Road tubeless tyres, where and how much?

cycleclinic

Well I normally use the formula Pro X guard tyres but I have a pair of those Goodyear eagles in 28mm to try first. My guess is the good years maybe more puncture resistant but give up grip. Of course the Goodyear's may be truly awful, utterly wonderful or middling. I'll let you all know.

The Mavic yskion usts are almost worn out. Not even 3000km on them.

deswahriff

deswahriff wrote:

Thought I’d share my recent experience of going tubeless....I’ve liked the idea for a while but was always put off by maybe having to insert a tube if I had a puncture that sealant wouldn’t fix, knowing how tricky this could be “in the field”...the excellent common sense stuff on the Cycle Clinic site have convinced me otherwise...
...anyways, rims are HED Belgium Plus ( bike is a 2016 Roubaix) ...tyres are Roadlite 25mm, Var 17mm rim tape...first effort, front wheel, my rim-taping was less than perfect and couldn’t get a decent seal on the valve. ( I chose Cafelatex purely because of the nicely coloured dust cap, and while they’re fine now, next time I’d choose a valve with a more prominent rubber sleeve where the shaft goes through the rim hole). However, after a blast of CO2, I got it to seat properly and hold some pressure. Back wheel was better, got the knack of the rim taping, so much neater job, and made a better job of seating the valve with a splash of sealent, and got tyre seated perfectly with the track pump. It held its pressure perfectly (without sealant) while the front was slowly deflating so realised I had to start again with the front... had to get more rim tape, tried Stan’s 21mm which is actually a much better fit for these rims ( at some point I’ll redo the back one) and this time got the tyre seated nicely with the track pump.... sealant inserted, and 500 miles later, nothing to report!
...well apart from being a total convert, more comfortable, grippier , confidence-inspiring ( my chums tell me I’m descending like never before..!) ... a few surface cuts, especially on the rear (crappy section of Danube cycle path!) but no punctures, dramas, .. nothing..... almost tempted to drill a hole so I can practise using the worm things!

....so after 1200 uneventful miles, picked up a puncture this morning- a 3mm gash that didn’t self seal ( though slowed down the deflation considerably, which is kind of comforting)
...anyway a skinny worm did the job instantly though topped up the sealant just in case and the only issue was a gunged up valve that let all the air out when I removed the mini-pump after reinflating... got in quick at the second attempt to close it without losing too much. ..

....any valve/sealant recommendations that are maybe less prone to gunging up?....using Orange sealant and Cafelatex valves at the moment.

ddraver

Gunging up when air passes through a hole is what sealant is for...

Unfortunatly it can't tell the difference between a hole and a valve.

Keeping the valve at the top of the wheel when you release air for whatever reason can help but tbh it's a side effect of running sealant. Just give it a quick clean when you add more sealant.

zefs

After 2500km on Galactik 11 storm had my first puncture. I hit something but didn't hear air loss until I was near home a few minutes later where I could here it, took about 20 seconds to seal (small puncture) and left with about 40psi (caffelatex). No sealant spray, probably because caffelatex is different since it's bubble like. I tried to see if there are any sharp objects left on the tire, couldn't see any. Pumped to 90psi and no air loss over night, went for a 45km ride the other day without issues.

sloppyschleckonds

Ive found after 18 months or so, that changing the valve cores is a good idea. And also having a pump head that doesnt screw onto the valve core when inflating

deswahriff

...in hindsight, I carry some old conti valve cores from my tubed days...(anyone know if they’re a standard fit?)...so given I’d taken the core out to put in more sealant, I guess I should just have swapped to a new core....

.... I’ll try one for size next time the bike is on the work stand..

cycleclinic

have spare valve cores is a good idea. having a thin spoke 1.5mm to poke through the valve is another good idea but not one for the back pocket.

barongreenback

Could do with a bit of advice. I have a pair of Schwalbe pro ones fitted to Bontrager Paradigm TLR rims, using the Bontrager proprietary rim strip. When I fitted the tyres they went on with just a track pump - very simple to my surprise. I went to top up the sealant (orange) a couple of days ago and when the tyres deflated they unseated from the rim. They would not seat back on the rims. Since then I’ve tried a home made airshot type pump but the tyres will only seat with the valve unscrewed and lots of washing up solution. Plus of course I cannot screw the valve back in quick enough before they unseat again. It’s clear from the washing up liquid bubbles that air is escaping at a couple of points around the wheel ie it’s not a valve problem.

