Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

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  • buckmulligan
    buckmulligan Posts: 1,031
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    UST is very welcome... it should put an end to a saga of poor compatibility. If that means riding only Mavic tyres on Mavic rims, so be it... although I am sure others will jump on the boat in no time

    See, I don't get this.

    Tyres are a hugely important factor in determining bike feel, handling and speed; having to use a (potentially) inferior tyre just to be able to run it tubeless doesn't strike me as a guaranteed win.

    I'm all for progression in the industry though, so I'm hoping some major tyre manufacturers jump on board with Mavic (read: someone other than Hutchinson!) and expand the choice of UST tyres available; then I'll consider it a significant factor in a potential purchase.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    BuckMulligan wrote:

    See, I don't get this.

    Tyres are a hugely important factor in determining bike feel, handling and speed; having to use a (potentially) inferior tyre just to be able to run it tubeless doesn't strike me as a guaranteed win.

    Well, obviously we all expect them not to be inferior. The good thing is they might be more available than Maxxis, Hutchinson etc... frankly a lottery to find them when you need them
    left the forum March 2023
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    as I have said according to mavic you can use any tyres it is just Mavic UST tyres will be an easy fit so they say.

    It is not about safety as such. I will test fit some IRC's next week when I get the rims.

    A rim that can only take one tyre is pretty useless. I will be trying a variety of tubeless tyres and clinchers on these but like Mavic say other tyres will fit. I have also ordered some of the mavic UST tyres. I will try them out and see how good they are before selling them.

    The price of the rims is £60 thats the RRP and given the trade it cant be that much lower.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    thecycleclinic wrote:

    The price of the rims is £60 thats the RRP and given the trade it cant be that much lower.

    That is very good... I'll get a pair next year once I have destroyed the DT Swiss... although I'd really like the Exalith
    left the forum March 2023
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    The Yskion PRo UST tyre will have a RRP of £50. The trade price might mean they sell for £40 to £45 though once supply meets demand.

    The Exalith will be out next year so mavic say. I hope so as I would like to try them myself. Got to wear out rims as well.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • bobones
    bobones Posts: 1,215
    Any idea of the ERD of the Open Pro UST rims?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    bobones wrote:
    Any idea of the ERD of the Open Pro UST rims?

    Nobody has ever seen one in the flesh! You can't rely on manufacturers' specs, they are always wrong
    left the forum March 2023
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,490
    Asking for advice.
    Background - Serious incident with the bike today. A spoke in the rear wheel went ping while climbing and the untrue wheel went into the derailleur. Six spokes gone and a rebuild required, rims are worn and were getting replaced in the autumn anyway. Royce hubs, going on a Colnago Master currently using Ambrossio Excellence 32 spokes.
    The choice - Any recommendations for a better silver alloy rim, or stick with the Excellence?
    The build - My last wheel build was excellent, and done by a guy on here who no longer does the service :( . Who best to send the hubs to for the build? (I don't trust myself to do a good job).
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Asking for advice.
    Background - Serious incident with the bike today. A spoke in the rear wheel went ping while climbing and the untrue wheel went into the derailleur. Six spokes gone and a rebuild required, rims are worn and were getting replaced in the autumn anyway. Royce hubs, going on a Colnago Master currently using Ambrossio Excellence 32 spokes.
    The choice - Any recommendations for a better silver alloy rim, or stick with the Excellence?
    The build - My last wheel build was excellent, and done by a guy on here who no longer does the service :( . Who best to send the hubs to for the build? (I don't trust myself to do a good job).

    H plus Son TB14, send them to Malcolm
    left the forum March 2023
  • torino
    torino Posts: 46
    These Ambrosio Excellence rims are very very narrow 622x13C is that right?

    I think if the same incident happened on a wider rim it wouldn't have caused the wheel to go so untrue that the other spokes would hit the RD? Or doesn't really matter?
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,490
    ugo.santalucia wrote:

    H plus Son TB14, send them to Malcolm
    Malcolm?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,490
    torino wrote:
    These Ambrosio Excellence rims are very very narrow 622x13C is that right?

