

shortfall

When apportioning blame for the mess we're in my observation is that for the last few years, we have had probably the worst government AND the worst opposition in living memory, or certainly in my lifetime.

kingstonian

Shortfall wrote:

When apportioning blame for the mess we're in my observation is that for the last few years, we have had probably the worst government AND the worst opposition in living memory, or certainly in my lifetime.

Yes, very fair - I can’t remember a time when both sides of the HofP were as weak as we have now.

pinno

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Trade deals are a red herring.

Google WTO and you will see it is on the brink of collapse.

Blindly into the mire we go...

surrey_commuter

Pinno wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Trade deals are a red herring.

Google WTO and you will see it is on the brink of collapse.

Blindly into the mire we go...

The leadership will be very well aware, the clowns that follow...

surrey_commuter

Chippy’s thread title changes do allow us to see what messaging is getting through.

pinno

verylonglegs

Shortfall wrote:

When apportioning blame for the mess we're in my observation is that for the last few years, we have had probably the worst government AND the worst opposition in living memory, or certainly in my lifetime.

I still find myself mentally stepping back from the current situation and having to remind myself that Boris Johnson is PM of this country. Regardless of the backdrop that in itself is dire. With Corbyn the other most likely. It will get worse before it gets better.

Stevo_666

I've got a great idea lads: let's see if we can get to 2,000 pages of whingeing about leaving the EU before we even leave the EU

Stevo_666

Robert88 wrote:

British ex-Tory now Brexit Party MEP Ann Widdecombe has come out in defence of a former Nazi concentration camp guard who is on trial in Germany, saying that the case against him "lacks proportionality".

Defending concentration camp guards? Whatever next?

Maybe the Brexit Party can foresee a time when it'll want to recruit some?

Stevo 666 wrote:

As for the on-going pant wetting about some secretive US stitch up, I'll leave the centre left tin foil hat brigade to it.

I see the Dog is teaching the old Tory some new tricks!

Maybe you and Flakeney can make each other tin foil hats

Do honestly think there is some secret plot? And do you honestly think that we might suddenly adopt insurance based healthcare? If the answer to either of these is yes, then you may be a bit naive. Or paranoid. Or both.

Stevo_666

Pinno wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Looks like the leg pulling worked...as mentioned above, let's watch those nasty Tories getting savaged at the ballot box

Yeah: Tories win 3.2 in extra time. Great. It's not a footy match, it's the future of GB here.

Exactly, if Labour wins, we're screwed.

As for the rest of your post, stop fretting and assuming the worst. It doesn't do any good and makes it look like you spend too much time in Cake Stop.

pinno

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Looks like the leg pulling worked...as mentioned above, let's watch those nasty Tories getting savaged at the ballot box

Yeah: Tories win 3.2 in extra time. Great. It's not a footy match, it's the future of GB here.

Exactly, if Labour wins, we're screwed.

As for the rest of your post, stop fretting and assuming the worst. It doesn't do any good and makes it look like you spend too much time in Cake Stop.

I personally, would rather the assurance of being under the umbrella of the EU and in a UNITED Kingdom than relying on pontificating about the future - whatever that future may be.

Jez mon

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Looks like the leg pulling worked...as mentioned above, let's watch those nasty Tories getting savaged at the ballot box

Yeah: Tories win 3.2 in extra time. Great. It's not a footy match, it's the future of GB here.

Exactly, if Labour wins, we're screwed.

As for the rest of your post, stop fretting and assuming the worst. It doesn't do any good and makes it look like you spend too much time in Cake Stop.

Do you honestly think that we are screwed if labour get in? If the answer is yes, then you may be a bit naive. Or paranoid. Or both.

robert88

Boris Johnson said he was waiting for the EU to decide "what they want to do".

I thought the idea behind Brexit was that UK government didn't have to that any more?

robert88

Exactly, if Labour wins, we're screwed.

Steveo is very lacking in imagination. As a tax avoidance expert, demand for his services would increase under a regime that would seek to shift the tax burden from the poor to the rich.

It's the Tories who are trying to steal his clients by doing his job for him. The poor don't use tax accountants.

briantrumpet

Jez mon wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Looks like the leg pulling worked...as mentioned above, let's watch those nasty Tories getting savaged at the ballot box

Yeah: Tories win 3.2 in extra time. Great. It's not a footy match, it's the future of GB here.

