Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

MisterMuncher

Love the old school 'six. Surprised the Mavics look so nice next to the drainpipe sized tubes. Great stuff.

nachetetm

Does anyone tried the new Ambrosio P20 rims yet? On paper they look very nice but like many other rims that looked very promising and turned out to be quite disappointing (Pacentis?), I would like to hear some reviews before I decide to built a wheelset with them. Same question about the Velocity Quill, can anyone give a report about them?

kingstonian

I’m liking the look of DCR’s 50mm disk brake wheels, with either DT Swiss 240 or Tune King Kong hubs. Does anyone have Ny experience of using them?

The other option I have is the Hunt 50 Carbon aero disc, which I may (stress the word “may”, I need to get confirmation) be able to get through an LBS on the Cycle to Work scheme (thus saving oodles). Anyone have these?

cycleclinic

I have both the P20 and the quill in the shop and will be building with them soon. I have yet to ride a set of either and have no long term experience of either but they look alright.

beanstalk

I am used to build my wheels with the leading spokes heads showing inward.
On some wheels I see the leading spokes heads showing outward.
Does this make a difference to the wheel in terms of stiffness or durability or does it not matter at all?

cycleclinic

It makes a difference to how easily you can gets your hands in the wheel to grasp a pair of spoke to stress relieve. I don't think of leading or trailing spokes but I think you may build the opposite way I do and when I get customer suplied hubs originally laced this way I cringe as I know I won't know where to put my hands.

nachetetm

thecycleclinic wrote:

I have both the P20 and the quill in the shop and will be building with them soon. I have yet to ride a set of either and have no long term experience of either but they look alright.

Thanks for the input. It sounds like they are good options and exactly what I've been looking for a long time, tubeless modern profile in polished silver. I can see myself getting a new wheelset this christmas.

cycleclinic

I'll get the kinlins in polished silver at some point as well.

Hanners

Anyone else got any feedback on the open pro ust in tubeless very tempted to give them a go as my replacement winter wheels

drlodge

Hanners wrote:

Anyone else got any feedback on the open pro ust in tubeless very tempted to give them a go as my replacement winter wheels

Why put more expensive rims on winter wheels....go for the kinlins and put the Mavics on "good" wheels.

cycleclinic

The open pro ust rims are similar to the kinlins but with a welded join. Tyre fitting on both rims appears to be similar.

beanstalk

That looks so weird..

bmxboy10

beanstalk wrote:

That looks so weird..

Agreed

sloppyschleckonds

beanstalk wrote:

That looks so weird..

What spokes are they?

pblakeney

beanstalk wrote:

That looks so weird..

Subaru boot liner?

drlodge

thecycleclinic wrote:

The open pro ust rims are similar to the kinlins but with a welded join. Tyre fitting on both rims appears to be similar.

Glad I went with the Kinlins for my winter bike, those Mavic rims would look our of place on a 1980's 531 frame me thinks. But they could look rather nice on my Rourke with Campag hubs!

agent_buchwald

I've just put some details into a spoke calculator and the NDS rear spoke tension comes out at 39 % of the DS, is this reasonable or is it just to be expected with non asymmetric rims? Thanks

Hanners

drlodge wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

The open pro ust rims are similar to the kinlins but with a welded join. Tyre fitting on both rims appears to be similar.

Glad I went with the Kinlins for my winter bike, those Mavic rims would look our of place on a 1980's 531 frame me thinks. But they could look rather nice on my Rourke with Campag hubs!

I've gone with open pro ust on dt Swiss 350 hubs look good on my genesis equilibrium, I didn't like them with a black spoke but with a silver spoke dt revolution they look completely different and very nice. First ride on them this weekend

timothyw

Agent Buchwald wrote:

I've just put some details into a spoke calculator and the NDS rear spoke tension comes out at 39 % of the DS, is this reasonable or is it just to be expected with non asymmetric rims? Thanks

That's pretty much to be expected. That's why there are so many tricks to increase the tension on the non drive side - asymmetric rims as you've mentioned, 2 to 1 spoke ratio such as on the forum favourite Zondas, using skinnier spokes non drive side, lacing non drive side radial so that the spokes all sit on the inside of the hub, etc etc.

