Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

Wheely33

Wheely33 wrote:

Hopefully this is the correct place to be asking this question .: I'm​ looking into buying a second-hand powertap Wheelset that is ten speed - the question is how do I convert it to 11 speed, and would the rear wheel need rebuilding or simply redishing ?

So. Bought this Wheelset cheap as the rear rim was near the wear limit. I've now bought a new rear rim and was wondering if any kind folk can tell me what spoke lengths are needed. The hub is a powertap G3 24 hole, and the rim is a 66mm carbon 2011/12 Reynolds . Also, an authorative answer on the original dish question would be great as it's obviously being built from scratch..

ugo.santalucia

Wheely33 wrote:

Wheely33 wrote:

Hopefully this is the correct place to be asking this question .: I'm​ looking into buying a second-hand powertap Wheelset that is ten speed - the question is how do I convert it to 11 speed, and would the rear wheel need rebuilding or simply redishing ?

So. Bought this Wheelset cheap as the rear rim was near the wear limit. I've now bought a new rear rim and was wondering if any kind folk can tell me what spoke lengths are needed. The hub is a powertap G3 24 hole, and the rim is a 66mm carbon 2011/12 Reynolds . Also, an authorative answer on the original dish question would be great as it's obviously being built from scratch..

I think you need to measure these components... don't think the ERD of the rim is something anyone on here will know and I would not trust information you find on the web. Is it a rim for internal nipples?

Wheely33

Yes it is designed for internal nipples.

ugo.santalucia

Wheely33 wrote:

Yes it is designed for internal nipples.

That makes measuring ERD a little trickier

sloppyschleckonds

This spoke length calculator may help:

http://www.prowheelbuilder.com/spokelengthcalculator

kingofthetailwind

Looking to get my Archetype/Ambriosio Zenith wheelset rebuilt. 10,000 miles on the rims so think I've done fairly well. Anyone know what the approximate cost would be? New rims and bearings. I changed the freehub recently. After this mileage would the spokes/nipples need replaced as well, or still OK to re-use? Not sure what make the spokes are. 28 front and rear. Considered trying it myself but doubt I'd save that much really.

ugo.santalucia

KingOfTheTailwind wrote:

Looking to get my Archetype/Ambriosio Zenith wheelset rebuilt. 10,000 miles on the rims so think I've done fairly well. Anyone know what the approximate cost would be? New rims and bearings. I changed the freehub recently. After this mileage would the spokes/nipples need replaced as well, or still OK to re-use? Not sure what make the spokes are. 28 front and rear. Considered trying it myself but doubt I'd save that much really.

New nipples for sure, Without spokes and going for a cheaper rim but still a quality rim like DT 460 (can take same spokes) you will be looking at 130 pounds I think... with spokes probably 160

cycleclinic

Rims are £40 each and a shop is going to charge £30 per wheel labour or more if they are any good. Thats £140. You can do the job your self for less.

So long as your nipples unwind easily reusing your spokes will be easy.

The bearing vary in price depending on brand.

imatfaal

Just went to Pacenti website to check something and getting holding/dodgy-search page from the Site Owner (normally what you get when the website has gone permanently dead) - is there something up with Pacenti?

Am I right in remembering that 125kgf is about max for Pacenti SL25s?

ugo.santalucia

imatfaal wrote:

Just went to Pacenti website to check something and getting holding/dodgy-search page from the Site Owner (normally what you get when the website has gone permanently dead) - is there something up with Pacenti?

Am I right in remembering that 125kgf is about max for Pacenti SL25s?

Is about max for most rims, so yes

cycleclinic

The website bas gone. I will have to find out if tbey still In business.

Eoinl

I was wondering about Pacenti for my next set of handbuilts, have heard nothing about the new Forza rim. Was expecting great things after they were announced. Guess I'll have to wait for the new open pro for my next wheel set.

beanstalk

Eoinl wrote:

Was expecting great things after they were announced.

