BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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I live in hope.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
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To be fair the whole motor industry has a series of major challenges and Brexit is only one of them. Many of these are structural and global in nature. Do a quick search on German motor industry problems, for example."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
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Of course. I think the SMMT's position is "things are pretty difficult already, so let's not make it any more difficult than necessary".Stevo_666 said:To be fair the whole motor industry has a series of major challenges and Brexit is only one of them. Many of these are structural and global in nature. Do a quick search on German motor industry problems, for example.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Understandable.rjsterry said:
Of course. I think the SMMT's position is "things are pretty difficult already, so let's not make it any more difficult than necessary".Stevo_666 said:To be fair the whole motor industry has a series of major challenges and Brexit is only one of them. Many of these are structural and global in nature. Do a quick search on German motor industry problems, for example.
Ironically, one of the current major challenges for motor manufacturers is meeting strict new EU emissions regs..."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Ironic but not really relevant.Stevo_666 said:
Understandable.rjsterry said:
Of course. I think the SMMT's position is "things are pretty difficult already, so let's not make it any more difficult than necessary".Stevo_666 said:To be fair the whole motor industry has a series of major challenges and Brexit is only one of them. Many of these are structural and global in nature. Do a quick search on German motor industry problems, for example.
Ironically, one of the current major challenges for motor manufacturers is meeting strict new EU emissions regs...
UK manufacturers still have to meet those regs if they want to sell to the EU, and even if the UK decided on lighter regulations, the reality is that our market size probably means few manufacturers would go out of their way to produce especially dirty cars for us.
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In terms of challenges for the auto industry, it is very relevantJeremy.89 said:
Ironic but not really relevant.Stevo_666 said:
Understandable.rjsterry said:
Of course. I think the SMMT's position is "things are pretty difficult already, so let's not make it any more difficult than necessary".Stevo_666 said:To be fair the whole motor industry has a series of major challenges and Brexit is only one of them. Many of these are structural and global in nature. Do a quick search on German motor industry problems, for example.
Ironically, one of the current major challenges for motor manufacturers is meeting strict new EU emissions regs...
UK manufacturers still have to meet those regs if they want to sell to the EU, and even if the UK decided on lighter regulations, the reality is that our market size probably means few manufacturers would go out of their way to produce especially dirty cars for us.
https://bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-26/europe-s-tough-new-emissions-rules-come-with-39-billion-threat
You're right that Brexit won't solve it, but the challenge has been created by the EU."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Many believe that EU standards/regulations are effectively world standards/regulations as it is such an important market and you will meet (and surpass) everybody else’s rules.Jeremy.89 said:
Ironic but not really relevant.Stevo_666 said:
Understandable.rjsterry said:
Of course. I think the SMMT's position is "things are pretty difficult already, so let's not make it any more difficult than necessary".Stevo_666 said:To be fair the whole motor industry has a series of major challenges and Brexit is only one of them. Many of these are structural and global in nature. Do a quick search on German motor industry problems, for example.
Ironically, one of the current major challenges for motor manufacturers is meeting strict new EU emissions regs...
UK manufacturers still have to meet those regs if they want to sell to the EU, and even if the UK decided on lighter regulations, the reality is that our market size probably means few manufacturers would go out of their way to produce especially dirty cars for us.
Would be no surprise if the clown prince took back control and used it to align with the EU whilst boasting that it is his choice to wild cheers from the hordes.
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Why do they think that?surrey_commuter said:
Many believe that EU standards/regulations are effectively world standards/regulations
Is there evidence to support that view, or is just a perception because it is the EU and so they must be the best?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.
It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect
Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Globally its a fact that there are different standards and will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.rjsterry said:Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.
It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect
Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
It's not relevant in terms of leaving the EU though.Stevo_666 said:
In terms of challenges for the auto industry, it is very relevantJeremy.89 said:
Ironic but not really relevant.Stevo_666 said:
Understandable.rjsterry said:
Of course. I think the SMMT's position is "things are pretty difficult already, so let's not make it any more difficult than necessary".Stevo_666 said:To be fair the whole motor industry has a series of major challenges and Brexit is only one of them. Many of these are structural and global in nature. Do a quick search on German motor industry problems, for example.