Exactly, if Labour wins, we're screwed.

As for the rest of your post, stop fretting and assuming the worst. It doesn't do any good and makes it look like you spend too much time in Cake Stop.

Do you honestly think that we are screwed if labour get in? If the answer is yes, then you may be a bit naive. Or paranoid. Or both.

Still, if they did get in, I assume Stevo wouldn't whinge at all - he'd just look at the positives at and tell the rest of us to cheer up.

morstar

Stevo 666 wrote:

I've got a great idea lads: let's see if we can get to 2,000 pages of whingeing about leaving the EU before we even leave the EU

Whether it's positive or negative, it's political discussion which is all we can do. In a representative democracy, apart from when asked to vote, we have no direct influence in proceedings so either...
1) all of our discussions are pointless or
2) informing the debate for the next time we do get to vote.

Your Tory blind faith is no more appealing than any supposed whingeing.

Personally, I find the debate on here helps me make informed opinions because my views (or similar ones) are challenged. I don't think anyone is likely to u-turn their position but opinions do get refined through informed debate. When you're on form, you contribute to this very well. Recently, you're leaning more heavily towards trolling.

pinno

briantrumpet wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Looks like the leg pulling worked...as mentioned above, let's watch those nasty Tories getting savaged at the ballot box

Yeah: Tories win 3.2 in extra time. Great. It's not a footy match, it's the future of GB here.

Exactly, if Labour wins, we're screwed.

As for the rest of your post, stop fretting and assuming the worst. It doesn't do any good and makes it look like you spend too much time in Cake Stop.

Do you honestly think that we are screwed if labour get in? If the answer is yes, then you may be a bit naive. Or paranoid. Or both.

Still, if they did get in, I assume Stevo wouldn't whinge at all - he'd just look at the positives at and tell the rest of us to cheer up.

The blue pill or the red pill...

Stevo_666

Robert88 wrote:

Exactly, if Labour wins, we're screwed.

Steveo is very lacking in imagination. As a tax avoidance expert, demand for his services would increase under a regime that would seek to shift the tax burden from the poor to the rich.

It's the Tories who are trying to steal his clients by doing his job for him. The poor don't use tax accountants.

I say we in a general sense...every cloud etc

Although your claim that the Tories will steal my job does betray both a lack of understanding of tax and also a lack of knowledge of what I do - on a number of levels

Stevo_666

briantrumpet wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Looks like the leg pulling worked...as mentioned above, let's watch those nasty Tories getting savaged at the ballot box

Yeah: Tories win 3.2 in extra time. Great. It's not a footy match, it's the future of GB here.

Exactly, if Labour wins, we're screwed.

As for the rest of your post, stop fretting and assuming the worst. It doesn't do any good and makes it look like you spend too much time in Cake Stop.

Do you honestly think that we are screwed if labour get in? If the answer is yes, then you may be a bit naive. Or paranoid. Or both.

Still, if they did get in, I assume Stevo wouldn't whinge at all - he'd just look at the positives at and tell the rest of us to cheer up.

Sometimes I have to accentuate the positives because people like you are so relentlessly negative and downbeat on here. The 'Losing Mentality Squad' phrase is as apt as ever and a bit of balance is sometimes needed.

If they did get in, admittedly it might give me more to do but I just would get on dealing with it, on both a personal and professional level.

Stevo_666

Pinno wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Looks like the leg pulling worked...as mentioned above, let's watch those nasty Tories getting savaged at the ballot box

Yeah: Tories win 3.2 in extra time. Great. It's not a footy match, it's the future of GB here.

Exactly, if Labour wins, we're screwed.

As for the rest of your post, stop fretting and assuming the worst. It doesn't do any good and makes it look like you spend too much time in Cake Stop.

I personally, would rather the assurance of being under the umbrella of the EU and in a UNITED Kingdom than relying on pontificating about the future - whatever that future may be.

Not sure which umbrella you mean but in terms of thing like security and military protection, it's a pretty small umbrella.

Stevo_666

Jez mon wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Looks like the leg pulling worked...as mentioned above, let's watch those nasty Tories getting savaged at the ballot box

Yeah: Tories win 3.2 in extra time. Great. It's not a footy match, it's the future of GB here.

Exactly, if Labour wins, we're screwed.

As for the rest of your post, stop fretting and assuming the worst. It doesn't do any good and makes it look like you spend too much time in Cake Stop.

