Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

jdee84

does anyone know if the superstar arc rims are rebadged kinlins?

MikeBrew

jdee84 wrote:

does anyone know if the superstar arc rims are rebadged kinlins?

Yes they are.

Paul 8v

Having read the article again, it says the Archetypes have improved in quality now (Should have read it properly!)

Is there any advantage to the "Hard anodised" grey ones? If they keep the grey on the braking track where the others don't then great. If not I'll default to black

ugo.santalucia

Paul 8v wrote:

Is there any advantage to the "Hard anodised" grey ones? If they keep the grey on the braking track where the others don't then great. If not I'll default to black

No advantage, same thing

veronese68

MikeBrew wrote:

jdee84 wrote:

does anyone know if the superstar arc rims are rebadged kinlins?

Yes they are.

Really? I thought they wouldn't confirm it either way. Have they said more since this?

MikeBrew wrote:

MikeBrew wrote:

k3vinjam3s wrote:

So what was superstars response. They have advised me of a 100kg weight limit on these too which is reassuring.

Got a reply from Superstar today and was advised that these are indeed the Kinlin rim. They also reiterated the 100KG rider weight guide.

OK, so it seems that despite the young lad on the phone at Superstar telling me that these are Kinlin rims, the bottom line is that SS won't officially confirm or deny that that information is accurate. It also appears that all their wheel-sets are rated to a 90KG rider weight limit rather than the 100KG that I was told by the lad on the phone. Luckily for me the lower rider weight limit isn't an issue, in my case.
Anyway, apologies if I passed on any inaccurate information.

MikeBrew

Paul 8v wrote:

Having read the article again, it says the Archetypes have improved in quality now (Should have read it properly!)

Is there any advantage to the "Hard anodised" grey ones? If they keep the grey on the braking track where the others don't then great. If not I'll default to black

Hard anodizing is a subtly different finishing process, done at a higher voltage and different temperature to normal anodizing. It results in a significantly thicker and harder wear layer. Basically this will make your brake track last longer, as well as look better.
The black non hard anodized Archetypes lose the colour from the brake tracks really quite quickly, and not always uniformly.
Of course, if and when the hard anodizing wears away, the contrast between it and the metal below is less noticeable than of the black rims, which also helps them look tidier for longer.

Just Google hard anodizing vs anodizing for more detail.

jdee84

What are the hubs like on those superstar wheels would it be foolish to use them in winter?

ugo.santalucia

I have a pair of H plus Son TB 14 rims hard anodised grey... the rear brake track coat lasted about 100 miles, the front about 200, I can't say they are any different from the black.

I used to have a pair of Ambrosio Nemesis hard anodised and in those the coat lasted a fair bit longer, say around 1000 miles for the rear and a bit more for the front

The hard anodised coat offered by Mavic Exalith rims is a way more durable one

MikeBrew

jdee84 wrote:

What are the hubs like on those superstar wheels would it be foolish to use them in winter?

The Volta hubs are quite substantial and fitted with high quality SKF bearings. That said, my Arc31's haven't seen much rain, despite BST's best efforts. :roll:

MikeBrew

Veronese68 wrote:

MikeBrew wrote:

jdee84 wrote:

does anyone know if the superstar arc rims are rebadged kinlins?

Yes they are.

Really? I thought they wouldn't confirm it either way. Have they said more since this?

MikeBrew wrote:

MikeBrew wrote:

k3vinjam3s wrote:

So what was superstars response. They have advised me of a 100kg weight limit on these too which is reassuring.

Got a reply from Superstar today and was advised that these are indeed the Kinlin rim. They also reiterated the 100KG rider weight guide.

31st May
OK, so it seems that despite the young lad on the phone at Superstar telling me that these are Kinlin rims, the bottom line is that SS won't officially confirm or deny that that information is accurate. It also appears that all their wheel-sets are rated to a 90KG rider weight limit rather than the 100KG that I was told by the lad on the phone. Luckily for me the lower rider weight limit isn't an issue, in my case.
Anyway, apologies if I passed on any inaccurate information.