    I think if the same incident happened on a wider rim it wouldn't have caused the wheel to go so untrue that the other spokes would hit the RD? Or doesn't really matter?
    14mm internal, 19mm external from what I can see. I had to loosen the pads to fit my spare Sciroccos.
    Too late now, but possibly good advice for future. Possibly the H Plus Sons.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    The TB14 is the only wide silver rim there is in 32H drilling. I want to bring in silver Kinlins but that wont be till latter this year. My kinlin order wont be in the UK till mid august I paid for it on the 2nd May.

    The trick is building a wheel where a spoke does not pop. For a 32H rear TB14 on a royce hub if a spoke went the wheel would go out of true fairly badly. This maybe unlikey but mechs seem to go into wheels with alarming regularity. It may or may not be rideable in that event. using a 36 spoke rear is therefore not daft as spoke failure is much less likely and if a mech did take out a spoke the wheel will still be rideable.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    thecycleclinic wrote:
    The TB14 is the only wide silver rim there is in 32H drilling. I want to bring in silver Kinlins but that wont be till latter this year. My kinlin order wont be in the UK till mid august I paid for it on the 2nd May.

    The trick is building a wheel where a spoke does not pop. For a 32H rear TB14 on a royce hub if a spoke went the wheel would go out of true fairly badly. This maybe unlikey but mechs seem to go into wheels with alarming regularity. It may or may not be rideable in that event. using a 36 spoke rear is therefore not daft as spoke failure is much less likely and if a mech did take out a spoke the wheel will still be rideable.

    Nonsense, a friend of mine rode Paris-Roubax with 31 spokes... one popped well before Troisville... obviously not a wheel that I built... 8)
    left the forum March 2023
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,490
    I think the only reason that things went so bad for me was the combination of a spoke breaking, being on the big cog, and standing up honking up a 10%. The taxi was 10 minutes away from me riding it fixed gear (spoke part in the cassette) to the next town due to lost phone signal. I had already walked 1/2 mile.
    I truly think it was doable, if gently, with the rear brake released as there was no frame rub.
    P.S. Who is Malcolm?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • munkster
    munkster Posts: 819
    P.S. Who is Malcolm?

    https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,490
    munkster wrote:
    P.S. Who is Malcolm?

    https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/
    Cheers!
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • bmxboy10
    bmxboy10 Posts: 1,958
    Me again....

    So decided to wait for the new Mavic Open Pro Rim and now its available...Yay! :lol:

    Just to refresh i am 14 and a bit stone.

    A certain builder north of the border is offering a good deal but like Mr Rowland only builds high spoke count wheels so id be looking at a 32/32 Mavic OP UST on Primato hubs for about £240 or on Hope RS4s for about £100 more. Now this seems a good deal but do i really want a 32/32 wheelset on at my weight on a nice Spec Tarmac? What would you do?

    I will call Cycle Clinic back this week as he can do me a 24/32 Primato build but i suspect it will be £40 quid more.

    The Hope build looks attractive but i think the wheels are going to be heavy in a 32/32 build - am i right?

    On the other hand i could say sod it and get a set of sexy Elaith Ksyriums but that would be daft right?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    solboy10 wrote:
    Me again....

    So decided to wait for the new Mavic Open Pro Rim and now its available...Yay! :lol:

    Just to refresh i am 14 and a bit stone.

    A certain builder north of the border is offering a good deal but like Mr Rowland only builds high spoke count wheels so id be looking at a 32/32 Mavic OP UST on Primato hubs for about £240 or on Hope RS4s for about £100 more. Now this seems a good deal but do i really want a 32/32 wheelset on at my weight on a nice Spec Tarmac? What would you do?

    I will call Cycle Clinic back this week as he can do me a 24/32 Primato build but i suspect it will be £40 quid more.

    The Hope build looks attractive but i think the wheels are going to be heavy in a 32/32 build - am i right?

    On the other hand i could say sod it and get a set of sexy Elaith Ksyriums but that would be daft right?

