Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

cycleclinic

DT Swiss RR440 or Kinlin XR22T RTS. the kinlin is better rim, asymmetric with 3.0mm offset.

the Pacenti SL25 only selling point is it is wide. they are cheap enough now to be a decent buy but not cheap enough to ignore the kinlin.

Ugo is right about the spoke count but I would use triple butted spokes. I stopped using sapim race for 28 spoke disc brake build when I had one break. I know it shocked me. I had to sit down and have a cup of tea. Keep calm I said and use sapim force. It could have been a dodgy spoke I suppose and the wheel has been fine since but it was rebuilt with sapim force.

DT Swiss apline III is the other spoke choice. don't mess about the rim wont wear out so wheel life is = to the life of the spokes.

hopkinb

g00se wrote:

Kingstonian wrote:

Am looking to get a pair of 50mm carbon disc brake wheels (QR, not TA), preferably able to run tubeless. Prefer to not pay over £1200. Any suggestions?

If you are running to a budget, then the Chain Reaction / Wiggle's own brand Prime RR50 or RP50s are reasonable and fit the bill. Pretty much the standard chinese carbon rims and I expect the hubs are a generic from the usual sources. But they come set up for tubless with all the bits and includes skewers. I doubt they'll have the attention to detail you'll get from proper hand-builts but you'll have a UK based warranty and a price similar to the direct sales farsports type of wheelsets direct from China.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/prim ... prod142960

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/prim ... prod142951

As others have said, Malcomb will build a great set - anf they're a little bit wider than the above:

https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/collection ... -cx-gravel

I've heard good things about Stayer Cycles too in London:

http://www.stayercycles.com/wheels.html

Thanks g00se. I had been recommended the CRC/Wiggle Primes by another forumite and was swayed by the idea of interest free credit to spread the cost a bit. I had also looked at Malcolm's site, and the thought of handbuilt plus excellent customer service did appeal greatly, though with a 5 week lead time. I'm going to have a think about the various options, then decide whether I really can justify £800 quid, just to go whoooosh on my commute...

batters

Thanks for the help guys, have gone for the Pacentis after all as postage turned out to be free so too good to pass up. No doubt will have a couple more questions once all the bits arrive and I need to magic a wheel out of them.

P

cycleclinic

postage is not free, it is in the price.

pblakeney

Slightly off topic. Just put my new wheels on the bike. Nice. H Plus Son rims.
They look better without the tube nuts but something tells me that I should use them. opinions?

sloppyschleckonds

PBlakeney wrote:

Slightly off topic. Just put my new wheels on the bike. Nice. H Plus Son rims.
They look better without the tube nuts but something tells me that I should use them. opinions?

I wouldn't run tubeless without nuts on the valves

timothyw

I wouldn't run tubed with nuts on the valves. That covers both possibilities :-P

kingstonian

I have their Archetype rims with clincher tyres and don't use the nut, it serves no useful purpose and spoils the look of the rim

pblakeney

Kingstonian wrote:

I have their Archetype rims with clincher tyres and don't use the nut, it serves no useful purpose and spoils the look of the rim

Fair point, well made.
Not tubeless.

cycleclinic

It does serve a useful purpose. the tube cant move and become cockeyed leading to a tear.

timothyw

How often does that happen then? Never had it happen to my tubes in many thousands of miles.

There is one reason you might want to use the nut - sometimes the hole that the valve stem sits in isn't very snug, and you find that it makes a bit of noise as you ride along because it rattles side to side. In that circumstance putting on the nut on should stop it wobbling and so stop the noise.

I've only had that with one set of wheels, the stock wheels on my Giant.

sloppyschleckonds

TimothyW wrote:

I wouldn't run tubed with nuts on the valves. That covers both possibilities :-P

Its 2017, noone would buy new wheels without them being tubeless would they? Would they?

pblakeney

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

TimothyW wrote:

I wouldn't run tubed with nuts on the valves. That covers both possibilities :-P

Its 2017, noone would buy new wheels without them being tubeless would they? Would they?

