Handbuilt wheels... the big thread
Comments
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Because as anyone that rides/races motorbikes will tell you it's not about stiffness of the sidewall at all, it's about how well the tyre deforms to give you the best contact patch on the road whilst still staying attached to the wheel!
I agree, that's the point I'm trying to make, this thing about sidewall profile is a red-herring!0 -
It's not about sidewall stiffness , it's the sideway deformation that makes a difference.
Lateral movement of the tread related to the rim, basically simple geometry.
This sideways deformation is:
a) small, because the loads on the tyre (even in cornering, because the bike leans) are predominantly radial
b) not really affected by rim width (if anything they are made worse by a wider rim/tyre because the moment on the tyre arises due to difference in distance between the centreline of the wheel and the centre of the contact patch).0 -
Well , try it and notice what you feel.
The"feel" is just the thing that makes the difference regarding relative wider rims , no variations in grip that makes faster cornering possible.
Always with lower pressure in mind, at 8 Bar it makes no difference, but which fool rides 25 mm at 8 Bar?
I have both wide and regular wheelsets, and I ride tubs too. If sidewall stiffness was so important, why do ultra-supple tubs corner the best?
The primary effect of wide rims is increased tyre volume/lower pressures (and this has a meaningful impact), but you get largely the same effect using a wider tyre on a narrower rim. There are other benefits to wide rims but they're not a must-have for most people.
The one thing I missed from your post was that you'd get the same effect from using bigger volume tyres on narrow rims. You will definitely NOT get the same effects as the tyre will deform very differently and be trying to lever itself out of the rim much more than on a wider rim. It's about how the tyre SHAPE allows the deformation (and support from the rim/sidewall combo) with less air volume in it.Trail fun - Transition Bandit
Road - Wilier Izoard Centaur/Cube Agree C62 Disc
Allround - Cotic Solaris0 -
Just to say my wheels arrived on Monday built by the Cycle clinic. HED Belgium+ on Whyte T11 with 24/28 CX-Rays.
While I appreciate taste is personal, they are things of beauty.
They are shod with 23mm Schwalbe ones, Tubeless.
Just been out for a quick round the block shakedown (When I have done anything to the bike more significant than changing a bottle cage the first check is always a ride I can walk home from any point of. In cleats) and they ride very nicely. It is difficult to describe - words that pop into my head include Zing, and Tautness. No feeling of harshness (wasn't expecting any).
Thanks Malcolm,
Paul.Giant Defy 2
Large bloke getting smaller :-)0 -
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This sideways deformation is:
a) small, because the loads on the tyre (even in cornering, because the bike leans) are predominantly radial
b) not really affected by rim width (if anything they are made worse by a wider rim/tyre because the moment on the tyre arises due to difference in distance between the centreline of the wheel and the centre of the contact patch).
Your reply is theoretic correct, but not complete....
a- Small , but still able to deform a wide tyre a lot on a narrow rim at a pressure low enough to provide a smoother ride (which was one of the start points of wider tyres)
b- It is affected by rim widt so much that the result is a more stable tyre form, which can and is felt by many riders .
Slightly offtopic: A similar effect (b) can be noticed with car tyres, a 205 tyre on a 7" rim gives a more precise handling than on a 6" rim because the tyre form is less "ballooned"0 -
Anyone built up a set of Velocity Aileron rims yet? Any good?0
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Anyone built up a set of Velocity Aileron rims yet? Any good?
yes, as good as the Pacenti or the Stans Grailleft the forum March 20230 -
They are fine so long as you get a round one. Had two or three that have had to be binned because I could not even close to anything resembling a round wheel with them. It is a good rim though that issue aside. My own set are doing sterling service.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0
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I'm looking at building up some lightweight wheels using Novatec SL hubs and some Chinese carbon rims. Any ideas on which Chinese Ebay supplier is ok these days for rims?0
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Just to say my wheels arrived on Monday built by the Cycle clinic. HED Belgium+ on Whyte T11 with 24/28 CX-Rays.
While I appreciate taste is personal, they are things of beauty.
They are shod with 23mm Schwalbe ones, Tubeless.
Just been out for a quick round the block shakedown (When I have done anything to the bike more significant than changing a bottle cage the first check is always a ride I can walk home from any point of. In cleats) and they ride very nicely. It is difficult to describe - words that pop into my head include Zing, and Tautness. No feeling of harshness (wasn't expecting any).
Thanks Malcolm,
Paul.
Pictures please.0 -
Pictures please.
Here you go. https://flic.kr/s/aHskiTJWst
I'll probably take them down in a few days...Giant Defy 2
Large bloke getting smaller :-)0 -
And you do a better job of photography than i do, but given my skills with a camera....
I can't make out what frame that is. I see spin on the down tube but I have not heard of that. Looks good though.
I am surprised though at the White bar tape. How long will it say white?http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0 -
It's a spin spitfire MkIII - I gather I got the last one from Drew - http://ridefullgas.com/
As for bar tape, it looks good and I look on it getting grubby as a little bit like guitars getting a little worn and us picking up scars as we go through life - its a sign of use (or after the crap year I have had non-use)
PaulGiant Defy 2
Large bloke getting smaller :-)0 -
Has anyone else had issues getting tyres on Pacenti SL25s?
