Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

ugo.santalucia

brettjmcc wrote:

Finished the rims tonight, very happy with the look and overall weight (according to my luggage scales); certainly a lot lighter than the Mavic CXP22s that are coming off.

Build is Archetype Anodised on Novatec A291SB with radial DT Revolution and F482SB 2x Revolution NDS and Competition DS

Nice... 8)

motoko

Hi folks,

Building a set of training wheels this month and have novatec hubs with 20& 24 drillings. I have corresponding drilled archetype rims. What spokes / pattern would you recommend for me as a 80kg rider.
Sapim lasers? Race? Something else?

ugo.santalucia

motoko wrote:

Hi folks,

Building a set of training wheels this month and have novatec hubs with 20& 24 drillings. I have corresponding drilled archetype rims. What spokes / pattern would you recommend for me as a 80kg rider.
Sapim lasers? Race? Something else?

Race rear, laser front

motoko

ugo.santalucia wrote:

motoko wrote:

Hi folks,

Building a set of training wheels this month and have novatec hubs with 20& 24 drillings. I have corresponding drilled archetype rims. What spokes / pattern would you recommend for me as a 80kg rider.
Sapim lasers? Race? Something else?

Race rear, laser front

Thanks for the quick reply. Any suggestions on a lasing pattern given the relatively low spoke count?

ugo.santalucia

motoko wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

motoko wrote:

Hi folks,

Building a set of training wheels this month and have novatec hubs with 20& 24 drillings. I have corresponding drilled archetype rims. What spokes / pattern would you recommend for me as a 80kg rider.
Sapim lasers? Race? Something else?

Race rear, laser front

Thanks for the quick reply. Any suggestions on a lasing pattern given the relatively low spoke count?

radial front and 2 cross rear

motoko

ugo.santalucia wrote:

radial front and 2 cross rear

Awesome. Thanks again.

Hopefully this will be my final question. When looking at the database information for the Archetype rims, some of the entries show the rim having a 3mm OCD. I was surprised as it seems like this is a symmetric rim. I was planning on double checking the 595mm ERD using the park tool spoke and caliper method.
Should I account for any offset on these rims in selecting spoke length?

ugo.santalucia

motoko wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

radial front and 2 cross rear

Awesome. Thanks again.

Hopefully this will be my final question. When looking at the database information for the Archetype rims, some of the entries show the rim having a 3mm OCD. I was surprised as it seems like this is a symmetric rim. I was planning on double checking the 595mm ERD using the park tool spoke and caliper method.
Should I account for any offset on these rims in selecting spoke length?

ERD is 593

motoko

ugo.santalucia wrote:

motoko wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

radial front and 2 cross rear

Awesome. Thanks again.

Hopefully this will be my final question. When looking at the database information for the Archetype rims, some of the entries show the rim having a 3mm OCD. I was surprised as it seems like this is a symmetric rim. I was planning on double checking the 595mm ERD using the park tool spoke and caliper method.
Should I account for any offset on these rims in selecting spoke length?

ERD is 593

Cool. From your measurements does the rim have an offset (OCB)?

ugo.santalucia

motoko wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

motoko wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

radial front and 2 cross rear

Awesome. Thanks again.

Hopefully this will be my final question. When looking at the database information for the Archetype rims, some of the entries show the rim having a 3mm OCD. I was surprised as it seems like this is a symmetric rim. I was planning on double checking the 595mm ERD using the park tool spoke and caliper method.
Should I account for any offset on these rims in selecting spoke length?

ERD is 593

Cool. From your measurements does the rim have an offset (OCB)?

No offset

ugo.santalucia

Built the Mavic 819 rims today, with the tyres already fitted (the rim bed is not drilled) to give a more realistic spoke tension. The asymmetric rims are great and give a tension spread of around 100/70 KgF both front (L/R) and rear(R/L) (front hub is Novatec 541, rear is SRAM X9). Fitting the FORE cups is relatively straightforward, although they need Loctite, so it's a bit messy. I have used 14 mm DT swiss brass nipples, against Mavic's advice to use 16 mm ones... I found the 14 are long enough and the square section clears the FORE cup. Spokes are Sapim Race. Road Tyre fit on these rims is tight, but not impossible, the advantage is that bringing them to pressure is very easy and even with no pressure the tyres stay solid on the ramps... the Fugio is nearly back on the road as single speed now... 8)

cycleclinic

Excellent and you are using proper tyres too.

ugo.santalucia

thecycleclinic wrote:

Excellent and you are using proper tyres too.