Well yes. Quite a lot has happened since the 31st May - including us voting to leave the EU.

Paul 8v

Thanks guys. Sounds like black is the way forward as that would be my first choice. One more question. ..

For light pannier duties, cack roads and occasionally light offroad, would I want 32 hole rims on an archetype?

I weigh 72kgs and the bike loaded up (it's a bit of a unit) is about 25kg max so say 100kg. I was thinking some DT double butted or similar for spokes with brass nipples

Paul 8v

Oh, and hubs. 105 or Miche? Similar price, after reliable more than anything and preferably silent freewheel

ugo.santalucia

Paul 8v wrote:

Thanks guys. Sounds like black is the way forward as that would be my first choice. One more question. ..

For light pannier duties, cack roads and occasionally light offroad, would I want 32 hole rims on an archetype?

I weigh 72kgs and the bike loaded up (it's a bit of a unit) is about 25kg max so say 100kg. I was thinking some DT double butted or similar for spokes with brass nipples

If you really carry 25 Kg of load :shock: then go for 36 holes... each extra spoke is 8 grams, so at 32 grams, the extra strength is totally worth it.

I prefer cartridge bearings, as they are easier to replace, but for load angular contact like the 105 are more suited... up to you

Paul 8v

Thanks Ugo, that's the bike and all the gear that come to 25kg. Halford bike plus guards plus panniers, lights, heavy tyres, slime tubes etc. It's a lump. Great when I get on the fast bike though!

I will be upgrading to something a bit more svelte at some point as it is a bit of a killer some days. Hence the decent wheels so I can swap them over.

mamil314

Do heavy tyres really count against weight limit as they have direct contact to ground and are not suspended on skewers and hub

Paul 8v

I suppose not really!

thebadgerboy1982

I've got problems with my wheelset!
currently riding a new style cervelo s3 with clearance for a 25mm tyre. I've got pacenti sl23, 20 front and 24 rear bitex lite hubs and sapim cx ray spokes. at 100 psi, my schwalbe one 23mm clinchers come up just over 25mm.

the problem is that I've got quite a bit of tyre rub against the chainstay near the bottom bracket area. so much that i can't ride the tyres at any pressure above 60psi.

is this due to the tyre being slightly above the 25mm clearance or due to a flexy wheel due to the low spoke count? I'm about 75kg.

my other question is about wide rim carbon clinchers. many have low spoke counts and wide internal rim widths meaning tyres sit wide on the rim. would i have the same issue with these wheels or would the stiff rim prevent tyre rubbing at the chainstay?

thanks
ross

ugo.santalucia

thebadgerboy1982 wrote:

I've got problems with my wheelset!
currently riding a new style cervelo s3 with clearance for a 25mm tyre. I've got pacenti sl23, 20 front and 24 rear bitex lite hubs and sapim cx ray spokes. at 100 psi, my schwalbe one 23mm clinchers come up just over 25mm.

the problem is that I've got quite a bit of tyre rub against the chainstay near the bottom bracket area. so much that i can't ride the tyres at any pressure above 60psi.

is this due to the tyre being slightly above the 25mm clearance or due to a flexy wheel due to the low spoke count? I'm about 75kg.

my other question is about wide rim carbon clinchers. many have low spoke counts and wide internal rim widths meaning tyres sit wide on the rim. would i have the same issue with these wheels or would the stiff rim prevent tyre rubbing at the chainstay?

thanks
ross

Cervelo have crazy tight clearances at the chainstay, it might well be that 25 on wide rims is a combination that only works with a mega stiff wheel. Not sure why the problem only shows at high pressure. The tyre size is the same at 100 PSI or 60 PSI

thebadgerboy1982

thanks for the info ugo. I previously had a set of H+son archetypes with a 23 mm tyre and 28 spokes at the rear, i can't remember it causing any issues. could it be the low spoke count on the pacenti rims causing it? It mostly happens when I'm climbing or out of the saddle.

cycleclinic

The sl23 is 3mm wider internally that is why you get rub. The ones are a wide tyre for there size. Other tyres are smaller. Conti 4 seasons is narrower one for example.
24 spoke v2 sl23 does not make stiff wheel but flex at the stays should be kinimal but if your clearance is minimal then rub it will.

