Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

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  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    Tjm208 wrote:
    Both builders recommended them for durability given my weight- are they flawed?

    I think Hope are more robust hubs for your weight. Bear in mind the toolset to replace bearings in CK hubs cost as much as the hubs themselves and most shops don't have it. Hope are more DIY friendly and seeing they are UK made, all spares are ready available
    left the forum March 2023
  • Tjm208
    Tjm208 Posts: 14
    Ah that's helpful, thanks. I'm probably moving to Australia at Christmas, likely permanetly, do hope also need their own kit or is it a bit more universal?
  • lostboysaint
    lostboysaint Posts: 4,250
    Hope are distributed in Australia.
    Trail fun - Transition Bandit
    Road - Wilier Izoard Centaur/Cube Agree C62 Disc
    Allround - Cotic Solaris
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    paul.lit7 wrote:
    Hi

    just bought a super six evo 105 with shimano rs11 and love the bike,
    i was wonder what your thoughts were on a wheelset upgrade as every review i read slams these wheels,

    im not sure if they are good or bad as this is my first proper road bike,

    thanks for any advice

    Well I had their predecessors the RS10 on my first proper road bike back in 2007, and they are still going strong. No cracks anywhere around the spoke holes, still true, plenty of brake track left / wear indicators still visible.
    I've replaced the bearings once, lubed the freehub internals a couple of times, and had to replace a rear spoke which snapped having been chewed by an out of alignment rear mech.

    So I'd take all the reviews with a pinch of salt and just ride the thing...
  • Fat-Boy-Roubaix
    Fat-Boy-Roubaix Posts: 413
    Still not got a clue about these, but my Fulcrum Zero rear is a goner.

    So suggestions please 185lb rider. Want sealed cartridge bearing - quite like my 240s on my disc bike. Want it to be tubeless specific rims. Not sure whether to just get a rear and keep the zero on the front either. Single rear £200-350 wheelset £300-500. Most of all easy serviceable low maintence hub, and easy to replace rims
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    I could make lots of money buy suggesting to people have these CK R45 hubs they are brilliant. I dont though they are expensive, costly to maintain (tools) and do the job of a hub no better than a Miche Primato. Hope are a good alternative but at more than twice but you do get a lighter hub and slightly fancier freehub spring mechanism. CK R45 hubs exist for the same reason as top end high fi does. Most can't tell the difference between top end hi fi sound and something more mid range in there car or living room but that is not the point. They exist because they can and CK hub are a marvelous pointlessly engineered hub. That does not make them better in the same way a rolex does not tell the time any better than my more humdrum watch. They both tell the time and do so reliably. CK R45 hubs, Hope mono mini's and even Miche all do the job of a hub very well. As the price goes down weight goes up by 120g in total. That is the difference between them.

    If you want to spend £500+ on hubs then go with royce they are pretty and easy to service. They also only 120g heavier than the CK hubs. Royce are the expetion to the weight vs price rule. I like outliers.

    185lbs is not that heavy. I am only a couple of kilo's lighter (depending on how much stuff I have in my back pocket tonight I had alot) and I ride 24 spoke rear wheels without issue. Are you saying your fulcrums are finsihed due to being worn or that they have failed?

    You find easy to maintain hubs from Miche and Hope to be fair to Hope. Easy to replace rims and tubeless compatible means something not expensive like Kinlin's offerings or DT Swiss R460. the deeper the rim the lower the spoke count can be.
    DT swiss 240 road hubs are expensive and reduce lateral wheel stiffness compared to many other hubs. They are not as good therefore as the near perfect design of DT disc brake hubs. Shame the 240's are so expensive and have that near impossible to remove ratchet ring in front of the DS bearing. The last time I tried undoing one I failed and hurt my shoulder trying!
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • Fat-Boy-Roubaix
    Fat-Boy-Roubaix Posts: 413
    The Fulcrum is worn quite badly on the rim and I am cheesed off with the hubs. To be fair to the wheel I don't think my riding suits them, all weather and no clue about maintenance and adjustment. I suppose that may help pick my next wheel..

    I have stuck to Fulcrum 3 & Zero in the past for the two way fit, but always end up with a near perfect front wheel and a knackered rear.
  • Tjm208
    Tjm208 Posts: 14
    Ditto on mine- rims are worn down, hubs still in pretty good nick. Thanks for the info on the Chris kings, I will go for hope then I think, with the deeper rim. Thanks
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Rims wear fact you will be unhappy with every wheel you buy in this case. Campag hubs are really simple to maintain and the the internals can be completely replaced.

    If you cannot maintain these hubs then you cannot maintain any hub simple as that. I suggest you learn the maintance for fulcrum hubs or take them to a good shop for servicing.

    There is no such thing as a fit and forget hub. at some point all hubs need maintance and all rims wear out. At least with a shop built set you can have the rims replaced.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Do you wash the hubs at all if so don't. Fulcrum hubs use the same internals as the chorus and record hubs i use in my own wheels. These only see winter as they are that reliable. Bearing life is long. Ocassionally whip the end caps off pull the bearing out replace the grease and if the cones and bearong cups are pitted replace them too.