Yeah, they are still the original I got last year... I took them off last September and it's time I finish them off... they've got at least another 1000 miles in them, possibly more

spasypaddy

so im changing my building plans.

was going to build some hed belgiums on hopes but think i would be better set to build something that i can use on my TT bike so i can actually train on it and not train on a reynolds disc and a hed 3 trispoke.

So essentially i am after some carbon tubular rims, not too expensive with decent braking. that match the width of my disc and tri spoke so i dont have to play with brake pads too much

Disc is a reynolds element which is 21mm
Hed 3 is 19mm (i think)

Suggestions? Gigantex?

ugo.santalucia

spasypaddy wrote:

so im changing my building plans.

was going to build some hed belgiums on hopes but think i would be better set to build something that i can use on my TT bike so i can actually train on it and not train on a reynolds disc and a hed 3 trispoke.

So essentially i am after some carbon tubular rims, not too expensive with decent braking. that match the width of my disc and tri spoke so i dont have to play with brake pads too much

Disc is a reynolds element which is 21mm
Hed 3 is 19mm (i think)

Suggestions? Gigantex?

I've got the feeling whichever way you go, building carbon rims turns out to be non-economical with respect to what you can buy already built. That unless you import some chinese rims and use inexpensive spokes

spasypaddy

ugo.santalucia wrote:

spasypaddy wrote:

so im changing my building plans.

was going to build some hed belgiums on hopes but think i would be better set to build something that i can use on my TT bike so i can actually train on it and not train on a reynolds disc and a hed 3 trispoke.

So essentially i am after some carbon tubular rims, not too expensive with decent braking. that match the width of my disc and tri spoke so i dont have to play with brake pads too much

Disc is a reynolds element which is 21mm
Hed 3 is 19mm (i think)

Suggestions? Gigantex?

I've got the feeling whichever way you go, building carbon rims turns out to be non-economical with respect to what you can buy already built. That unless you import some chinese rims and use inexpensive spokes

i already have decent hubs though...

chinese rims will be under £200 wouldnt they?

ugo.santalucia

spasypaddy wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

spasypaddy wrote:

so im changing my building plans.

was going to build some hed belgiums on hopes but think i would be better set to build something that i can use on my TT bike so i can actually train on it and not train on a reynolds disc and a hed 3 trispoke.

So essentially i am after some carbon tubular rims, not too expensive with decent braking. that match the width of my disc and tri spoke so i dont have to play with brake pads too much

Disc is a reynolds element which is 21mm
Hed 3 is 19mm (i think)

Suggestions? Gigantex?

I've got the feeling whichever way you go, building carbon rims turns out to be non-economical with respect to what you can buy already built. That unless you import some chinese rims and use inexpensive spokes

i already have decent hubs though...

chinese rims will be under £200 wouldnt they?

Once you factor in import duties, handling fees and the all lot I think they will be well north of 200... at least the decent ones will

spasypaddy

ugo.santalucia wrote:

spasypaddy wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

spasypaddy wrote:

so im changing my building plans.

was going to build some hed belgiums on hopes but think i would be better set to build something that i can use on my TT bike so i can actually train on it and not train on a reynolds disc and a hed 3 trispoke.

So essentially i am after some carbon tubular rims, not too expensive with decent braking. that match the width of my disc and tri spoke so i dont have to play with brake pads too much

Disc is a reynolds element which is 21mm
Hed 3 is 19mm (i think)

Suggestions? Gigantex?

I've got the feeling whichever way you go, building carbon rims turns out to be non-economical with respect to what you can buy already built. That unless you import some chinese rims and use inexpensive spokes

i already have decent hubs though...

chinese rims will be under £200 wouldnt they?

Once you factor in import duties, handling fees and the all lot I think they will be well north of 200... at least the decent ones will

hmmm im still tempted. i just dont want to waste my hope hubs. they're sitting around doing nothing. and i realise i dont need hed belgium rims and i really could do with some training wheels for my TT bike (the brake pads are too difficult to keep swapping in and out)

drlodge

May be ask Malcolm @TCC to build you a set of carbon wheels using your Hope hubs and his "BORG" rims?

brettjmcc

Why not just get some cheap rims to match the carbon ones? That way weather doesn't affect them and it's not too hard to change the pads.

I'm now using some CXP22s as my training wheels on my TT bike and they weigh a tonne, makes it better when I out the actual wheels on!

spasypaddy

drlodge wrote:

May be ask Malcolm @TCC to build you a set of carbon wheels using your Hope hubs and his "BORG" rims?

