Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

matt_n-2

That's true and they look great on builds at the NAHBS, to most though £150-170 is a lot to spend on an aluminium rim.

If they could tie some aero gains in then it would push more people into buying them.

ugo.santalucia

Price is not going to be a problem... it will be perceived as a high end product and people will want it, like they want Dura Ace, Record, Zipp, Chris King and Mavic SLR. As long as money doesn't buy you a turd, a high price point is not going to deter customers.

One of the drawbacks of being a builder lately was the huge stock of different rims one had to keep. whereas we might go back to a time when everybody want Open PRO... basically the Harry Rowland's model... one rim fits them all... great, where do I re-start?

Bobbinogs

mmm, I cannot see this rim becoming the 'go to' option for most, particularly in that fancy coating malarky. I don't have a problem braking with decent pads and some nice standard alloy rims so paying anything up to £500 just for a rim rebuild (when spokes and building is totted up) just ain't going to be happening for me, even if the brake track is black and stays black.

One of the main downsides of the Archetypes, IMO, is not that the track ends up as an alloy colour, it is that it starts black and then goes through a period where it looks really rubbish and never really recovers (the black coating obviously only wears due to the brakes so there is no nice sharp line like my current DT Swiss rims). If H Plus Son just machined off the black after production then there would be no issue for me.

ugo.santalucia

Bobbinogs wrote:

mmm, I cannot see this rim becoming the 'go to' option for most, particularly in that fancy coating malarky. I don't have a problem braking with decent pads and some nice standard alloy rims so paying anything up to £500 just for a rim rebuild (when spokes and building is totted up) just ain't going to be happening for me, even if the brake track is black and stays black.

One of the main downsides of the Archetypes, IMO, is not that the track ends up as an alloy colour, it is that it starts black and then goes through a period where it looks really rubbish and never really recovers (the black coating obviously only wears due to the brakes so there is no nice sharp line like my current DT Swiss rims). If H Plus Son just machined off the black after production then there would be no issue for me.

It will become the "go to" option... trust me. People have been talking about a new Open PRO with this and that for years and on paper this is better than people's wildest dreams...

roubaixmb

My wildest dreams don't involve bike wheels....

ugo.santalucia

RoubaixMB wrote:

My wildest dreams don't involve bike wheels....

WHo said an Open PRO cannot be used as Hula-Hoop... keep dreaming....

www.richtreen.co.uk

Looking forward to these being released. The CD version of the current Open Pro outlasts anything else I have tried for rim wear. Coupled with the fact that the Exalith braking is also superior. Only moved over to the DT Swiss R460's last year to get a wide rim, and was just about to get a second set built up, but going to hold fire for a bit now.

Hopefully they prove durable as they ain't going to be cheap! Also might look a bit too pretty for the winter hack ...

timothyw

The DT Swiss r460 certainly appears to be the rim they have to beat - what are the advantages of the new open pro beyond a bit less weight and the opportunity to spend £100 on brake rim coating?

ugo.santalucia

TimothyW wrote:

The DT Swiss r460 certainly appears to be the rim they have to beat - what are the advantages of the new open pro beyond a bit less weight and the opportunity to spend £100 on brake rim coating?

I think you are wrong. There is a market for sensibly priced rims like Kinlin and DT 460, but most people who go for a custom build want something a bit special that also looks good. From what I have seen, these rims with black coat and the all important yellow Mavic logo look quite sexy and if they brake 10% better they also justify the price point.
There will always be those who point out that you can get the same for half the price or less, but that won't cut it for most folks.
As far as I know Ultegra sells more than 105, which in turn sells more than Tiagra, which tells you that we're not here for the bargain.

I had a pair of Velocity A23... they were awesome rims, but they also looked shite, I replaced them fairly quickly... the awesome looking HED Belgium + are still on after 3 years...

timothyw

So are you saying that the advantage is that the new open pro looks better?

I've got nothing against the exalith coating beyond the fact that I can't justify the expense when I already have two disk braked bikes to cover my winter/bad weather mileage - in this country that means that my rims last a looooong time anyway.

ugo.santalucia

TimothyW wrote:

So are you saying that the advantage is that the new open pro looks better?

There are a few... the most irrational, but also the most important is looks. There is the fact that it's the only UST road rim on the market... it's one of the lightest and if you spend extra you get the exalith coating. It's also a Mavic product, it matters

jdee84

If bad weather riding wouldn't be a friend of the exalith coating and I ll probably need to replace my bad weather wheels next winter.

Would the spokes on my kinlin 31 on dura ace hubs be reusable on a miche hub with the same rims to free up the Dura ace for the new open pro?

ugo.santalucia

jdee84 wrote:

If bad weather riding wouldn't be a friend of the exalith coating and I ll probably need to replace my bad weather wheels next winter.

Would the spokes on my kinlin 31 on dura ace hubs be reusable on a miche hub with the same rims to free up the Dura ace for the new open pro?

Fitting the spokes to a new hub is a recipe for disaster, regardless of whether the length is right

lostboysaint

I'm looking forward to the new Open Pro and don't give a monkeys about the brake track - it'd be going onto a disc braked bike. Agree with Ugo - my Velocity A23s are superb but don't give you any aesthetic buzz at all.

itboffin

ugo.santalucia wrote:

RoubaixMB wrote:

My wildest dreams don't involve bike wheels....