    Campagnolo hubs really are the best designed hubs there are. Those that get poor bearing life are doing something wrong. Bearing preload adjustment is very easy and rarely needs doing.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • Fat-Boy-Roubaix
    Fat-Boy-Roubaix Posts: 413
    Rather obviously rim wear I expect and my motivation to not just stick some Factory wheels back on is to get a wheel that the rims can be replaced easily and a hub that is cartridge based as opposed to cup and cone for ease of use for me. I am pretty good at other thing but mechanic/DIY I am not.

    Also the handbuilts appeal as I don't have to buy two wheels every time a single wheel gets fubared, in fact this is my biggest agitation.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    Fat-Boy-Roubaix wrote:

    Also the handbuilts appeal as I don't have to buy two wheels every time a single wheel gets fubared, in fact this is my biggest agitation.

    That is the main rationale for those like you who spend more miles on the road than sipping a cappuccino. Something minor going wrong in factory wheels might mean a massive outlay and/or a long journey for a repair
    left the forum March 2023
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Kinlin or dt swiss rims then on miche hope or other good hubs.

    For me it is the fronts that wear out first.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    thecycleclinic wrote:

    For me it is the fronts that wear out first.

    But it's only for you...
    left the forum March 2023
  • Fat-Boy-Roubaix
    Fat-Boy-Roubaix Posts: 413
    Having had a look around tempted by the DT Swiss RR440 with Hope Hubs, 24 front 28 back? What sort of weight and price would I be looking at for a set or just a rear? Pretty serviceable easy parts selection?
  • vpnikolov
    vpnikolov Posts: 568
    Has anyone had any experience with the BORG50T wheels from The Cycle Clinic? I am quite tempted to get a tub set built on WI or Royce hubs.

    Oooor.... BORG38 with Dura Ace 9000. :roll:
  • lostboysaint
    lostboysaint Posts: 4,250
    Good. It leaves those of us that are slightly more educated to pick what we like. ;)
    Trail fun - Transition Bandit
    Road - Wilier Izoard Centaur/Cube Agree C62 Disc
    Allround - Cotic Solaris
  • singleton
    singleton Posts: 2,523
    breakingaway89 wrote:
    "I think of factory wheels as racehorses and hand built wheels as camels. Both have their place... decide which you want."
    Agree with this...

    Thats a rather strange statement IMO.

    If a tailored suit and an off the peg suit were the same price - which would you pick?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    Singleton wrote:
    breakingaway89 wrote:
    "I think of factory wheels as racehorses and hand built wheels as camels. Both have their place... decide which you want."
    Agree with this...

    Thats a rather strange statement IMO.

    If a tailored suit and an off the peg suit were the same price - which would you pick?

    He's just trolling the thread, don't bother arguing with him
    left the forum March 2023
  • Camcycle1974
    Camcycle1974 Posts: 1,356
    vpnikolov wrote:
    Has anyone had any experience with the BORG50T wheels from The Cycle Clinic? I am quite tempted to get a tub set built on WI or Royce hubs.

    Oooor.... BORG38 with Dura Ace 9000. :roll:

    It's a bit like buying a set of Farsports wheels (the rims will be Chinese imports but none the worse for that) but with better build quality, choice of components and a full warranty back up in the UK. A win-win as you get a good product at a fair price. I had some Far Sports ones and wish Malcolm had been doing these at the time I bought mine as would definitely have gone to him for a set. Sold them and gone back to alu now due to a few issues I experienced.
  • dinyull
    dinyull Posts: 2,979
    Currently in the process of building a disc winter/commuter and as the most indecisive man on the planet I keep uming and ahing about wheels.

    Trying to keep the spend of the build down so been seeking bargains, but have started to think that a bargain factory wheelset might be a false economy.

    Use for the wheels will be wet weather riding, commuting and occasional off road use so looking for something that could run a 28mm road tyre and a 32mm cx tyre (not at the same time, obvs). Would a set of handbuilt's work out cheaper over the long run than something along the lines of Mavic Aksium, Fulcrum Racing Sport or Cosine Disc?

    Also what spec and price should I be looking at?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    Dinyull wrote:

    Use for the wheels will be wet weather riding, commuting and occasional off road use so looking for something that could run a 28mm road tyre and a 32mm cx tyre (not at the same time, obvs). Would a set of handbuilt's work out cheaper over the long run than something along the lines of Mavic Aksium, Fulcrum Racing Sport or Cosine Disc?

    it's impossible to say what works out cheaper in the long run.. especially not knowing how long is the long run. If you commute > 5000 miles per year it is likely that something bespoke would work out cheaper over the course of 2-3 years... but even there, you need to choose the components wisely.

    That said, if you get the Mavic for 140 quid and the handbuilts for 400 quid, it's unlikely the latter will outlast the former by a factor of 3.

    It's a damn complicated question, ask something simpler.... :lol:
    left the forum March 2023
  • dinyull
    dinyull Posts: 2,979
    Haha, cheers for the response.