Yup. Better choice of tyres. Plus, only anecdotal, but all those I know who run tubeless still get visits from you know who.

timothyw

Owning a tubeless wheelset is the easy (and fairly cheap) part of the equation. I've got one of those.

Stumping up for tubeless tyres, valves, sealant, injector, inflator device, tubeless tape is where you tend to reflect that actually tubes ain't all that bad, especially when the wide rims mean they're rolling better than ever.

kingstonian

thecycleclinic wrote:

It does serve a useful purpose. the tube cant move and become cockeyed leading to a tear.

That's a first for me, never experienced it myself and haven't heard of anyone else I know suffering from this. I guess there is a chance, but then there again there's also a chance of being struck by meteorite while out on a ride.

drlodge

Marin Maniac wrote:

Also the campag pads stop the wheels really well, much better than I anticipated, however they squeal like a little pig? Do they wear in over time?

Thanks. Alex.

I have the same wheels and the wheels/pads have started to squeal, probably as a result of them bedding in and its when I brake above a certain amount. I might try toeing them in, won't need much I think - a credit card to the rear of the pad or even something a bit thinner (business card?).

svetty

PBlakeney wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

TimothyW wrote:

I wouldn't run tubed with nuts on the valves. That covers both possibilities :-P

Its 2017, noone would buy new wheels without them being tubeless would they? Would they?

Yup. Better choice of tyres. Plus, only anecdotal, but all those I know who run tubeless still get visits from you know who.

And then when the fairy does strike and the sealant doesn't seal having fun fitting a tube into the tubeless tyre and having more fun refitting the tyre so you can get home. Then finding that the tubeless tyre - having been stretched since it was new and first fitted - won't seal any more.....
Having used both tubeless and tubes extensively I'm of a mind that tubeless is a solution to a problem that isn't really much of problem at all. Accept that others do prefer 'em though......

sloppyschleckonds

Road tubeless thread>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

cycleclinic

I keep on saying this. Wityh tubeless tyre you should never need to fit a tube. If you do you are doing something wrong. there are permenant ways of fixing tubeless tyre externally and the fix will at bare minimum get you home where you can patch the tyre from the inside. Some tyre's though are so puncture prone you may be sticking worms and using superglue often but that better than sticking a tube in. Also those light weight racing tubeless tyres fair better than the equivelent racing clincher.

blunty there are too many myths about tubeless and most issues are due to poor tyres or user error. I ride over 300 miles a week nearly all of them on tubeless. The puncture fairly rarly visits and when she does I whip the flexible superglue and the worms. I have gone through all the errors so you dont have too, there is a guide on the website. maybe it should be a sticky here as it is generic.

I leave my tubeless tyres in place until they are worn out so I dont have to re seal them of course it helps having tyres that hardly ever puncture if they do at all.

The hint is the name tubeless. leave the tubes at home.

sloppyschleckonds

TimothyW wrote:

actually tubes ain't all that bad, especially when the wide rims mean they're rolling better than ever.

So if tubeless made that ride even betterer......

veronese68

thecycleclinic wrote:

I have gone through all the errors so you dont have too, there is a guide on the website. maybe it should be a sticky here as it is generic.

If you are prepared to I'm sure the site would love to have it as a sticky in the workshop section.

munkster

New Open Pro tubeless rims then... It says "Recommended tyre widths: 28 to 47 mm".

What's that all about then? I was planning to use these on my next build with what-I-presumed-was-standard-on-road 25mm road tyres.

Have I missed something or is that a guideline that can be ignored??

Edit: looking here - as far as I know they are the ones I think they are!

sloppyschleckonds

There is an internal rim width/ tyre width chart on Sheldon Brown, I'm sure 25's will be fine

cycleclinic

Mavic say 25mm tyres are fine on the new op rim. People take the recomended widths far to seriously. Some 23mm tyres with a large bead to bead distance (conti gp 4000s) will be fine. Mavic have there 25mm tubeless tyre. So it a mavic typo. Folks use your common sense. This rim is wider than mtb rims were in the 90's.

munkster

Commonsense = "querying it" in my book. It didn't look right but since I've seen some online retailers quoting it verbatim in their product info as I said I wondered if I was missing something.

cycleclinic

That line was not really aimed at you. There are many what width tyre should i use threads. Commonsence is required.