Ironically, one of the current major challenges for motor manufacturers is meeting strict new EU emissions regs...
UK manufacturers still have to meet those regs if they want to sell to the EU, and even if the UK decided on lighter regulations, the reality is that our market size probably means few manufacturers would go out of their way to produce especially dirty cars for us.
https://bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-26/europe-s-tough-new-emissions-rules-come-with-39-billion-threat
You're right that Brexit won't solve it, but the challenge has been created by the EU.
Funnily enough, California managed to set the defacto USA standard for auto emissions despite being "only" 15% of US gdp...
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Can you just remind us what % of global GDP the UK will be by this time next week?Stevo_666 said:
Globally its a fact that there are different standards and will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.rjsterry said:Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.
It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect
Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.0 -
Exactly the percentage as nowbriantrumpet said:
Can you just remind us what % of global GDP the UK will be by this time next week?Stevo_666 said:
Globally its a fact that there are different standards and will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.rjsterry said:Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.
It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect
Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.
But we're not claiming that everyone copies us on the standards front. As ever, just putting things into a global perspective for the little Europeans."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Not for long...Jeremy.89 said:
It's not relevant in terms of leaving the EU though.Stevo_666 said:
In terms of challenges for the auto industry, it is very relevantJeremy.89 said:
Ironic but not really relevant.Stevo_666 said:
Understandable.rjsterry said:
Of course. I think the SMMT's position is "things are pretty difficult already, so let's not make it any more difficult than necessary".Stevo_666 said:To be fair the whole motor industry has a series of major challenges and Brexit is only one of them. Many of these are structural and global in nature. Do a quick search on German motor industry problems, for example.
Ironically, one of the current major challenges for motor manufacturers is meeting strict new EU emissions regs...
UK manufacturers still have to meet those regs if they want to sell to the EU, and even if the UK decided on lighter regulations, the reality is that our market size probably means few manufacturers would go out of their way to produce especially dirty cars for us.
https://bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-26/europe-s-tough-new-emissions-rules-come-with-39-billion-threat
You're right that Brexit won't solve it, but the challenge has been created by the EU.
Funnily enough, California managed to set the defacto USA standard for auto emissions despite being "only" 15% of US gdp...
https://nytimes.com/2019/09/17/climate/trump-california-emissions-waiver.html"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
And you seem to be continuing your habit of downplaying the EU's significance at any opportunity.Stevo_666 said:
Exactly the percentage as nowbriantrumpet said:
Can you just remind us what % of global GDP the UK will be by this time next week?Stevo_666 said:
Globally its a fact that there are different standards and will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.rjsterry said:Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.
It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect
Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.
But we're not claiming that everyone copies us on the standards front. As ever, just putting things into a global perspective for the little Europeans.0 -
The next 16 words I wrote told you why - there is lots of evidence but as you are so blinded by your hatred of all things EU I will leave you to find it.Stevo_666 said:
Why do they think that?surrey_commuter said:
Many believe that EU standards/regulations are effectively world standards/regulations
Is there evidence to support that view, or is just a perception because it is the EU and so they must be the best?0 -
A lot of EU safety standards have been based on previous BSI standardsStevo_666 said:
Exactly the percentage as nowbriantrumpet said:
Can you just remind us what % of global GDP the UK will be by this time next week?Stevo_666 said:
Globally its a fact that there are different standards and will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.rjsterry said:Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.
It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect
Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.