Any ideas? The tyres have given me good service so far and I’m loathe to replace tyres that are still in good condition. I’ve checked the beads and there’s no damage. Cleaned out old sealant and made sure nothing is fouling the rims.

thistle_

barongreenback wrote:

Any ideas? The tyres have given me good service so far and I’m loathe to replace tyres that are still in good condition. I’ve checked the beads and there’s no damage.

Might not help if your tyre unseats every time it deflates, but I find inflating the tyre with an innertube to seat the bead helps. You then only have to worry about getting one side to seal.
I've found though that once seated it's quite well stuck in there which doesn't sound like your tyre/rim combo is doing.

Are you deflating with the tyre on the ground? Is the weight of the bike crushing the tyre and causing the bead to pop out?

FWIW I top up through the valve core now with a syringe so I don't have the seating faff every time.

barongreenback

Thanks. The tyres did pop back off the rims when first installed but had no issues getting them to reinflate. I’ve left an inner tube in there for a couple of days but once the tyres are off then back to square one.

I also top up through the valve core. Would a milkit type valve help by keeping some pressure in the tyre?

sloppyschleckonds

^Try an extra layer of rim tape

bobones

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

^Try an extra layer of rim tape

Definitely this. Just use Gorilla or Duck tape to build up the height of the rim bed as it's much cheaper than tubeless tape and the airtight sealing will already have been done with your rim strip. You can easily tear it lengthways to the correct width. If one layer doesn't do it then add another: your tyre should be quite a tight fit on the rim when it's right. BTW, these duct tapes leave a gummy residue which is a pain to remove so I'd only use them on top of some other tape and not directly on a rim.

zefs

zefs wrote:

After 2500km on Galactik 11 storm had my first puncture. I hit something but didn't hear air loss until I was near home a few minutes later where I could here it, took about 20 seconds to seal (small puncture) and left with about 40psi (caffelatex). No sealant spray, probably because caffelatex is different since it's bubble like. I tried to see if there are any sharp objects left on the tire, couldn't see any. Pumped to 90psi and no air loss over night, went for a 45km ride the other day without issues.

Update: Did a 70km ride today and came back home with 30 psi less, so I thought of checking the tire.
I found this sharp wire embedded, funny thing is this isn't the puncture I had 2 days ago, not sure how many km's it was on the tire (from the outside there was nothing visible). From the photo you can tell that the sealant has done it's job as it's concentrated around the object. Cleaned the sealant and put some tube patches and will refresh the sealant (there was no liquid caffelatex although I had replaced 1 month ago, not sure if that is good). Impressed so far with tubeless.

cycleclinic

17mm tape for belgium+ rims is too narrow. Use 25mm tape and pull it really tight when fitting. 17mm tape will peall up with tyre changes causing leaks and grief.

ddraver

Well after 6 weeks, I'm gonna say it.

Tubeless (Pro Ones specifically) >> Pirelli P-Zeros

Now if Schwalbe could just get their asses into gear with the 'Durano Tubeless!!!'

Edit. That assumes one has ready access to a track pump...

cycleclinic

The tyre unseating is not actually due to high tight a fit it is. it is down to the shape of the rim. if there is no bump next to the well then the tyre can and normally does unseat. This is a critical part of tubeless compatibility that some rim manufacturers have forgotten all about. I don't want my tyres unseating at the roadside, otherwise I would have to carry an inner tube.

barongreenback

thecycleclinic wrote:

The tyre unseating is not actually due to high tight a fit it is. it is down to the shape of the rim. if there is no bump next to the well then the tyre can and normally does unseat. This is a critical part of tubeless compatibility that some rim manufacturers have forgotten all about. I don't want my tyres unseating at the roadside, otherwise I would have to carry an inner tube.

