Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

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  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    tincaman wrote:
    tincaman wrote:
    This is my Prolite Revo rear are the NDS spoke facing the right way, my other bikes are different?
    prolite%20rear%20hub_zps4wt3tmjj.jpg
    Googling around , I've seen the rears laced both ways, is one way more right than the other?

    It really doesn't make any difference, but if it's of any consolation, I build the NDS of a disc wheel just like your PRO lite...

    How do you find those Jagwire rotors?
    left the forum March 2023
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    Ariege cyclist wrote:
    I'm looking at putting a deeper rim on to replace a damaged Chinese carbon one. But once I get to say an 88mm rim (for TT's) the spoke lengths are 223 and 227mm at 2 cross. I don't think 3 cross would work at this small an ERD to go with longer spokes.
    So - can anyone recommend me a supplier of spokes this short? Ideally like butted spokes but maybe this isn't possible in such a short length??
    All help gratefully received.
    Mark.

    They do

    http://www.gingko-feine-veloteile.de/gi ... s-Nipples/
    left the forum March 2023
  • tincaman
    tincaman Posts: 508
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    tincaman wrote:
    tincaman wrote:
    This is my Prolite Revo rear are the NDS spoke facing the right way, my other bikes are different?
    prolite%20rear%20hub_zps4wt3tmjj.jpg
    Googling around , I've seen the rears laced both ways, is one way more right than the other?

    It really doesn't make any difference, but if it's of any consolation, I build the NDS of a disc wheel just like your PRO lite...

    How do you find those Jagwire rotors?
    They are Alpine Evo rotors from Superstar. They have been as good as the discs I had before, I just wanted the colour to match the frame
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    I do all my wheels asymmetric in the lacing in other words the NDS rear is laced opposite to the DS and the front NDS is laced like the rear DS. this technically is the right way round but lacing symmetrically like rim brake wheels are done traditionally probably makes little difference. I do it the same way for all wheels so when I do a disc brake wheel I dont have to think.

    It is to do with braking put far more load on the spokes than pedalling unless you are a track sprinter and prone to 2kw outbursts. So you lace both sides to handle torque.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • apreading
    apreading Posts: 4,535
    This may not be the correct place for this enquiry, but hopefully its a simple one and I know the people who know check this thread - so:

    On my Prolite Revo disc wheels, the front hub is a Novatec 771 I believe. It came with end caps for QR and a two piece end cap for thru axle. The thru axle end caps are in at the moment and I cannot get them out. The hub has started squeaking at low speed, initially just when pushing the bike into/out of the garage but now when I am slow climbing hills too. I have seen people say that you need to put a dab of grease on the rubber seal on the end caps, but I cant get them out to do this, and if I did, I dont know if I could get them back in again.

    I have only tried pulling by hand at the moment. Should I try with pliers? Do I need a tool to do it, or a screwdriver from the other end and a hammer? And if/when I do get them out, do I just place a wooden block over the cap and hit with a hammer to get it back in without marking it?

    The squeak is now infuriating, so I am hoping the grease trick will sort it - it worked on the rear 772 when I first got the wheels - this screws on/off so was alot easier.

    thanks for any advice!
  • apreading
    apreading Posts: 4,535
    apreading wrote:
    This may not be the correct place for this enquiry, but hopefully its a simple one and I know the people who know check this thread - so:

    On my Prolite Revo disc wheels, the front hub is a Novatec 771 I believe. It came with end caps for QR and a two piece end cap for thru axle. The thru axle end caps are in at the moment and I cannot get them out. The hub has started squeaking at low speed, initially just when pushing the bike into/out of the garage but now when I am slow climbing hills too. I have seen people say that you need to put a dab of grease on the rubber seal on the end caps, but I cant get them out to do this, and if I did, I dont know if I could get them back in again.

    I have only tried pulling by hand at the moment. Should I try with pliers? Do I need a tool to do it, or a screwdriver from the other end and a hammer? And if/when I do get them out, do I just place a wooden block over the cap and hit with a hammer to get it back in without marking it?

    The squeak is now infuriating, so I am hoping the grease trick will sort it - it worked on the rear 772 when I first got the wheels - this screws on/off so was alot easier.

    thanks for any advice!


    Panic over - I resorted to the LBS... The mechanic got them out with a screwdriver, levering them out. They were really stiff though, he said. Even he had trouble getting them back in though - tried with a screwdriver at first and couldnt get them in properly, then he had an idea and used a socket from a socket set to push the outer ring in straight - this is a top tip in my opinion! Good thing was that he let me watch so that I will be able to do it myself next time!
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    LBS = WIN
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • dork_knight
    dork_knight Posts: 405
    I thought I would ask in this thread as there's a lot of knowledge.

    I had a PowerTap G3 built on an Ambrosio Rim, the rim failed so I had the PowerTap built on the Pacenti SL23 v2 with a Shimano Freehub and a 10 Speed Cassette already attached.

    I've just pulled off the Shimano Freehub and put on a Campagnolo Freehub with 11 Speed Cassette, this was already installed on the freehub as I was using it on the old build.... but now it appears the cassette is in contact with the spokes so it rubs against them.

