Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

ugo.santalucia

njmartyn08 wrote:

i just googled the noise - http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=hop ... ORM=VRDGAR
can't be doing with that!

The noisier the freehub, the stronger the pawls engaging mechanism... Hope have the best freehub on the market IMO...

apreading

The DT Swiss freehub is legendary too though, so dont be put off it if you want a quieter life! the DT350 is a great value hub too. If you want really quiet though, I love the American Classic hubs that I had/have.

I have seen advice on here that the Archetype rim builds a good wheel for heavy riders. An asymmetric rim could be worth looking at too as it should help.

njmartyn08

thanks guys, one last question before i bite the bullet (and this may sound stupid so apologies!).
weight quoted is 1.8kg for the new ones - i assume this is the total for two wheels?...
weight for my current ones (been looking everywhere!) is:
'Considering the weight of the front (1.38kg) and rear (1.96kg) wheels includes a pair of brake rotors, we’re impressed by their comparative lack of bulk.'
3.34kg total so i'd be saving 1.54kg over my stock rims?

drlodge

I would think 1.8kg is for both wheels, without rotors, cassette or QR. Your 3.34kg total includes a pair or rotors.

njmartyn08

thanks, so still should be a big saving from my current stock setup.

Man Of Lard

Surely those weights must include tyres & tubes? (I've replaced the P-X2 on my Giant Revolt with a pair of Hope Hoops - went from Front 1179g; Rear 1383g to Front 825g; Rear 962g - I can't imagine what a wheel that was 1380g would look and feel like on the front)

njmartyn08

ordered, malcom from the cycle clinic has been a huge help.
went with: 28F/28R Hydra (black, black sapim force spokes, black brass nipples) Miche Syntium DX hubs.
now i just need to find some bomb proof/fast tubeless tyres!

drlodge

You can tell Malcolm not to start on your wheels until he's finished building mine!

njmartyn08

ha well he did say 3-4 week lead time

drlodge

His site said 2 weeks when I ordered, its now saying 4 weeks and I've been waiting 6 :?

ugo.santalucia

drlodge wrote:

I really do wonder why such people are recommending CX spokes for this kind of wheel...could be ignorance or trying to make more £££s at the customers expense. I simply wouldn't deal with people who make such stupid recommendations.

I don't think it's stupid... they might have evidence that the CX ray last longer. IMO a fatigue bench test is not very relevant, but maybe they have hundreds of builds with CX ray to back up their suggestion.

drlodge wrote:

Ugo, are the Sapim Strong like the Alpine 3s? Your rear wheel build using Alpine 3s on the drive side with D-light on the NDS seems like a sensible idea, however this was for road rim wheels, disc wheels may need stronger spokes on the NDS due to the increased torque under braking.

They are similar... the Alpine 3 are even bigger at the J... but they don't fit all hubs... they go well with Hope and Novatec and not well with most other hubs

ugo.santalucia

njmartyn08 wrote:

ordered, malcom from the cycle clinic has been a huge help.
went with: 28F/28R Hydra (black, black sapim force spokes, black brass nipples) Miche Syntium DX hubs.
now i just need to find some bomb proof/fast tubeless tyres!

IME the strongest tubeless tyres are Hutchinson Sector. I've done over 3000 miles on a pair and they are still going strong. They only come as 28 and fit more like a 30 mm, so you need good clearance

itboffin

6 weeks and you haven't cancelled?

drlodge

itboffin wrote:

6 weeks and you haven't cancelled?

This isn't Canyon you know I don't mind the wait, its not like I don't have other wheels/bikes to ride and TCC are certainly the best value for the wheels I want and I believe they are going to be good wheels. Malcolm emailed me earlier saying the wheels are building today and will ship today to arrive tomorrow. £700 for 50mm toroidal carbon tubeless wheels with CX Ray spokes and IRC roadlites fitted is pretty good value I think.

At least with their customer service you get through to the horses mouth, so to speak. I tend to judge companies/shops on how well they respond to "issues" rather than the issues themselves.

Hopefully some pictures and a ride report to follow (they roll well, light, stiff bla bla bla lol)

cycleclinic

6 weeks is a long time. I did quote less and that was a mistake. All I can do is appologise and try to build more wheels in day but that is also hard.

drlodge

Its not a problem for me, I understand I'm dealing with a "one man band" rather than a large organisation and these things are par for the course. It must be a nice problem to have, assuming the delay is due to you having too much business.

I would rather wait and have an excellent product, than have a rushed product sooner.

schlepcycling

drlodge wrote:

Its not a problem for me, I understand I'm dealing with a "one man band" rather than a large organisation and these things are par for the course. It must be a nice problem to have, assuming the delay is due to you having too much business.

I would rather wait and have an excellent product, than have a rushed product sooner.