WHo said an Open PRO cannot be used as Hula-Hoop... keep dreaming....

my wildest dreams involve me being rich enough to buy a road building machine, mmm smooth tarmac :roll:

cossington

I have been looking the Exalith braking surface on the Carbone wheels. Trying to decide if it is worth the extra over the 'plain' aluminium braking surface.

One point that puts me off a little is the need for a specific brake pad for the Exalith rims. I tend to swap my wheels between my bikes quite often (according to fitness levels, route, weather etc etc), the need to change brake pads/ shoes each time the wheels are changed as well, is a little off-putting.
Presumably the same issue of changing brake pads will be relevant to users of the new Open Pro ?
Is this -
a) an extra pain,
b) a small time penalty to pay, or
c) will people not bother using the right pad for a given rim?

I'd welcome other people's views.

David

timothyw

Somewhere between A and B i suppose!

I guess this is actually a great reason to go for the Exalith coating on the new open pros - if you ride high end Mavic exalith wheels (eg Carbone) some of the time, by switching to Exalith open pro training wheels, you now no longer need to worry about switching brake pads.

The obvious solution would be to fit exalith pads on all your bikes, but someone has mooted that the risk there is picking up a bit of aluminium from a conventional rim in the pad, which then damages your rim when you switch wheels, so not such a great idea.

imafatman

Hi chaps.

Need some build advice. I'm 130kg and I am just about to buy a Genesis CDF and I want to get some new built wheels to do with it.

Looking for some rim/hub suggestions which I can rely on to be super strong. Need to be disc compatible if that makes a difference and something which I can run wide tyres. Maybe up to 35mm?

ugo.santalucia

imafatman wrote:

Hi chaps.

Need some build advice. I'm 130kg and I am just about to buy a Genesis CDF and I want to get some new built wheels to do with it.

Looking for some rim/hub suggestions which I can rely on to be super strong. Need to be disc compatible if that makes a difference and something which I can run wide tyres. Maybe up to 35mm?

I suggest you wait until you get the bike... there might be nothing wrong with the wheels. You can spend more and get better quality components, that might last longer, but for the wheels to be reliable for you, there won't be any weight saving or significant performance improvement.

Anyway... Velocity Chukker rims built on Shimano hubs with Sapim strong spokes would be my advice. I would probably look at 36 spokes, at least at the rear

timothyw

Any reason to pick Sapim Strong (2.3mm-2.0mm) ahead of DT Alpine 3 (2.34mm-1.8mm-2.0mm)?

I mean, I've killed a lot of spokes, I've never killed one in the middle section though.

They're also pretty dirt cheap via Rose.

Seems to me like weight that can safely be saved?

ugo.santalucia

Pretty sure the Alpine 3 don't fit through Shimano hub holes.

What I meant was Sapim Force, not Strong

cycleclinic

Force and strong spokes fit through shimano hubs. Did a set of Kinlin XR31RTS disc brake rims with washer on disc brake hubs using force spokes for a rider your weight and they have been fine. normally the archetype is the rim of choice due to the absurdly thick spoke nipple bed. The chukker is wider. 32 spokes is enough with triple butted spokes but 4 more wont hurt either.

cycleclinic

the new open pro will be hugely popular. If I can sell a hed rim at £145 then a mavic open pro with exalith coating is going to be popular as you are getting something that is actually better.

Also if you are changing pads when you changes wheels buy another bike and different bikes for different wheels. Thats what I do. It is more fun building a bike than changing pads. Got a tubular disc brake wheelset back from a a review. Now I have a wheelset and no bike for it. so no.18 is on the cards. The thing is what should it be as building a new bike is way more fun than trying to sell them when they are used and dirty.

cycleclinic

DA and Miche hubs share very similar dimensions. If you have a 18H front though you cant get miche hubs in that or Open pro's in that.

sloppyschleckonds

thecycleclinic wrote:

the new open pro will be hugely popular. If I can sell a hed rim at £145 then a mavic open pro with exalith coating is going to be popular as you are getting something that is actually better.

Any delivery dates yet Malcolm?

cycleclinic

I cant even order them yet. I want boxes of 10.

brit66

I've loved my Open Pro rims — 10 years old and still going strong. Comfortable and still feel just as fast as the poncy high end wheels I've ridden. The new ones look the business and I'm going to HAVE to get some, but dam, £170 a rim!

sloppyschleckonds

brit66 wrote:

I've loved my Open Pro rims — 10 years old and still going strong. Comfortable and still feel just as fast as the poncy high end wheels I've ridden. The new ones look the business and I'm going to HAVE to get some, but dam, £170 a rim!

I thought it was €170 a rim? So that makes 200 english pounds.

ugo.santalucia

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

brit66 wrote:

I've loved my Open Pro rims — 10 years old and still going strong. Comfortable and still feel just as fast as the poncy high end wheels I've ridden. The new ones look the business and I'm going to HAVE to get some, but dam, £170 a rim!

I thought it was €170 a rim? So that makes 200 english pounds.

In the short term they are roughly pricing 1:1, in the long run is anyone's guess

gratziani

Mate has some dura ace hubs with CX rays on Archetypes , wheels about four year old.

What are his options for using the hubs again ? same again , or can he go carbon or better rims about now ?