But we're not claiming that everyone copies us on the standards front. As ever, just putting things into a global perspective for the little Europeans.0 -
No evidence then.surrey_commuter said:
The next 16 words I wrote told you why - there is lots of evidence but as you are so blinded by your hatred of all things EU I will leave you to find it.Stevo_666 said:
Why do they think that?surrey_commuter said:
Many believe that EU standards/regulations are effectively world standards/regulations
Is there evidence to support that view, or is just a perception because it is the EU and so they must be the best?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
It's easy to think that Europe is the only thing that matters for some who get engrossed in this thread. As before, just trying to lift people's hesds up and show them that there's a big wide world beyond this continent.briantrumpet said:
And you seem to be continuing your habit of downplaying the EU's significance at any opportunity.Stevo_666 said:
Exactly the percentage as nowbriantrumpet said:
Can you just remind us what % of global GDP the UK will be by this time next week?Stevo_666 said:
Globally its a fact that there are different standards and will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.rjsterry said:Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.
It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect
Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.
But we're not claiming that everyone copies us on the standards front. As ever, just putting things into a global perspective for the little Europeans."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Good point. Maybe that's why some EU standards are good?Pross said:
A lot of EU safety standards have been based on previous BSI standardsStevo_666 said:
Exactly the percentage as nowbriantrumpet said:
Can you just remind us what % of global GDP the UK will be by this time next week?Stevo_666 said:
Globally its a fact that there are different standards and will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.rjsterry said:Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.
It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect
Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.
But we're not claiming that everyone copies us on the standards front. As ever, just putting things into a global perspective for the little Europeans."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo_666 said:
It's easy to think that Europe is the only thing that matters for some who get engrossed in this thread. As before, just trying to lift people's hesds up and show them that there's a big wide world beyond this continent.briantrumpet said:
And you seem to be continuing your habit of downplaying the EU's significance at any opportunity.Stevo_666 said:
Exactly the percentage as nowbriantrumpet said:
Can you just remind us what % of global GDP the UK will be by this time next week?Stevo_666 said:
Globally its a fact that there are different standards and will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.rjsterry said:Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.
It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect
Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.
But we're not claiming that everyone copies us on the standards front. As ever, just putting things into a global perspective for the little Europeans.
Of course there is, but you could equally have said "The EU is still in the top three global trading blocs despite losing the UK's 2% share of global GDP". Whether or not you like the EU as a concept (your posts give the distinct impression you don't), recognising their continuing importance would seem to be sensible.0 -
The world really is not that binaryStevo_666 said:
No evidence then.surrey_commuter said:
The next 16 words I wrote told you why - there is lots of evidence but as you are so blinded by your hatred of all things EU I will leave you to find it.Stevo_666 said:
Why do they think that?surrey_commuter said:
Many believe that EU standards/regulations are effectively world standards/regulations
Is there evidence to support that view, or is just a perception because it is the EU and so they must be the best?
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Facebook, Sonos and Microsoft have adapted GDPR globally. Dow have adopted REACH globally. European regs aren't the only show in town but there aren't many global businesses willing to turn their nose up at 1/6 of the world.Stevo_666 said:
Globally its a fact that there are different standards and. will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.rjsterry said:Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.
It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect
Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I just asked you for some evidence. Want to show me?surrey_commuter said:
The world really is not that binaryStevo_666 said:
No evidence then.surrey_commuter said:
The next 16 words I wrote told you why - there is lots of evidence but as you are so blinded by your hatred of all things EU I will leave you to find it.Stevo_666 said:
Why do they think that?surrey_commuter said:
Many believe that EU standards/regulations are effectively world standards/regulations
Is there evidence to support that view, or is just a perception because it is the EU and so they must be the best?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
That not far off what I'm trying to say. Europe is fairly important, but not the be all and end all.rjsterry said:
Facebook, Sonos and Microsoft have adapted GDPR globally. Dow have adopted REACH globally. European regs aren't the only show in town but there aren't many global businesses willing to turn their nose up at 1/6 of the world.Stevo_666 said:
Globally its a fact that there are different standards and. will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.rjsterry said:Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.