    Laser spokes are 5 grams each + 1 gram per nipple. 8 x 6 = 48 grams difference between what you want and what you are offered. That is roughly the mass of a sip of water.
    Yes, Hope are very nice... lots of folks at the National 400 were on Hope hubs... a rather discerning lot, I have to say
    left the forum March 2023
  • davem399
    davem399 Posts: 269
    solboy10 wrote:
    Me again....
    Mr Rowland only builds high spoke count wheels so id be looking at a 32/32 Mavic OP UST on Primato hubs "......

    Harry built me a pair of wheels last year on Primato hubs, 24/28, and I'm around 80 kg(12.5 stone approx). I'm pretty sure they are unbadged 31mm deep Kinlin rims.
  • munkster
    munkster Posts: 819
    How wide are the new Open Pro rims out of interest? I am seeing 19mm internal width a lot but the actual external width seems to have passed me by.
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    he want the open Pro though. Solboy when getting quotes for wheels you need to know the full specification. Different spoke types e.t.c all affect the cost. yout wheels builder quoting £240 for the new open pro UST with 32H Miche hubs is not leaving alot for himself. The rims are £120 hub should be around £70. O.K he will have profit in those and so he should. That leaves £50 for spokes and his labour charge. Even though he is making money on the parts I cant fathom why he is not charging more. it is not a race to the bottom. He needs to make a living after all. At my best guess this wheel builder once accounting for all part cost assuming cheap silver spokes is making around £60 profit for pair on which he owes HMRC 20% for VAT. So that £50 which may not sound bad but that £25 per wheel and it will take 1 hr to build each wheel. So he is not even covering his labour only and selling the parts at cost. good for the customer terrible for him.

    Mavic have also told me the rims are only available from today mine arrive tomorrow.

    When I get the rims I will measure the external width.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • bmxboy10
    bmxboy10 Posts: 1,958
    I assume ACI spokes are ok?
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    never used them but I dont think there is anything wrong with them either.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    I've used them a lot for budget builds, not because they are inferior, but because they are generally cheaper and there isn't much choice... I have used the DB 2.0/1.7/2.0 and I have used a batch of the old Elliptical they used to make in the late 90s.
    left the forum March 2023
  • munkster
    munkster Posts: 819
    Have your Open Pro rims shown up Malcolm? :-)
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Called mavic today as I have no rims. They are being picked but the 24H rims wont be available until the end of the month. The delays have already started.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • bmxboy10
    bmxboy10 Posts: 1,958
    thecycleclinic wrote:
    Called mavic today as I have no rims. They are being picked but the 24H rims wont be available until the end of the month. The delays have already started.
    So what drillings have you got coming?
  • tazmon
    tazmon Posts: 107
    I'm currently have a deposit down on some Hunt Carbon50s for my thru axle disc bike, centre lock discs.

    Can anyone suggest a hand built alternative with wide rims so I can run 28c tubeless - I like the idea of using Hope RS4 hubs.

    I weigh 75kgs and these would be for 'fast' road use.

    Cheers
    Road - Scott Solace
    Mountain - Santa Cruz Tazmon (retro) and Scott Spark
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    The new Open Pro has just arrived. 425g 22.2mm wide, 18.6mm internal width. Funky looking. I have 28H and 32H rim as the 24H wont be released till the end of the month. I suppose the first build I do then for photos will be with Campagnolo record hubs.

    Tamzon, wide tubeless carbon well those hunts are just that. I believe Hunt wheels are built by humans in taiwan. I do my own version which uses a 45mm deep wide rim other wise you have to contact strada wheels, JRA, wheelsmith, spokeman to see what they offer. I suppose any of the wheel builders above could lace there rims to Hope's

    If you are thinking about a cheaper alloy rim there are so many to choose from DT Swiss RR411, Kinlin XR22T, Kinlin XR31T, Mavic Open Pro, Pacenti forza.

    I am not sure why you are thinking of changin wheels just because of the hubs unless you want pretty colours. That Hope do very well.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.

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