Do you honestly think that we are screwed if labour get in? If the answer is yes, then you may be a bit naive. Or paranoid. Or both.

I'm pretty sure I've already answered that several times before. In fact there's another thread that has been running for a few years on pretty much that subject.

Stevo_666

morstar wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

I've got a great idea lads: let's see if we can get to 2,000 pages of whingeing about leaving the EU before we even leave the EU

Whether it's positive or negative, it's political discussion which is all we can do. In a representative democracy, apart from when asked to vote, we have no direct influence in proceedings so either...
1) all of our discussions are pointless or
2) informing the debate for the next time we do get to vote.

Your Tory blind faith is no more appealing than any supposed whingeing.

Personally, I find the debate on here helps me make informed opinions because my views (or similar ones) are challenged. I don't think anyone is likely to u-turn their position but opinions do get refined through informed debate. When you're on form, you contribute to this very well. Recently, you're leaning more heavily towards trolling.

No blind Faith, more a realisation that the Tory option is somewhat better than the alternatives from my point of view.

And I've said before that I often have to pull people up who are being too negative and doom laden about all of this. If I need to use a spot of humour or sarcasm to do that, call it what you want.

sungod

short term thinking

with the erg in charge of johnson, the tories will screw the country for far longer than corbyn ever could

plus at least he'd be entertaining

robert88

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Looks like the leg pulling worked...as mentioned above, let's watch those nasty Tories getting savaged at the ballot box

Yeah: Tories win 3.2 in extra time. Great. It's not a footy match, it's the future of GB here.

Exactly, if Labour wins, we're screwed.

As for the rest of your post, stop fretting and assuming the worst. It doesn't do any good and makes it look like you spend too much time in Cake Stop.

I personally, would rather the assurance of being under the umbrella of the EU and in a UNITED Kingdom than relying on pontificating about the future - whatever that future may be.

Not sure which umbrella you mean but in terms of thing like security and military protection, it's a pretty small umbrella.

You just say whatever you like, you don't care if it true or not:

World military firepower table 2019

1 USA
2 Russia (our neighbour)
3 China
4 India
5 France
6 Japan
7 South Korea (North Korea is #18)
8 England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, currently known as the United Kingdom
9 Turkey
10 Germany

The European Union is currently the top world region for firepower.

Alejandrosdog

Robert88 wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Looks like the leg pulling worked...as mentioned above, let's watch those nasty Tories getting savaged at the ballot box

Yeah: Tories win 3.2 in extra time. Great. It's not a footy match, it's the future of GB here.

Exactly, if Labour wins, we're screwed.

As for the rest of your post, stop fretting and assuming the worst. It doesn't do any good and makes it look like you spend too much time in Cake Stop.

I personally, would rather the assurance of being under the umbrella of the EU and in a UNITED Kingdom than relying on pontificating about the future - whatever that future may be.

Not sure which umbrella you mean but in terms of thing like security and military protection, it's a pretty small umbrella.

You just say whatever you like, you don't care if it true or not:

World military firepower table 2019

1 USA
2 Russia (our neighbour)
3 China
4 India
5 France
6 Japan
7 South Korea (North Korea is #18)
8 England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, currently known as the United Kingdom
9 Turkey
10 Germany

The European Union is currently the top world region for firepower.

Until uk leaves. And the current top military organisation is NATO and will remain that way until the eu decides its military interests (read political ambition) are better served outside of it.

Stevo_666

Robert88 wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Looks like the leg pulling worked...as mentioned above, let's watch those nasty Tories getting savaged at the ballot box

Yeah: Tories win 3.2 in extra time. Great. It's not a footy match, it's the future of GB here.

Exactly, if Labour wins, we're screwed.

As for the rest of your post, stop fretting and assuming the worst. It doesn't do any good and makes it look like you spend too much time in Cake Stop.

I personally, would rather the assurance of being under the umbrella of the EU and in a UNITED Kingdom than relying on pontificating about the future - whatever that future may be.

Not sure which umbrella you mean but in terms of thing like security and military protection, it's a pretty small umbrella.

You just say whatever you like, you don't care if it true or not:

World military firepower table 2019

1 USA
2 Russia (our neighbour)
3 China
4 India
5 France
6 Japan
7 South Korea (North Korea is #18)
8 England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, currently known as the United Kingdom
9 Turkey
10 Germany

The European Union is currently the top world region for firepower.