It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect
Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
'Trading bloc' is the key phrase here.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
It's easy to think that Europe is the only thing that matters for some who get engrossed in this thread. As before, just trying to lift people's hesds up and show them that there's a big wide world beyond this continent.briantrumpet said:
And you seem to be continuing your habit of downplaying the EU's significance at any opportunity.Stevo_666 said:
Exactly the percentage as nowbriantrumpet said:
Can you just remind us what % of global GDP the UK will be by this time next week?Stevo_666 said:
Globally its a fact that there are different standards and will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.rjsterry said:Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.
It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect
Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.
But we're not claiming that everyone copies us on the standards front. As ever, just putting things into a global perspective for the little Europeans.
Of course there is, but you could equally have said "The EU is still in the top three global trading blocs despite losing the UK's 2% share of global GDP". Whether or not you like the EU as a concept (your posts give the distinct impression you don't), recognising their continuing importance would seem to be sensible.
As I've said before, it The EU had stuck to being a trading block rather than over-reaching itself with its ever closer integration, it wouldn't be losing that 2%."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
There's no alternative reality to show that.Stevo_666 said:
'Trading bloc' is the key phrase here.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
It's easy to think that Europe is the only thing that matters for some who get engrossed in this thread. As before, just trying to lift people's hesds up and show them that there's a big wide world beyond this continent.briantrumpet said:
And you seem to be continuing your habit of downplaying the EU's significance at any opportunity.Stevo_666 said:
Exactly the percentage as nowbriantrumpet said:
Can you just remind us what % of global GDP the UK will be by this time next week?Stevo_666 said:
Globally its a fact that there are different standards and will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.rjsterry said:Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.
It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect
Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.
But we're not claiming that everyone copies us on the standards front. As ever, just putting things into a global perspective for the little Europeans.
Of course there is, but you could equally have said "The EU is still in the top three global trading blocs despite losing the UK's 2% share of global GDP". Whether or not you like the EU as a concept (your posts give the distinct impression you don't), recognising their continuing importance would seem to be sensible.
As I've said before, it The EU had stuck to being a trading block rather than over-reaching itself with its ever closer integration, it wouldn't be losing that 2%.0 -
I've modelled it so I know.kingstongraham said:
There's no alternative reality to show that.Stevo_666 said:
'Trading bloc' is the key phrase here.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
It's easy to think that Europe is the only thing that matters for some who get engrossed in this thread. As before, just trying to lift people's hesds up and show them that there's a big wide world beyond this continent.briantrumpet said:
And you seem to be continuing your habit of downplaying the EU's significance at any opportunity.Stevo_666 said:
Exactly the percentage as nowbriantrumpet said:
Can you just remind us what % of global GDP the UK will be by this time next week?Stevo_666 said:
Globally its a fact that there are different standards and will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.rjsterry said:Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.
It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect
Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.
But we're not claiming that everyone copies us on the standards front. As ever, just putting things into a global perspective for the little Europeans.
Of course there is, but you could equally have said "The EU is still in the top three global trading blocs despite losing the UK's 2% share of global GDP". Whether or not you like the EU as a concept (your posts give the distinct impression you don't), recognising their continuing importance would seem to be sensible.
As I've said before, it The EU had stuck to being a trading block rather than over-reaching itself with its ever closer integration, it wouldn't be losing that 2%."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Biggest single market in the world and home of a number of the big car manufacturers.Stevo_666 said:
Globally its a fact that there are different standards and will be in future. Not sure the rest of the World is falling over itself to fall in line with a trading bloc that represents approx 15% of global GDP (nearer 13% this time next week). And falling after that given relative growth rates.rjsterry said:Regardless of whether people think the standards are better, it's not economic to manufacture to several different standards.
It's even got a name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect
Have a look also at the REACH regs for chemicals; aviation regs; and data privacy regs.
Car industry shot itself in the foot by lying about emissions.
However, decline or not, the industry will be around for a while and it was U.K. policy for the last decade was to support car making in the U.K. and it was broadly successful.
Brexiters themselves have admitted that Brexit has put pay to that policy and success.0