    Any ideas what the cause is and how to resolve it?

    I'll ring the shop next week but hoping for a bit of knowledge before I do.

    Thank You
    The path of my life is strewn with cowpats from the devil's own satanic herd.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    Dork Knight wrote:
    I thought I would ask in this thread as there's a lot of knowledge.

    I had a PowerTap G3 built on an Ambrosio Rim, the rim failed so I had the PowerTap built on the Pacenti SL23 v2 with a Shimano Freehub and a 10 Speed Cassette already attached.

    I've just pulled off the Shimano Freehub and put on a Campagnolo Freehub with 11 Speed Cassette, this was already installed on the freehub as I was using it on the old build.... but now it appears the cassette is in contact with the spokes so it rubs against them.

    Any ideas what the cause is and how to resolve it?

    I'll ring the shop next week but hoping for a bit of knowledge before I do.

    Thank You

    Have you checked the axle is fitted with the spacer? Sometimes it stays with the old freehub when you remove it. It's about 10 mm wide and fits on the axle and inside the inner freehub bearing
    left the forum March 2023
  • dork_knight
    dork_knight Posts: 405
    Brilliant ~ That was it, it was inside the other hub.

    I had fallen for the red rubber seal getting stuck in there before but not this one.

    Thank you very much.
    The path of my life is strewn with cowpats from the devil's own satanic herd.
  • clovis
    clovis Posts: 14
    Hi

    I have a pair of Dura Ace c24 wheels, the rims are pretty much shot now and rather than scrap them totally what I would like to do is use the hubs to build a set of 50's. Is this doable ? worthwhile ? and if so what rims are recommended ? Many thanks
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    clovis wrote:
    Hi

    I have a pair of Dura Ace c24 wheels, the rims are pretty much shot now and rather than scrap them totally what I would like to do is use the hubs to build a set of 50's. Is this doable ? worthwhile ? and if so what rims are recommended ? Many thanks

    Doable but not easy. Farsport and others sell custom drilled rims, so you can get the 18/20 holes rims you need. Then you need to find a builder who has an algorythm of some description to calculate the spoke length you need for those hubs
    left the forum March 2023
  • ariege_cyclist
    ariege_cyclist Posts: 98
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Ariege cyclist wrote:
    I'm looking at putting a deeper rim on to replace a damaged Chinese carbon one. But once I get to say an 88mm rim (for TT's) the spoke lengths are 223 and 227mm at 2 cross. I don't think 3 cross would work at this small an ERD to go with longer spokes.
    So - can anyone recommend me a supplier of spokes this short? Ideally like butted spokes but maybe this isn't possible in such a short length??
    All help gratefully received.
    Mark.

    They do

    http://www.gingko-feine-veloteile.de/gi ... s-Nipples/

    Many thanks Ugo that looks like a great source for spokes.
    Mark.
  • ariege_cyclist
    ariege_cyclist Posts: 98
    thecycleclinic wrote:
    you need a 28 spoke wheel for 3x to work anyway. CX-rays are available in 222mm and 226mm length with the distributor (I have just logged on and checked) but there is low stock of the 222mm lengths though.

    No sure who stocks length this short. I think I have a few but not enough of a wheel and in silver. Planet X might have them and starbike might also.

    Thanks for the help.
    I've always been a bit wary about CX-rays on the DS of a wheel, am I being overly careful? Does it matter on such a deep rimmed wheel build?

    Mark.
  • clovis
    clovis Posts: 14
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    clovis wrote:
    Hi

    I have a pair of Dura Ace c24 wheels, the rims are pretty much shot now and rather than scrap them totally what I would like to do is use the hubs to build a set of 50's. Is this doable ? worthwhile ? and if so what rims are recommended ? Many thanks

    Doable but not easy. Farsport and others sell custom drilled rims, so you can get the 18/20 holes rims you need. Then you need to find a builder who has an algorythm of some description to calculate the spoke length you need for those hubs[/qu

    Thanks for the info, sounds like it could be more trouble than it's worth !
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    clovis wrote:
    Thanks for the info, sounds like it could be more trouble than it's worth !

    In the past, when we looked at the numbers, it did seem that way, but things change and there seem to be more straight pull spokes to be had in units rather than boxes on the market. If you can get the spokes for say three quid a pop, thart's 120 pounds in spokes, add a couple of hundred in rims from a reputable Chinese vendor and even if you were to pay another 80 for the build, you would get a pair of carbon wheels on Dura ace hubs for 400 pounds
    left the forum March 2023
  • hazy_day
    hazy_day Posts: 84
    Thinking of getting a set of wheels built on Kinlin XC279 rims using Dura Ace 9000 hubs. Any thoughts from the wheel builders out there on spoke count,stiffness etc. Thanks.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    hazy day wrote:
    Thinking of getting a set of wheels built on Kinlin XC279 rims using Dura Ace 9000 hubs. Any thoughts from the wheel builders out there on spoke count,stiffness etc. Thanks.