I agree, I waited about 6 weeks for my wheels from Malcolm but they are excellent wheels and well worth the wait.

cycleclinic

Actually part of the delay has been caused by out of round Pacenti SL23 rims. Spend three hour this afternoon trying to get one wheel right and I am having to rebuild anyway. Started the front and the rim is fresh from the distributor and had a missing bit of anodising so that had to come apart and a new rim went on. so yes alot of work and alot of problem rims from particular brand. That happens a few times and you have a week delay very quickly. Add to that the number I have had back due to rattling plate at the weld join and those wheels have had to be rebuilt.... it goes on. apparantly Pacenti are changing the factory there rims are made at and the samples are much better. Fingers crossed this time wasting mess will resolve it self soon.

drlodge

Argh, that's not so good. And you take the hit on time and costs...

My wheels have arrived, apparently, hope to try then out on Sunday!

ugo.santalucia

Building wheels for beer has some advantages

drlodge

drlodge wrote:

Argh, that's not so good. And you take the hit on time and costs...

My wheels have arrived, apparently, hope to try then out on Sunday!

Wheels are here, however with wrong (Shimano) freehub & pads...Malcolm is on it though, sending me a Campag freehub/pads. Very happy with his response.

The rims look very nice, and he supplies a set of VAR tyre levers with his wheels

lostboysaint

thecycleclinic wrote:

Actually part of the delay has been caused by out of round Pacenti SL23 rims. Spend three hour this afternoon trying to get one wheel right and I am having to rebuild anyway. Started the front and the rim is fresh from the distributor and had a missing bit of anodising so that had to come apart and a new rim went on. so yes alot of work and alot of problem rims from particular brand. That happens a few times and you have a week delay very quickly. Add to that the number I have had back due to rattling plate at the weld join and those wheels have had to be rebuilt.... it goes on. apparantly Pacenti are changing the factory there rims are made at and the samples are much better. Fingers crossed this time wasting mess will resolve it self soon.

So having plugged them instead of Velocity for exactly that reason you're now saying they're as bad

Now riding two sets of the Vs. A23s on the road bike and Blunt 35 on the full sus MTB and they're very definitely round, rattle free and haven't required so much as a spoke key in terms of attention.

term1te

I've recently gone Campagnolo 11 speed, and want to build some tubeless ready wheels to go on the new bike. I built up a set of tubeless wheels for a Shimano 10 speed bike using Novatec lightweight hubs with Stan's 340 rims, and really like them. I can swap the front wheel over, but need an 11 speed rear freehub. I want to keep the 10 speed hub for use on the 10 speed bike, so don't want to only change the freehub. I could build a like for like with a Novatec F428SB-SL-11 hub with a Stan's 340 rim. However, could I do better? And if so how? The current rear wheel is 28 spoke 2 cross and I'd probably go for a similar set up on any new wheel. I'm not that heavy and am blessed with Swiss mountains to climb, so the lighter the better. To match the front wheel, I'd prefer a fairly plain black rim and hub. Thanks

drlodge

Term1te wrote:

I've recently gone Campagnolo 11 speed, and want to build some tubeless ready wheels to go on the new bike. I built up a set of tubeless wheels for a Shimano 10 speed bike using Novatec lightweight hubs with Stan's 340 rims, and really like them. I can swap the front wheel over, but need an 11 speed rear freehub. I want to keep the 10 speed hub for use on the 10 speed bike, so don't want to only change the freehub. I could build a like for like with a Novatec F428SB-SL-11 hub with a Stan's 340 rim. However, could I do better? And if so how? The current rear wheel is 28 spoke 2 cross and I'd probably go for a similar set up on any new wheel. I'm not that heavy and am blessed with Swiss mountains to climb, so the lighter the better. To match the front wheel, I'd prefer a fairly plain black rim and hub. Thanks

Something like this? http://thecycleclinic.co.uk/collections/road-rim-brake-wheelsets/products/handbuilt-borg22-tubeless-compatible-clincher-wheelset

They're quite similar to my RR440 rimmed wheels, but the Kinlin rim is wider (better) and the hubs are cheaper (but probably just as good as my Hope hubs). i.e Kinlin XR22T/RT rim on Miche Primato hubs and Sapim race spokes.

cycleclinic

If you want light then those stans rims are as light as they get. The ryde pulse sprint rims are as light a tad wider but tubeless tyres could be very tight. The hubs are also light and cheapish. If you like what you have them why not built it again. You cant build lighter for the money. The ryde rim is stiffer though. Having said that i do think climbing wheels are better being stiff than lighter. There is a balance.