Those same reatilers may also be quoting 589mm for the op rim as the erd forgetting mavic erd's are there number +3mm.

cycleclinic

@ timothyW yes I have seen this before quite a few times.

Someone asked for pics of a mavic open pro wheelset. These were done by my tame photographer. I am not that talented.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/i1j97nnrghndk ... 7.jpg?dl=0

deadlegs

Hello wheel knowledge crew, I’ve read every page of this thread but that is my total wheelbuilding knowledge!

Me: 83kg climber, non-competitive rider. 8000km/yr – commuting, weekend rides & a few sportives (Fred Whitton, Ride Ldn, Sodbury this year). Usually rolling terrain but love chasing/smashing hills. Used C15 Zondas for 2 years: Broken & replaced 3 rear spokes so far. Other than that I love the Zondas, super light & stiff compared to all my previous wheels. Now on 25mm GP4000 II S clinchers.

Looking for handbuilt upgrades. Minimum C17. Definitely clinchers. I want either more aero or lighter than 26mm/30mm 1595g Zondas (obviously would accept both!). Willing to be guided by forum knowledge/experience; just want wheels to be an improvement over Zondas. Based on reading whole thread I’ve narrowed it down to these:

Kinlin 31 (31mm), Miche Primato, CX Ray, 20/24, 1655g, £362
HED Belgium + (25mm), Miche Primato, CX Ray, 24/28, 1605g, £518
Mavic Open Pro UST (23-25mm), Miche Primato, CX Ray, 24/28, 1545g, £342?

Costs probably wrong (quick look at Cycle Clinic). Wheels will be for weekend riding/reasonable weather only. Will any of these feel like or be an improvement? Happy to pay more for hubs but Miche sound like best mix of value/weight/serviceability. Don’t fancy paying £300 more to lose weight at hub. Any opinions or changes based on my size/needs/riding welcomed.

cycleclinic

You have the price wrong for the OP build the price you have seen is with round spokes. CX-rays add alot of money and made the listing messy. with round spokes weight is 1590g. The HED rims look good that is the only reason to buy them. The other two rims are just fine.

The mavic rim has a pressure limit of 87 psi so is best with tubeless tyres. Durano folding tyres are apparantly a tight fit too tight according to a sweedish chap. I have yet to try these tyres on these rims.

DT swiss rims are quite nice but are more expensive than the mavic or kinlins without doing anything different apart from having normal pressure limits.

Pacenti rim are too expensive and tyre fitting is still tight but the forza rim is a vast improvement on the v2 SL23. Again you buy solely for the looks.

Easton have a good looking HED priced rim. again buy for the looks. I think you maybe getting the point by now. so long as the rim is round enough, flat, stiff, allow the fitting of tubeless and tubed tyres without hassle and is not too expensive then it is a good choice. Otherwise you are buying image and there is nothing wrong with that so long as you know that.

Also dont be get hung up about weight. The wheels you are looking at are all within 60g of each other 1590g to 1655g average i.e the same weight in reality.

deadlegs

Thanks for the feedback Malcolm. You shortened my list as 87psi max is too low for Mavics. Had a look & didn't fancy DT rims (RR511 too heavy) but now you've made me want their hubs! + added Easton R90SL into the mix -10g lighter, 2mm deeper & £10 cheaper than HED but from the same factory. None of these are significant but I like the lighter and deeper part

I may have read & forgotten but anyone have a comparison of DCR and Miche Primato hubs? DCR £30 more & weigh 130g less. What about durability/frequency of service/quality in use?

My head says Kinlin 31s but the little voice keeps saying "Lighter, pretty rims, spend spend :twisted: "