TCC? (i just want the rims, and then i'll build myself)

brettjmcc wrote:

Why not just get some cheap rims to match the carbon ones? That way weather doesn't affect them and it's not too hard to change the pads.

I'm now using some CXP22s as my training wheels on my TT bike and they weigh a tonne, makes it better when I out the actual wheels on!

they need to be carbon so i can keep using the carbon pads. I'd rather go tub for cheap carbon rims as they should be built better. But clinchers would make more sense

ugo.santalucia

spasypaddy wrote:

they need to be carbon so i can keep using the carbon pads.

Pencil on the brake track before heading out? I'll take my coat...

drlodge

TCC = TheCycleClinic, perhaps Malcolm would sell you a pair of his rims.

spasypaddy

drlodge wrote:

TCC = TheCycleClinic, perhaps Malcolm would sell you a pair of his rims.

ah they're too wide unfortunately .

ive just sent gigantex and email. i'd be after a pair of these - WH108
http://www.gigantex.com.tw/product-view.php?id=44

ugo.santalucia

drlodge wrote:

TCC = TheCycleClinic, perhaps Malcolm would sell you a pair of his rims.

I don't think he will, if the rims carry his name in any shape or form. Say Spasy paddy builds them badly and the rim breaks... there is a damage to the image, it's a risk not worth taking. Wheelsmith won't sell you rims, Zipp won't sell you rims, Reynolds won't sell you rims... Mavic will because their rims are not the ones used for their wheels... it's a separate market

spasypaddy

ugo.santalucia wrote:

drlodge wrote:

TCC = TheCycleClinic, perhaps Malcolm would sell you a pair of his rims.

I don't think he will, if the rims carry his name in any shape or form. Say Spasy paddy builds them badly and the rim breaks... there is a damage to the image, it's a risk not worth taking. Wheelsmith won't sell you rims, Zipp won't sell you rims, Reynolds won't sell you rims... Mavic will because their rims are not the ones used for their wheels... it's a separate market

he does sell them

ugo.santalucia

spasypaddy wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

drlodge wrote:

TCC = TheCycleClinic, perhaps Malcolm would sell you a pair of his rims.

I don't think he will, if the rims carry his name in any shape or form. Say Spasy paddy builds them badly and the rim breaks... there is a damage to the image, it's a risk not worth taking. Wheelsmith won't sell you rims, Zipp won't sell you rims, Reynolds won't sell you rims... Mavic will because their rims are not the ones used for their wheels... it's a separate market

he does sell them

Mistake!

brettjmcc

spasypaddy wrote:

they need to be carbon so i can keep using the carbon pads. I'd rather go tub for cheap carbon rims as they should be built better. But clinchers would make more sense

Less than a couple of mins to change pads unless I am doing something wrong in my life, which to be fair, the wife tells me I am frequently

spasypaddy

brettjmcc wrote:

spasypaddy wrote:

they need to be carbon so i can keep using the carbon pads. I'd rather go tub for cheap carbon rims as they should be built better. But clinchers would make more sense

Less than a couple of mins to change pads unless I am doing something wrong in my life, which to be fair, the wife tells me I am frequently

to change my rear pads needs a full removal of the crankset, and then its incredibly hard to get in there and re-adjust them to different widths.

timothyw

spasypaddy wrote:

brettjmcc wrote:

spasypaddy wrote:

they need to be carbon so i can keep using the carbon pads. I'd rather go tub for cheap carbon rims as they should be built better. But clinchers would make more sense

Less than a couple of mins to change pads unless I am doing something wrong in my life, which to be fair, the wife tells me I am frequently

to change my rear pads needs a full removal of the crankset, and then its incredibly hard to get in there and re-adjust them to different widths.

Sounds like you don't just need new wheels, you need N+1 - training TT bike with identical setup but cheaper components.

spasypaddy

TimothyW wrote:

spasypaddy wrote:

brettjmcc wrote:

spasypaddy wrote:

they need to be carbon so i can keep using the carbon pads. I'd rather go tub for cheap carbon rims as they should be built better. But clinchers would make more sense

Less than a couple of mins to change pads unless I am doing something wrong in my life, which to be fair, the wife tells me I am frequently

to change my rear pads needs a full removal of the crankset, and then its incredibly hard to get in there and re-adjust them to different widths.

Sounds like you don't just need new wheels, you need N+1 - training TT bike with identical setup but cheaper components.

that has crossed my mind. genuinely. However i don't have room for a 6th bike...