    Mileage wise, I don't have the longest commute in the world so with wet/winter weekend miles I'd be looking at 2000-3000 miles a year.

    Budget would be around £300, but could stretch a little.

    I'm in a right pickle at the minute. I don't want a heavy wheelset that's gonna put me off riding in the winter, and need something that will handle a load of abuse and not cost the earth.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    Dinyull wrote:

    I'm in a right pickle at the minute. I don't want a heavy wheelset that's gonna put me off riding in the winter.

    The difference between a light and a heavy wheelset is around a pound, I doubt that will tip the scales towards not riding the bike. I have ridden on studded tyres weighing 1 Kg each for a couple of weeks in Jan-Feb and even that didn't put me off cycling to work. If I only had a Swiss Army Bike of the 1930s weighing 30 Kg I'd probably give it a go and might even enjoy the challenge... my dream is to own an Ordinary bike and ride to work with that, but

    a) the non replicas are horrendously expensive... we are talking 3 grand or so for one

    b) I don't think I have the balls to actually learn to ride one, given nobody can teach me how to...
    left the forum March 2023
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    Fat-Boy-Roubaix wrote:
    Having had a look around tempted by the DT Swiss RR440 with Hope Hubs, 24 front 28 back? What sort of weight and price would I be looking at for a set or just a rear? Pretty serviceable easy parts selection?

    See the thread in my footer...these are 20/28 Hope hubs with RR440 rims. A very nice pair of wheels, built by Ugo. Annoyingly I hit a pot hole and bent the front rim a smidge, there's a slight bulge that won't true out.

    Have got a pair of BORG50 tubeless on order from TCC, Miche hubs.
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • MBCaad8
    MBCaad8 Posts: 127
    drlodge wrote:
    Have got a pair of BORG50 tubeless on order from TCC, Miche hubs.

    Please do report back when you've ridden them for a while - very interested in these.
  • Fat-Boy-Roubaix
    Fat-Boy-Roubaix Posts: 413
    drlodge wrote:
    Fat-Boy-Roubaix wrote:
    Having had a look around tempted by the DT Swiss RR440 with Hope Hubs, 24 front 28 back? What sort of weight and price would I be looking at for a set or just a rear? Pretty serviceable easy parts selection?

    See the thread in my footer...these are 20/28 Hope hubs with RR440 rims. A very nice pair of wheels, built by Ugo. Annoyingly I hit a pot hole and bent the front rim a smidge, there's a slight bulge that won't true out.

    Have got a pair of BORG50 tubeless on order from TCC, Miche hubs.

    Thanks, I think this will be my route to dipping my toes in to some tailor made wheels, although black spokes for me and red hubs. :) Put many miles in to them, had to service the hubs at all?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    Fat-Boy-Roubaix wrote:
    drlodge wrote:
    Fat-Boy-Roubaix wrote:
    Having had a look around tempted by the DT Swiss RR440 with Hope Hubs, 24 front 28 back? What sort of weight and price would I be looking at for a set or just a rear? Pretty serviceable easy parts selection?

    See the thread in my footer...these are 20/28 Hope hubs with RR440 rims. A very nice pair of wheels, built by Ugo. Annoyingly I hit a pot hole and bent the front rim a smidge, there's a slight bulge that won't true out.

    Have got a pair of BORG50 tubeless on order from TCC, Miche hubs.

    Thanks, I think this will be my route to dipping my toes in to some tailor made wheels, although black spokes for me and red hubs. :) Put many miles in to them, had to service the hubs at all?

    If Fat boy stands for fat boy, I would recommend a more substantial rim than the R 440
    left the forum March 2023
  • Fat-Boy-Roubaix
    Fat-Boy-Roubaix Posts: 413
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Fat-Boy-Roubaix wrote:
    drlodge wrote:
    Fat-Boy-Roubaix wrote:
    Having had a look around tempted by the DT Swiss RR440 with Hope Hubs, 24 front 28 back? What sort of weight and price would I be looking at for a set or just a rear? Pretty serviceable easy parts selection?

    See the thread in my footer...these are 20/28 Hope hubs with RR440 rims. A very nice pair of wheels, built by Ugo. Annoyingly I hit a pot hole and bent the front rim a smidge, there's a slight bulge that won't true out.

    Have got a pair of BORG50 tubeless on order from TCC, Miche hubs.

    Thanks, I think this will be my route to dipping my toes in to some tailor made wheels, although black spokes for me and red hubs. :) Put many miles in to them, had to service the hubs at all?

    If Fat boy stands for fat boy, I would recommend a more substantial rim than the R 440
    erm :oops: I'm no weight weenie around 185-87lbs a week off the bike can see me 192lbs!
  • vpnikolov
    vpnikolov Posts: 568
    MBCaad8 wrote:
    drlodge wrote:
    Have got a pair of BORG50 tubeless on order from TCC, Miche hubs.

    Please do report back when you've ridden them for a while - very interested in these.
    I am interested as well!

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