It is just a rim.
I wonder if they are worth the high price tag.
If you want width and offset, get Kinlin XR22T or XR31T, they are quite OK.

MisterMuncher

I've got 400 quid. I weigh 11 stone. Reasonably powerful rider for my size, and I climb a fair bit.

What's my best bet for 1450-ish grams, stiff and strong, and properly tubeless?

bobones

MisterMuncher wrote:

I've got 400 quid. I weigh 11 stone. Reasonably powerful rider for my size, and I climb a fair bit.

What's my best bet for 1450-ish grams, stiff and strong, and properly tubeless?

Here's one option:
DCR 23mm rims, DCR hubs, CX Ray spokes - 1385g = £395.
http://dcrwheels.co.uk/custom-wheelsets ... ggestions/

ugo.santalucia

bobones wrote:

MisterMuncher wrote:

I've got 400 quid. I weigh 11 stone. Reasonably powerful rider for my size, and I climb a fair bit.

What's my best bet for 1450-ish grams, stiff and strong, and properly tubeless?

Here's one option:
DCR 23mm rims, DCR hubs, CX Ray spokes - 1385g = £395.
http://dcrwheels.co.uk/custom-wheelsets ... ggestions/

WIth budget hubs the options are endless... the trick is to get there using quality hubs instead.. there is a distinct lack of decent light hubs at a reasonable price

MisterMuncher

I have been scrounging for some lightly used DA or such hubs on eBay. My local guy is more than willing to build onto hubs I supply, which might ease the hub issue.

In the meantime, this looks pretty tempting

https://www.aerycs-shop.de/monthly-special/june

torino

MisterMuncher wrote:

In the meantime, this looks pretty tempting

https://www.aerycs-shop.de/monthly-special/june

Rims are kind of narrow, and with 20/24 I wonder whether this wheelset will last long. You are light so maybe it's fine. I wouldn't want 23mm tires though, don't use them anymore. Hubs looks nice. How about spare parts?

I think for the money you can get something better, maybe Kinlin or RR411 asymmetric laced to Novatec hubs, 24/28, round 1.5mm spokes front and rear NDS, 1.8mm drive-side. Perhaps that's sub 1,5kg and fits your budget.

kingofthetailwind

thecycleclinic wrote:

Rims are £40 each and a shop is going to charge £30 per wheel labour or more if they are any good. Thats £140. You can do the job your self for less.

So long as your nipples unwind easily reusing your spokes will be easy.

The bearing vary in price depending on brand.

Thanks for the replies. Funds very tight so will probably have a go at this myself. Looking at cheaper alternatives to the Archetype, the DT R460 seems to be a straight swap? ERD only 1mm different, and neither is offset? So ~£50 for the rims plus new nipples would be a very cheap build as I could re-use the spokes? Can pick up the bearings fairly cheaply from a local company. Both rims are similar widths and weight. Just need to figure out what nipples I need.

ugo.santalucia

KingOfTheTailwind wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

Rims are £40 each and a shop is going to charge £30 per wheel labour or more if they are any good. Thats £140. You can do the job your self for less.

So long as your nipples unwind easily reusing your spokes will be easy.

The bearing vary in price depending on brand.

Thanks for the replies. Funds very tight so will probably have a go at this myself. Looking at cheaper alternatives to the Archetype, the DT R460 seems to be a straight swap? ERD only 1mm different, and neither is offset? So ~£50 for the rims plus new nipples would be a very cheap build as I could re-use the spokes? Can pick up the bearings fairly cheaply from a local company. Both rims are similar widths and weight. Just need to figure out what nipples I need.

Yes, you are right... the ERD are actually the same and in both cases not the ones quoted. 593 is the real ERD of both rims. I have them ,they are nice, the joint is not as smooth as the Archetype's though.
You need the same length nipples as you have now, so either 12 or 14, brass, of course

kingofthetailwind

ugo.santalucia wrote:

KingOfTheTailwind wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

Rims are £40 each and a shop is going to charge £30 per wheel labour or more if they are any good. Thats £140. You can do the job your self for less.