Got mine yesterday, I'm trying to mount Vredestein Fortezza Senso All Weather 25s on them and they're not even close... I've snapped 3 tyres levers so far... I've tried lubing the bead with washing up liquid but it doesn't make any difference...
Any ideas/tips?0 -
Yes they are tight but I did it. Had to use tyre levers though which show how tight it is. Use better tyre levers like campagnolo or the var offering (they have a kit for tight tyres).http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0
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Make full use of the lower part in the middle of the rim. I've not had to use levers to put on tyres on SL25 yet.0
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Thanks chaps, I took my old - well stretched - conti 4 seasons off my other wheels and managed to get those mounted. I think I'll put the new tyres on another wheel and pump them up to stretch them out and then I'll try heating them up and mounting them again I think.
My worry is what happens when I get a puncture :-/0 -
Thanks for that!
Here’s a video explanation of this absolutely vital point.Make full use of the lower part in the middle of the rim. I've not had to use levers to put on tyres on SL25 yet.0 -
OK... taking the plunge... gonna build my own wheels...
Got a lovely pair of Ambrosio Nemesis 32h rims, will probably get a set of Campag record hubs, 32h in black.... question is what spokes would everyone suggest? I'm not at all heavy so these don't need to be 'clydesdales' I just want something durable and lively...0 -
OK... taking the plunge... gonna build my own wheels...
Got a lovely pair of Ambrosio Nemesis 32h rims, will probably get a set of Campag record hubs, 32h in black.... question is what spokes would everyone suggest? I'm not at all heavy so these don't need to be 'clydesdales' I just want something durable and lively...
Sapim D-light rear and sapim laser front?left the forum March 20230 -
Ugo knows a lot more about this than I do but I've just had a pair of wheels built with sapim race spokes which seem to be a great combination of weight/strength/price. A pair of 28/28 wheels cost me £30 in spokes (nipples included) and they seem very well made - although time will well. I got mine from spa cycles http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b67s156p495 - they even ordered in the size I needed for me.OK... taking the plunge... gonna build my own wheels...
Got a lovely pair of Ambrosio Nemesis 32h rims, will probably get a set of Campag record hubs, 32h in black.... question is what spokes would everyone suggest? I'm not at all heavy so these don't need to be 'clydesdales' I just want something durable and lively...0 -
Success
Thanks for that!
Here’s a video explanation of this absolutely vital point.Make full use of the lower part in the middle of the rim. I've not had to use levers to put on tyres on SL25 yet.
I put the tyres on my normal clincher rims to help stretch them out a bit - weather they actually did or not I have no idea - and then tried re-mounting them using the method you mentioned, paying special attention to make sure the tyre is in the well of the rim the whole way round and they went on without too much fuss, still had to use a lever for the last bit but I always carry a set anyway. Thanks for your help chaps! 0 -
I personally think the D light are too thin for the nemesis rim for a rear wheel. To create a stiff wheel sapim race needs to be used. D lights would be fine in a 36 spoke rear.
Laser front works fine. If you use D-lights over race on the rear wheel you save maybe 25g it not a whole lot and the wheel will not feel more lively.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0 -
Hi, I bought a set of amp carbon clinchers, I got them for £225 off their eBay listing so thought I'd give them a shot, the hubs and spokes look very cheap and poor quality but the rims look quite nice, I'm having the odd spoke coming loose after each ride on the rear giving it a slight buckle, my question is can you replace the hubs and spokes for something better quality to make a decent wheelset. Cheers0
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Spokes coming loose on the rear indictes at tension general too low and not so much poor quality spokes.
Tight hem up might lose the problem.0 -
It also can be insufficient stress relieving. Either way take it to a shop that will true and tension with spoke tension gauge that way you get it sorted out properly first time.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0
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A question to the knowledgeable wheel builders who frequent here.... I have a set Vision Trimax wheels which i got for a barain basement price off planet x just over a year ago. They're decent enough, very lightweight and quite fast when rolling over smooth surfaces such as when racing crits. But they don't fair so well on broken up and bumpy roads when on weekend jaunt duties because of their ultra narrow rim profile.
When i bought the wheels, the sales blurb said they were hand builts and i figured the rims are Kinlins XR-300. Now it would be a shame to throw these wheels as the hubs seem decent enough and the spokes are straight pull CX rays.
If i were to keep the spokes and hubs, could i in theory change the rims to something like a Kinlin XR31t which is wider and has the same (similar) depth to the XR-300's? I think the spokes setup are 20F/24R and im 75kg. I'm thinking if i could make this work, i could get a decent upgrade for minimal cost and keep wastage down, but knowing me, I've probably no considered something fundamental here.0 -
I think you are just being overly fussy... the difference between a wide rim and a narrow one is not as lifechanging, to the point that you throw away 100 quid of rims to fit some new ones... when the rims are gone you might think about a wider replacement, but for now keep them as they areleft the forum March 20230
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So, this is probably a stupid idea and question, but, I have a worn rim from a set of handbuilts (specifically DT swiss RR585) and a front disk brake wheel which a knackered rim from a crash....
Is it a terrible idea to reuse the worn rim to rebuild the front disk wheel?
The wear indicators have worn off - it's sufficiently worn that I wouldn't ride rim brakes on it again, but just how risky is it if it isn't getting any further wear?0
