Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

spasypaddy

i have some hope hubs, rear is 28h, front isnt bought yet but will probably be a 28h to match.

i want to build them with some tubular rims (this isnt a tub vs clincher vs tubeless debate).

what rims? not even sure what i'll use them for other than either - everyday wheels, training wheels for my TT bike or lightweight mountain wheels.

All depends on what rims are recommended...

If anyone knows where i can get the HED belgium C2 rim i'd be very grateful

cycleclinic

Well I can think of a shop that has belgium c2 tubular in 28H in stock

Otherwise there is little available that is good to use in 28H for the rear. Avoid the Ambrosio chrono in that drilling for the rear unless you are very light and not hard on wheels. The ambrosio nemesis is a fine rim hut 32h There is the very narrow kinlin tb25. Then there is a clutch of rims no longer made.

The mavic gp4's was made in 28H drilling. Got a couple of these but at 400g and quite shallow they won't build a stiff wheel but stiff enough to hold together if you are not too heavy.

The velocity major tom is the only other production rim in 28H drilling that would work but even 27mm pave tubs don't sit right on them. They are meant for cross tubs.

The hed rim is the best one out there I ride a pair laced up with cx ray spokes on 28H campagnolo record hubs and they are lovey to ride. I have 25mm conti competition tubs in them as it the wheels set I use for very long rides.

spasypaddy

what shop would that be? as they aren't available on your website. could you PM me?

would you recommend the belgium c2? im about 70kg and im not sure what these wheels will be used for...

cycleclinic

Lots of my stock most not on my website. If you want to give up a month of your time and list it all for me for free I am all ears. The rims only come in 24h 28H and 32H drilling so not much of a choice. Regardless of your weight 24f/28r makes sense because have you tried getting these rims. I had to wait months.


Ah some you are building wheels just because got several sets just because.

boblo

Ah some you are building wheels just because got several sets just because

Sorry, couldn't work that one out...

spasypaddy

im so confused

bigpikle

Any suggestions for a fixed rear wheel for a conversion of an old steel 531 frame? Its going to be a winter trainer/general hack bike and I'm after a reasonable quality rim and hub that will take some abuse from the wet roads etc? I'm 75kg and want a clincher rim in silver with a silver hub. Front wheel is a Ambrosio Excellence on an Ambrosio hub so ideally something that doesnt look a million miles away from that.
Thanks

ugo.santalucia

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19760476#p19760476]Bigpikle[/url] wrote:

Any suggestions for a fixed rear wheel for a conversion of an old steel 531 frame? Its going to be a winter trainer/general hack bike and I'm after a reasonable quality rim and hub that will take some abuse from the wet roads etc? I'm 75kg and want a clincher rim in silver with a silver hub. Front wheel is a Ambrosio Excellence on an Ambrosio hub so ideally something that doesnt look a million miles away from that.
Thanks

Ambrosio excellence on Ambrosio single speed hub?

http://www.londonbicycleworkshop.com/2051/products/ambrosio-zenith-32h-rear-track-hub-silver.aspx

cycleclinic

Or an h plus son tb14 if you can stomach a different rim on the back.

rollemynot

Welcome home

MikeBrew

Just picked up this
Sturmey Archer S2, 2 speed kickshift, and I want to lace it into a cheap but sturdy rear hoop for commutes. I'm running 48/16 at the moment which is a pain in town. This has a 1:1.38 overdrive, meaning I could gear down for traffic and slopes whilst still having the bigger ratio for the flat country roads that are a large part of my daily journey. Was going to fit front derailleur and another chain ring etc, but figured this looked to be a "tidier" solution.
It's 36H. Any thoughts on rim, spokes, and lacing pattern ? Rim-wise I've looked at Weinmann/Rigida (same thing?) DP 18, and the somewhat lighter Aerorage by Halo. Any suggestions welcome. Thanks in advance.

ugo.santalucia

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19777739#p19777739]MikeBrew[/url] wrote:

Just picked up this
Sturmey Archer S2, 2 speed kickshift, and I want to lace it into a cheap but sturdy rear hoop for commutes. I'm running 48/16 at the moment which is a pain in town. This has a 1:1.38 overdrive, meaning I could gear down for traffic and slopes whilst still having the bigger ratio for the flat country roads that are a large part of my daily journey. Was going to fit front derailleur and another chain ring etc, but figured this looked to be a "tidier" solution.
It's 36H. Any thoughts on rim, spokes, and lacing pattern ? Rim-wise I've looked at Weinmann/Rigida (same thing?) DP 18, and the somewhat lighter Aerorage by Halo. Any suggestions welcome. Thanks in advance.

Tyre size you want to run?

lostboysaint

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19777589#p19777589]Rollemynot[/url] wrote:

Welcome home

Photos of my latest pair (on the MTB side of the forum) later Velocity Blunt 35 on Hope.