The superstar arc3q is the kinlin xr31t. Good rim.

H plus son grey rims are not hard anodised anh kore. They have not been for long time. They are simply anodised.

Some carbon wheels are stiffer than others you may or may not get the same problem.

Your solution is tubs, buy a narrowish tubular wheelset and use 22/23mm tubs on them for training conti sprinters and for racing the gp4000sII.

thebadgerboy1982

thanks,
id looked at the kinlin xr31t but it also has a wide internal rim width, would a tyre come up to wide on the rim?

cycleclinic

all tyres on a wider rim sit wider. That is why I have suggested tubs for you. a 22mm tub is perfect for your bike. Stop messing around with clinchers and tubes on narrow rims.

njmartyn08

hi guys, sorry to jump on to this post (I've read through a lot of it but am non the wiser!)
Am looking for new wheels but struggling to find off the shelf ones which cover: Tubeless/Disc brake/support my weight (110kg).
So i've spoken to Strada who have recommended the following:
Hope Pro4 hub, DT Swiss R460 Disc 23mm wide, Sapim CX Ray spokes.
comes in a 1700g and around £500.
i had ordered Mavik Kysrium's but they're out of stock for a month now so wanted tubeless wheels instead, is this a good setup? will it be strong/fast compared to my stock wheels?

ugo.santalucia

njmartyn08 wrote:

hi guys, sorry to jump on to this post (I've read through a lot of it but am non the wiser!)
Am looking for new wheels but struggling to find off the shelf ones which cover: Tubeless/Disc brake/support my weight (110kg).
So i've spoken to Strada who have recommended the following:
Hope Pro4 hub, DT Swiss R460 Disc 23mm wide, Sapim CX Ray spokes.
comes in a 1700g and around £500.
i had ordered Mavik Kysrium's but they're out of stock for a month now so wanted tubeless wheels instead, is this a good setup? will it be strong/fast compared to my stock wheels?

I am surprised they advise CX ray spokes... they offer very marginal aero benefits and a bit of weight saving, but they roughly speaking add 120 GB pounds to the cost of a pair of wheels... I would try to get a quote for the same set with Sapim race spokes (or even better Sapim Strong).
There is some evidence that CX-ray exceed any other spoke in Sapim's range for fatigue life, but these are bench measurments, rather than measurements taken from real world (e.g. lifespan of the spoke in the wheel). In a real scenario, the stiffness of the wheel will increase the spoke lifespan considerably and a wheel built with Sapim Race will be stiffer than the equivalent built with Sapim CX-Ray.

In short... save a few quid and go for round spokes

drlodge

I really do wonder why such people are recommending CX spokes for this kind of wheel...could be ignorance or trying to make more £££s at the customers expense. I simply wouldn't deal with people who make such stupid recommendations.

Ugo, are the Sapim Strong like the Alpine 3s? Your rear wheel build using Alpine 3s on the drive side with D-light on the NDS seems like a sensible idea, however this was for road rim wheels, disc wheels may need stronger spokes on the NDS due to the increased torque under braking.

njmartyn08

funny you should say that.... i asked whether the Hope hub 'noise' was that bad and he came back with the following now:
DT Swiss 350 C-Lock front QR or 15/DT Swiss RR511 32mm alloy Disc/Sapim Race Black Spokes

drlodge

Hope freehubs are loud, but that's not a bad thing unless you're trying to pass a horse that is easily spooked.

njmartyn08

drlodge wrote:

Hope freehubs are loud, but that's not a bad thing unless you're trying to pass a horse that is easily spooked.

i like quiet when i'm riding! lol

drlodge

njmartyn08 wrote:

drlodge wrote:

Hope freehubs are loud, but that's not a bad thing unless you're trying to pass a horse that is easily spooked.

i like quiet when i'm riding! lol

They are quiet, as long as you're pedalling!

njmartyn08

i just googled the noise - http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=hop ... ORM=VRDGAR
can't be doing with that!