Anyhow, this is why you need to get the tension bang on for rear wheels - too low and the non drive side spokes fatigue and fail, too high and you get rim failure.

agent_buchwald

Thanks for that - it's interesting that the Mavic Open pro is not available asymmetric when so many rims are.

cycleclinic

I would not worry about the tension balance. I have been building wheels like that for years and no issues. One personal set has a tension balance of 32.5% and because it is a stiff wheel (due to the 65mm rear flange spacing) with 24 rear spokes and a v1 pacenti sl23 rim, there are no spoke issues. One day the rim will probably crack but that's a pacenti thing. Tensions have to very even though but that's easy to manage but you have to accept the rim roundness as it is rather than attempt radial truing. Radial truing only introduces spoke tension unevenness anyway so should be avoided.

agent_buchwald

Thanks - I find radial truing the most unsatisfactory part of wheel building so it was bottom of my list of priorities anyway, I think I've been lucky with rims so far and havn't had one that has needed much radial attention.

hypster

thecycleclinic wrote:

I would not worry about the tension balance. I have been building wheels like that for years and no issues. One personal set has a tension balance of 32.5% and because it is a stiff wheel (due to the 65mm rear flange spacing) with 24 rear spokes and a v1 pacenti sl23 rim, there are no spoke issues. One day the rim will probably crack but that's a pacenti thing. Tensions have to very even though but that's easy to manage but you have to accept the rim roundness as it is rather than attempt radial truing. Radial truing only introduces spoke tension unevenness anyway so should be avoided.

Interesting you say that. Do you not correct for radial truing at all?

beanstalk

thecycleclinic wrote:

(due to the 65mm rear flange spacing) .

What hub is that?

cycleclinic

hyster - no i dont with the tensions even you see how round the rim really is. If that is acceptable then good if not re rim. radial truing when you are at good even tension means you are putting tension unevenness into the wheel. why would you do that? I wont but I know others will so when the wheel is out of the box it looks perfect against the brake pads. most rims even HED's are around 0.5mm roundness that can be seen against the brake pads. To true that out to get the wheel 0.2mm roundness which is what some people like, would require in some cases fairly big tensions changes compromising spoke life. Again why would you do that?

Only about 10% of the rims I pick up (a rough guess) build up into wheels with roundness <0.3mm the rest are up to 0.5mm roundness a few are 0.5mm to 0.7mm (every R460 falls into that range) and a very small number fall outside that.

Miche sypertype is the hub. A fine hub that wont sell simply because everyone is obessed with tension balance even wheel builders. Take carbon Ti they had a great hub with 42mm NDS flange to centre spacing. That did not bother me. it bothered fairwheel bikes and a few other so they changed it. now the flange spacing is the same as the White industries T11. nothing wrong with that but there was nothing wrong with the original. it gave a laterally stiffer build which means the lower tension NDS is not a problem.

beanstalk

thecycleclinic wrote:

Miche sypertype is the hub. A fine hub that wont sell simply because everyone is obessed with tension balance even wheel builders.

And it has an aluminium freehub body...

cycleclinic

315g for the pair as well. carbon shell too.

Barrington12

Quick question...
does anyone have any opinion on using ACI Alpina DB spokes for a wheelbuild? Any previous problems with these or anyone know anything about them that might put me off? Definitely available at a good price vs DT Swiss and Sapim but thought I would check before ordering. Thanks in advance.

bobones

Barrington12 wrote:

Quick question...
does anyone have any opinion on using ACI Alpina DB spokes for a wheelbuild? Any previous problems with these or anyone know anything about them that might put me off? Definitely available at a good price vs DT Swiss and Sapim but thought I would check before ordering. Thanks in advance.

No problems with them at all. 2.0/1.7/2.0 and 6g each for black ones. Got them from Cycle Basket and would get them again.

hypster

Barrington12 wrote:

Quick question...
does anyone have any opinion on using ACI Alpina DB spokes for a wheelbuild? Any previous problems with these or anyone know anything about them that might put me off? Definitely available at a good price vs DT Swiss and Sapim but thought I would check before ordering. Thanks in advance.

I've used them on a couple of wheel builds for myself. I thought they were good value for money but broke a spoke recently in the front wheel of my disc-braked GT Grade. 28H Stans Grail rim, DT Swiss 240 hub 15mm TA. I've had no problems with the rim-braked wheels but then again I've used them very little and mostly ride the GT Grade. I've had no problems with the GT Grade wheels since replacing the spoke (fingers crossed).

I personally won't chance them again but I weigh 82kg so make of that what you will.