MikeBrew

@Ugo , nothing masssive tyre-wise. Probabaly 28c .

tincaman

Could someone check my calcs for spoke lengths please as this is my first build?
Novatec D772SB rear and D771SB

D772SB
PCD 58/49
FTF 56.4
Offset 7.8

D771SB
PCD 58/45
FTF 62
Offset 7.2

Using 2 cross

Rim is DT Swiss R460 disc with ERD of 596 and 28 hole

I make it Rear: 280.8 and 292.8 Front: 283 and 283

ugo.santalucia

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19778221#p19778221]tincaman[/url] wrote:

I make it Rear: 280.8 and 292.8 Front: 283 and 283

Surely not

ugo.santalucia

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19777827#p19777827]MikeBrew[/url] wrote:

@Ugo , nothing masssive tyre-wise. Probabaly 28c .

DP 18 is very narrow, you might find that a 28 struggles to stay on.

Mavic open sport? Not the most glamorous rim in the world, but cheap and cheerful and takes big tyres

MikeBrew

Yes , that was one of the options local bike shop gave when I popped in there to see what they had in stock, on the way home. He also steered me towards H+Son Archetype in the highly polished finish.
Didn't really want to spend that much, and a pretty rim like that would deserve a matching front ! Bugger, I wasn't going to spend much ! Then there's some NOS Mavic CXP30's in Champagne finish..... I knew I should of just pedaled past.

ugo.santalucia

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19778253#p19778253]MikeBrew[/url] wrote:

Yes , that was one of the options local bike shop gave when I popped in there to see what they had in stock, on the way home. He also steered me towards H+Son Archetype in the highly polished finish.
Didn't really want to spend that much, and a pretty rim like that would deserve a matching front ! Bugger, I wasn't going to spend much ! Then there's some NOS Mavic CXP30's in Champagne finish..... I knew I should have just pedaled past.

Don't get the silver Archetype, they are full of polishing dust and a pain to build, unless you spend an hour cleaning every single hole.

Interestingly I did build some CX 30 in Champagne finish in the summer of 2014... nice rims... not sure what tyre size they can take... you need to know the inner width, multiply by 2 and that's give or take the biggest tyre they can get. There are plenty of exceptions to this empirical rule, especially as you go for wider rims. Typically a 17 internal can take almost anything, but for a 13 internal a 28 tyre is already a risk

tincaman

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19778249#p19778249]ugo.santalucia[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19778221#p19778221]tincaman[/url] wrote:

I make it Rear: 280.8 and 292.8 Front: 283 and 283

Surely not

Sorry, read the wrong column should be 283.3

If correct, do I round my figures up or down?

Is 14mm the correct nipple length, thanks?

ugo.santalucia

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19778265#p19778265]tincaman[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19778249#p19778249]ugo.santalucia[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19778221#p19778221]tincaman[/url] wrote:

I make it Rear: 280.8 and 292.8 Front: 283 and 283

Surely not

Sorry, read the wrong column should be 283.3

If correct, do I round my figures up or down?

Is 14mm the correct nipple length, thanks?

If your numbers are right and you plotted them in a decent calculator (I suggest DT Swiss), then they sound reasonable. The length of the nipple depends on which length you plotted in the calculator, otherwise it defaults to 12 mm. 14 mm DT ones have longer threads, so they allow you to compensato for shorter spokes.
If you use Sapim D-Light round the length up, they are designed so that they do not bottom out, as the butting starts right at the end of the thread

sam1176uk

What are peoples opinions on these, i am considering buying:

Kinlin XR270 rims
Novatec A291SB and F482SB hubs
24/28 spokes Black Sapim Race 2.0/1.8/2.0 double butted with brass nipples
EZO sealed bearings

Any info appreciated,
I am 85kg

Thanks

rowlers

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19778785#p19778785]sam1176uk[/url] wrote:

What are peoples opinions on these, i am considering buying:

Kinlin XR270 rims
Novatec A291SB and F482SB hubs
24/28 spokes Black Sapim Race 2.0/1.8/2.0 double butted with brass nipples
EZO sealed bearings

Any info appreciated,
I am 85kg

Thanks

Ha! I'm just looking to replace a set of these rims, nearly worn through in a couple of years, but they were my winter wheels and have seen some grim condition... Been great in that time though... I've got them on Miche hubs which I still haven't touched and they are smooth still.

cycleclinic

sam1176uk the XR270 is very narrow. Cheap but narrow. Similarly cheap is the Kinlin XC279. Not much heavier too. It is wider and stiffer. A better rim in every way.

tincanman build those wheels 3x please. 2x is fine for rim brakes but disc brakes transmit braking torque through the spokes. 3x works just fine for 28 spoke wheels. For 3x you will need 292/294mm L/R front and 293mm L/R rear.
For 2x lacing anyway the lengths are front L/R 280/285mm Rear L/R 281/282mm but you could use 282mm boths sides as well. 283mm would leave you running out of threads NDS rear.