As for the pacenti rims i have my suspisions as to why there are so many problems rims that come my way. I wont aire as i dont have proof but there is a new batch about to arrive and if i am right those fustrations i have at present will vanish. The problems i am sure are temporary. This is not a strada archetype thing. The a23 is more fustrating. When i used them i spent a good while trying to fish swarf out and they were round if you did not count the bump at the weld. Also some rims went wobbley at 1200n. A really poor rim when i tried it. Maybe it has improved. The blunt 35's though are ace.

gabriel959

apreading wrote:

apreading wrote:

This may not be the correct place for this enquiry, but hopefully its a simple one and I know the people who know check this thread - so:

On my Prolite Revo disc wheels, the front hub is a Novatec 771 I believe. It came with end caps for QR and a two piece end cap for thru axle. The thru axle end caps are in at the moment and I cannot get them out. The hub has started squeaking at low speed, initially just when pushing the bike into/out of the garage but now when I am slow climbing hills too. I have seen people say that you need to put a dab of grease on the rubber seal on the end caps, but I cant get them out to do this, and if I did, I dont know if I could get them back in again.

I have only tried pulling by hand at the moment. Should I try with pliers? Do I need a tool to do it, or a screwdriver from the other end and a hammer? And if/when I do get them out, do I just place a wooden block over the cap and hit with a hammer to get it back in without marking it?

The squeak is now infuriating, so I am hoping the grease trick will sort it - it worked on the rear 772 when I first got the wheels - this screws on/off so was alot easier.

thanks for any advice!

Panic over - I resorted to the LBS... The mechanic got them out with a screwdriver, levering them out. They were really stiff though, he said. Even he had trouble getting them back in though - tried with a screwdriver at first and couldnt get them in properly, then he had an idea and used a socket from a socket set to push the outer ring in straight - this is a top tip in my opinion! Good thing was that he let me watch so that I will be able to do it myself next time!

Hi apreading,

Trying to put the thruaxle caps at the front and they fall off very easily so I suspect I am doing something wrong, could you tell me how to put the caps on the front hub?

much appreciated

apreading

gabriel959 wrote:

apreading wrote:

apreading wrote:

This may not be the correct place for this enquiry, but hopefully its a simple one and I know the people who know check this thread - so:

On my Prolite Revo disc wheels, the front hub is a Novatec 771 I believe. It came with end caps for QR and a two piece end cap for thru axle. The thru axle end caps are in at the moment and I cannot get them out. The hub has started squeaking at low speed, initially just when pushing the bike into/out of the garage but now when I am slow climbing hills too. I have seen people say that you need to put a dab of grease on the rubber seal on the end caps, but I cant get them out to do this, and if I did, I dont know if I could get them back in again.

I have only tried pulling by hand at the moment. Should I try with pliers? Do I need a tool to do it, or a screwdriver from the other end and a hammer? And if/when I do get them out, do I just place a wooden block over the cap and hit with a hammer to get it back in without marking it?

The squeak is now infuriating, so I am hoping the grease trick will sort it - it worked on the rear 772 when I first got the wheels - this screws on/off so was alot easier.

thanks for any advice!

Panic over - I resorted to the LBS... The mechanic got them out with a screwdriver, levering them out. They were really stiff though, he said. Even he had trouble getting them back in though - tried with a screwdriver at first and couldnt get them in properly, then he had an idea and used a socket from a socket set to push the outer ring in straight - this is a top tip in my opinion! Good thing was that he let me watch so that I will be able to do it myself next time!

Hi apreading,

Trying to put the thruaxle caps at the front and they fall off very easily so I suspect I am doing something wrong, could you tell me how to put the caps on the front hub?

much appreciated

Have you put the ring onto the end caps before inserting?

You see the ring with the endcaps in the pic here:



With those on, I couldnt insert the end cap no matter how hard I tried - so was glad to see how the LBS did it.

I think there was a different Novatec hub that they just fall out - saw a youtube video about it but on the 771 that isnt supposed to be the case. Unless there is just massive variation in the manufacture?

gabriel959

Thanks for the quick reply,

On the picture that you posted the front thru axle adapters are in 2 pieces, a bigger thinner one which I called the ring and then the end cap. Which one should go first? The ring or should I mount one on the other first before inserting?

gabriel959

Ok, I think I have got them in but the end caps are a tiny bit loose inside, is that how it is meant to be? I can now hold the wheel from the end cap and it wont fall off but I am a bit apprehensive that they are only there pressing against the wheel, and why is there some play? The rear one hasn't got any :S I am very surprised there are no instructions with the wheels, as this is not very clear.

apreading

Yes - I would have liked some instructions! There are a couple of youtube vids by Prolite showing how easy it is to switch the end caps by hand - fat chance of that! I was surprised that even knowing the novatec hub used, there dont seem to be any instructions anywhere on that either...

I put the two parts together and tried to press them in as one. The bike shop did the same but with more success! The ring is snug against the hub shell and holds the end cap on, while allowing it to rotate I think. I dont think the end cap feels what I would call 'loose' in mine but cant check until tomorrow - There is probably some movement but I guess that depends what you call loose. I would not think that a problem though, because when you do up the thru axle bolt I think the fork dropouts press the end cap in against the hub/bearing so that should remove any play.