Care to back up that last statement up with some facts?

As far as I can see, the US outspends the largest EU military nation (France) by a factor of 17 or so. So which EU countries are making up the difference?
https://www.army-technology.com/features/strongest-militaries-in-2019/

robert88

Stevo 666 wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Looks like the leg pulling worked...as mentioned above, let's watch those nasty Tories getting savaged at the ballot box

Yeah: Tories win 3.2 in extra time. Great. It's not a footy match, it's the future of GB here.

Exactly, if Labour wins, we're screwed.

As for the rest of your post, stop fretting and assuming the worst. It doesn't do any good and makes it look like you spend too much time in Cake Stop.

I personally, would rather the assurance of being under the umbrella of the EU and in a UNITED Kingdom than relying on pontificating about the future - whatever that future may be.

Not sure which umbrella you mean but in terms of thing like security and military protection, it's a pretty small umbrella.

You just say whatever you like, you don't care if it true or not:

World military firepower table 2019

1 USA
2 Russia (our neighbour)
3 China
4 India
5 France
6 Japan
7 South Korea (North Korea is #18)
8 England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, currently known as the United Kingdom
9 Turkey
10 Germany

The European Union is currently the top world region for firepower.

Care to back that last statement up with some facts?

As far as I can see, the US outspends the largest EU military nation (France) by a factor of 17 or so. So which EU countries are making up the difference?
https://www.army-technology.com/features/strongest-militaries-in-2019/

Of course the currently paranoid USA is in a league of its own. Otherwise your link affirms what I reported.

Why would/does the UK want to be linked militarily with the USA? It is better to be in a league with our peers than to be tied up to a country that will boss us about.

Their misadventures in Viet Nam, Iraq and Afghanistan for example, tell us that. And now we have the 'very stable genius' screwing up the world.

Unfortunately our military are already closely linked to the USA and without the counterbalance provided by other EU countries that will be an increasingly serious issue.

Stevo_666

Robert88 wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Looks like the leg pulling worked...as mentioned above, let's watch those nasty Tories getting savaged at the ballot box

Yeah: Tories win 3.2 in extra time. Great. It's not a footy match, it's the future of GB here.

Exactly, if Labour wins, we're screwed.

As for the rest of your post, stop fretting and assuming the worst. It doesn't do any good and makes it look like you spend too much time in Cake Stop.

I personally, would rather the assurance of being under the umbrella of the EU and in a UNITED Kingdom than relying on pontificating about the future - whatever that future may be.

Not sure which umbrella you mean but in terms of thing like security and military protection, it's a pretty small umbrella.

You just say whatever you like, you don't care if it true or not:

World military firepower table 2019

1 USA
2 Russia (our neighbour)
3 China
4 India
5 France
6 Japan
7 South Korea (North Korea is #18)
8 England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, currently known as the United Kingdom
9 Turkey
10 Germany

The European Union is currently the top world region for firepower.

Care to back that last statement up with some facts?

As far as I can see, the US outspends the largest EU military nation (France) by a factor of 17 or so. So which EU countries are making up the difference?
https://www.army-technology.com/features/strongest-militaries-in-2019/

Of course the currently paranoid USA is in a league of its own. Otherwise your link affirms what I reported.

Why would/does the UK want to be linked militarily with the USA? It is better to be in a league with our peers than to be tied up to a country that will boss us about.

Their misadventures in Viet Nam, Iraq and Afghanistan for example, tell us that. And now we have the 'very stable genius' screwing up the world.

Unfortunately our military are already closely linked to the USA and without the counterbalance provided by other EU countries that will be an increasingly serious issue.

No it doesn't. You claimed that the EU is currently the top world region for firepower but have just conceded that the US alone exceeds the EU. The US is part of a region as well, so your statement is patently wrong.

You then make it worse by claiming that my link backs up what you said. Which it doesn't. Here's a source that says Europe is third behind The Americas and Asia/Oceania.
https://www.sipri.org/media/press-release/2019/world-military-expenditure-grows-18-trillion-2018

Seems you post what you want and don't care if it's true This could be just one example...

pblakeney

Robert88 wrote:

Why would/does the UK want to be linked militarily with the USA? It is better to be in a league with our peers than to be tied up to a country that will boss us about.

I have one unfortunate word for you, Trident.
Shhh. Maybe they won't notice.