Mike brew A cheap rim would be a Mavic 119 or 319 or maybe the heavy and indistructable Ryde Sputnik.

dabulamanz

Hello, I'd appreciate some advice in terms of getting new wheels. I've got a Specialized Diverge A1 sport with the original wheels and hubs (AXIS Classic Disc, wide). I ride about 250km a week on a commute from South to West London. The route is all road in winter but when it's dry about 30% is on a gravel path. I weigh about 75kg probably and travel with a pannier and rack which probably has 5kg> of stuff usually.

I have done a few thousand kms since April '15 and the hubs are on their last legs but rims don't have any obvious damage. I have a budget of £400 but preferably less, however I want some wheels that can take the commute for at least the next year and appreciate I may need to splash out. I am lost in the sea of options between factory builds, ordering hand-builts, buying parts separately and getting my LBS to put them together or to try and do it myself.

I'd be grateful for anyone's opinion/pointers/suggestions on which options to take. Thanks.

ugo.santalucia

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19782482#p19782482]Dabulamanz[/url] wrote:

Hello, I'd appreciate some advice in terms of getting new wheels. I've got a Specialized Diverge A1 sport with the original wheels and hubs (AXIS Classic Disc, wide). I ride about 250km a week on a commute from South to West London. The route is all road in winter but when it's dry about 30% is on a gravel path. I weigh about 75kg probably and travel with a pannier and rack which probably has 5kg> of stuff usually.

I have done a few thousand kms since April '15 and the hubs are on their last legs but rims don't have any obvious damage. I have a budget of £400 but preferably less, however I want some wheels that can take the commute for at least the next year and appreciate I may need to splash out. I am lost in the sea of options between factory builds, ordering hand-builts, buying parts separately and getting my LBS to put them together or to try and do it myself.


I'd be grateful for anyone's opinion/pointers/suggestions on which options to take. Thanks.

Maybe you just need new bearings

dabulamanz

Sorry, I should have added that when the LBS serviced the rear hub before Christmas they said that some of the inner workings had deteriorated and it would continue to do so and would need to be replaced. It wasn't just a case of replacing with new bearings. He was surprised that the standard hubs issued with my bike had made at this far at all.

cycleclinic

Novatec D771/D772 hubs are decent. Miche have the Syntium DX. Hope hubs are more expensive and threaten your budget.
shimano do the excellent CX-75 which don't threaten your budget.

Not sure what your LBS means by inner workings detoriationg. Hubs have bearings a freehub and ratchet ring.
The ratchet ring wont be going off. bearings and freehubs can be replaced unless your hub is a cup and cone job in which case nasty.

Rims Pacenti SL25 or Kinlin do the XR22RT OCR catchy name hey. The Kinlin is the better rim I think and cheaper too.

Spokes given your mileage should be triple butted. Sapim do the Force DT Swiss do the alpine III. Your mileage is high and the rims won't wear out. this is how to extend spoke life and still get away with a 28 spoke wheel.

You could have your current wheels re built if you have a spare set.

JesseD

Looking for a set of stiff race wheels for crits and undulating road races, what’s recommended?

Was initially looking at factory built wheels but the advice I have gotten in my other thread about race bikes has got me looking down the line of decent handbuilts.

I weigh 13.5 stone
Don’t want any lateral movement on the rims (or very very little)
I want all black wheels (spokes/rims/hubs)
Preferably wider rims as I want to run 25mm tyres

Not sure about how many spoke I would need front and back, would 24/28 suffice or would I be better going for more spokes?

Open to all suggestions.

Budget will be between £300 - £350 I reckon.

cycleclinic

If you don't want lateral movement or at least anything you will notice then don't use the lightweight Pacenti SL23. While a 28 spoke rear is quite stiff it is still possible to detension the NDS spokes and that is when people notice flex.

Use a rim with off set drilling for the rear. There are 4 around at the moment.
Ryde Pulse sprint (and the comp but have you tried fitting a tyre to the comps' don't if I where you)
DT Swiss RR440
Kinlin XR22t
Kinlin XR31t

the last rim is the best not the lightest but overall the best rim. All you would need is a 20F/24R as the rim is so stiff. the first rim is the light and actually quite stiff. The DT swiss rim is O.K but is the the best rim for a race set of wheels - probably not. The third works fine in 24F/28R and would also be fine for racing/training everything really.

Hubs well so long as the wheel turns smoothly on them, they give good bracing angles and the bearings last then spend as little or as much as you want.

Of the many wheels you can buy on the market sold as race wheels I do think the Kinlin XR31T laced to something decent hub wise (that does not mean a big spend either) performs just as well if not better in some ways. Certainly wheels built with this rim are very stiff indeed.