    24/28 holes will suit most riders... unless you are in the 90 Kg+ bracket, then 28/32 would be best.
    left the forum March 2023
  • clovis
    clovis Posts: 14
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    clovis wrote:
    Thanks for the info, sounds like it could be more trouble than it's worth !

    In the past, when we looked at the numbers, it did seem that way, but things change and there seem to be more straight pull spokes to be had in units rather than boxes on the market. If you can get the spokes for say three quid a pop, thart's 120 pounds in spokes, add a couple of hundred in rims from a reputable Chinese vendor and even if you were to pay another 80 for the build, you would get a pair of carbon wheels on Dura ace hubs for 400 pounds


    Thank you for that Ugo, definitely sounds worth doing. I'm sure this been done to death but which vendor prompts the most positives ? I think I'll have a crack at this.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    finally managed to build a set of FLO 30... very nice rims indeed

    DSC_5175_zpsb0pqp3uh.jpg

    DSC_5177_zpsshbnlgt5.jpg
    left the forum March 2023
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    uhmm they look good.

    clovis, I have never found a way of working out spoke length for straight pull builds. I do a few but it is always trail and error to get the lengths right. However only one side is crossed so it is more doable than not. You will succeed if you have a stock of spokes and a experience/patience.

    the kinlins would be fine in 20F/24r if built properly but 24F/28r is a safe bet.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    finally managed to build a set of FLO 30... very nice rims indeed
    This is unfortunate timing for you to tell us, what with them being priced in dollars. :lol:

    I was tempted to get some for my next handbuilts but had convinced myself that at 30mm the aero benefit vs any other 30mm rim was very much on the 'marginal' side of gains.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    TimothyW wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    finally managed to build a set of FLO 30... very nice rims indeed
    This is unfortunate timing for you to tell us, what with them being priced in dollars. :lol:

    I was tempted to get some for my next handbuilts but had convinced myself that at 30mm the aero benefit vs any other 30mm rim was very much on the 'marginal' side of gains.

    Indeed... I am more interested in the quality and finish of the rims... they are exceptionally round to start with, which seems obvious, but many rims are not. It means that in order to make a round wheel you don't have to compromise on the tension balance. The price to pay is that they are on the heavy side, 560 grams each is on the heavy side of things, but FLO's phylosophy is quite clear... they are 100% committed to aerodynamic gains, even if that comes at the expense of weight
    left the forum March 2023
  • Camcycle1974
    Camcycle1974 Posts: 1,356
    Interesting piece in The Cyclist this month which suggests that in most cases aero trumps weight every time, even at a reasonable gradient of 5%. Light, shallow rims would only be a significant benefit in high mountains it would seem.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    Camcycle1974 wrote:
    Interesting piece in The Cyclist this month which suggests that in most cases aero trumps weight every time, even at a reasonable gradient of 5%. Light, shallow rims would only be a significant benefit in high mountains it would seem.

    That of course depends at which speed you go up a 5% slope... PROs do around 20-22 mph on a > 2 miles climb at 5%... I can do 12-13 mph at best for the same conditions and many struggle to do 10 mph. As you go under 10 mph aerodynamic becomes irrelevant
    left the forum March 2023
  • Gibbo3771
    Gibbo3771 Posts: 145
    After about 1k miles my rear Tiagra hub started to show play and decided to just build myself some proper strong wheels for commuting, given that I weight 225lb's, I needed something that could withstand my fat ass.

    Rear LX Hub.
    img_201606180_165553_1024.jpg

    Front DMR Revolver, 32h, cartridge bearing, "infinite" hub.
    img_201606180_165703_1024.jpg

    Trusty DP18 Rim, which has been withstanding potholes for nearly 3k miles without a hitch. Does good on stairs as well.
    img_201606180_165633.jpg

    Random "HOW DID THAT NOT PUNCTURE?!" pic.
    img_201606180_165932_1024.jpg

    Conclusion? Custom built wheels allow you to build something you can't normally get. It also means the LBS has some sort of responsibility when it comes to problems, such as broken spokes, off center/true and other little nitpicks that can occur with certain hub/rim combinations when factors are benefited in.
  • hazy_day
    hazy_day Posts: 84
    One last question.I have seen Ryde Pulse comp rims on PX in 28 hole count.How would these build on Dura Ace hubs for an 85Kg rider. Thanks.
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    they'd be fine.

    Been saying aero trumps weight for a while and got flamed several times but no one believes me. Then a mag says it and people say oh it might be true.

    Physics wins over received wisdom every time fact.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • Paul 8v
    Paul 8v Posts: 5,458
    What are the current thoughts on H plus son archetypes? Looking at one website they are saying they no longer offer them as a build due to the newer ones going out of true?

    Alternatives for a similar price seem to be the velocity a23 and the DT Swiss 440. Both of which look good but I don't know enough about them. DTs aren't 23mm wide which seems to be the only downside with these I can see.

    Your thoughts are much appreciated!
    Road
    MTB
    NEW Cross
    Track/Grass Track/Winter bike
  • vpnikolov
    vpnikolov Posts: 568
    I am considering a set from Wheelsmiths and wanted to get some opinions on their in-house hubs. Are they any good?

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