So long as your nipples unwind easily reusing your spokes will be easy.

The bearing vary in price depending on brand.

Thanks for the replies. Funds very tight so will probably have a go at this myself. Looking at cheaper alternatives to the Archetype, the DT R460 seems to be a straight swap? ERD only 1mm different, and neither is offset? So ~£50 for the rims plus new nipples would be a very cheap build as I could re-use the spokes? Can pick up the bearings fairly cheaply from a local company. Both rims are similar widths and weight. Just need to figure out what nipples I need.

Yes, you are right... the ERD are actually the same and in both cases not the ones quoted. 593 is the real ERD of both rims. I have them ,they are nice, the joint is not as smooth as the Archetype's though.
You need the same length nipples as you have now, so either 12 or 14, brass, of course

Brilliant, thanks again.

ugo.santalucia

I've just rebuilt a wheel for a colleague at work. Rear Genesis Day One Alfine. The morons who built it used alloy nipples on a wheel that weighs well in excess of 2kg... why wouldn't you save 20 grams on that?
Result: all seized and crumbling, leading to repeated failures.

So, for strong and stable, think again... if you want your wheels to outlast May next year, steer clear of alloy nipples

cycleclinic

Ugo alloy nipples have there place. Rebuilt a crashed wheel yesterday that i built with alloy nips over a year ago. All the nipples unwound without twisting the cx ray spokes. So they dont alway crumble. As i have said many times before if alloy nipples are going to be used a corrision inhibitor on the threads must be used. All my own wheels even the ones i use over winter have alloy nips and none have broke. I simply do not get failures with them. While alloy nipples dont make sence for that wheelset you rebuilt ugo and should not be used for rider over 100kg, to say what you have about alloy nipples is wrong as my experience over many years of using them is quite different. I do use brass nipples as well but i use more alloy than brass.

timothyw

I'm intrigued that you put a limit on it at 100kg - surely if you have adequate spokes then they shouldn't be any more of a liability?

Eg why shouldn't you use alloy nipples on a 36 spoke wheel built with the notoriously robust archetype rims?

Is it simply a question that above a certain weight ultimate strength should be the priority rather than a little bit of weight saving and wind-up avoidance?

Is it because you wouldn't use laser or other skinny spokes on such a robust build so wind up is less of a problem?

ugo.santalucia

It's a race to the bottom... manufacturers quote low weight for their wheels, hence builders need to use crap materials to be competitive... but ultimately it is a race to the bottom. If you keep your wheels for long enough, ultimately your alloy nipples will let you down. The expectation is that you wear the rim before that happens, which might or might not be the case. Your prep compounds will not last forever.

I have always believed the rationale for going handbuilt is pretty much solely reliability and if this comes at a 40 grams weight penalty, then so be it... this is why I have little faith in 20/24 handbuilts with alloy nipples... they are in essence as reliable as a pair of factory wheels, with the caveat that they are "rebuildable", but they cost more to start, so in the end it might not be such a great deal. Buy new for 400, it costs you 180 to rebuild = 580... two pairs of Zonda are less that that and it is unlikely that your hubs will survive long enough for a second rebuild, where you would start to marginally benefit moneywise. They might, with new bearings, new freehub and such, so more money.

Reliability always pays off in the long run... not being stranded at the side of the road is priceless

apreading

Surely any corrosion inhibitor will become innefective over time? So unless you rebuild your wheels often or maybe dont use them in crap weather and winter, then the reliance on such an inhibitor shortens the reliable life of the wheel?

bmxboy10

Looks like the new open pro UST are starting to become available as Sigma have them on their website for £60 per rim!

bmxboy10

£52 on Starbike

sloppyschleckonds

Now if only they were the exalith versions

bmxboy10

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Now if only they were the exalith versions

Are they really worth the expected premium