Thanks. Something that Bontrager have clearly screwed up. I will contact them and see what they say as I had assumed their proprietary tubeless rim strips would solve this issue.

cookeeemonster

Hi, I picked up this today: https://www.whyte.bike/glencoe/ - whyte glencoe. Comes with 650b tubeless ready wheels and tyres (WTB Horizon, TCS, 650b x 47c) but is set up currently with tubes.

They seem to have included some tubeless valves with the manual and bits and bobs.

Anyway...any advice on sealant to get? The recommended tyre pressure is from 35-45 psi it seems, so not sure if a mtb sealant would be better than a typical road sealant or if it makes any difference whatsoever. Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance

sloppyschleckonds

https://cyclingindustry.news/maxxis-high-road/

ddraver

Cookie Monster, given the lack of other reponses, from my experience it doesnt matter. Any of the big names are good.

cookeeemonster

Cheers, from my Google search it seems stans no tubes race sealant is pretty highly rated, if more expensive. I'd rather go nuclear in my first attempt rather than experiment with cheaper but maybe rubbish ones tbh.

Now do I need a birzman pump canister thing?? https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Birzman-Pump-U ... -QQAvD_BwE

tincaman

CookeeeMonster wrote:

Hi, I picked up this today: https://www.whyte.bike/glencoe/ - whyte glencoe. Comes with 650b tubeless ready wheels and tyres (WTB Horizon, TCS, 650b x 47c) but is set up currently with tubes.

They seem to have included some tubeless valves with the manual and bits and bobs.

Anyway...any advice on sealant to get? The recommended tyre pressure is from 35-45 psi it seems, so not sure if a mtb sealant would be better than a typical road sealant or if it makes any difference whatsoever. Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance

I have used Orange Seal for over a year with no problems. I broke the seal on the tyres recently and the sealant was still liquid although it was topped up in between. This is on tyres running at 50psi

N0bodyOfTheGoat

PX have got Magic Milk sealant in recently in two "flavours," depending upon what your needs are, it was £10 for 1 litre the other day (so probably a completely different price now) and they do smaller bottles too. No idea at all what the product is like.

cattytown

A tubeless inflator jobby? It varies whether you need one or not. Last week I wanted to check my sealant. Turned out the rim tape had been disturbed by my ham fisted tyre fitting/removal so I had to replace the rim tape.

I have one of those canisters. I went lazy and tried without first, just my floor pump and both tyres sorted themselves just fine.

Whereabouts are you based? I am between Bolton and Wigan - you'd be welcome if you wanted to pop round and borrow mine if needed.

cookeeemonster

cattytown wrote:

A tubeless inflator jobby? It varies whether you need one or not. Last week I wanted to check my sealant. Turned out the rim tape had been disturbed by my ham fisted tyre fitting/removal so I had to replace the rim tape.

I have one of those canisters. I went lazy and tried without first, just my floor pump and both tyres sorted themselves just fine.

Whereabouts are you based? I am between Bolton and Wigan - you'd be welcome if you wanted to pop round and borrow mine if needed.

Thanks for the kind offer fella but I'm a few hundred miles south of you!

cattytown

No problem!

ddraver

I think the race sealant is overkill for most of us. I think you re just making trouble for yourself there.

With a decent tubeless rim and tyre you should have no problem. However...sometimes life's a d*ck...

zefs

zefs wrote:

zefs wrote:

After 2500km on Galactik 11 storm had my first puncture. I hit something but didn't hear air loss until I was near home a few minutes later where I could here it, took about 20 seconds to seal (small puncture) and left with about 40psi (caffelatex). No sealant spray, probably because caffelatex is different since it's bubble like. I tried to see if there are any sharp objects left on the tire, couldn't see any. Pumped to 90psi and no air loss over night, went for a 45km ride the other day without issues.

Update: Did a 70km ride today and came back home with 30 psi less, so I thought of checking the tire.
I found this sharp wire embedded, funny thing is this isn't the puncture I had 2 days ago, not sure how many km's it was on the tire (from the outside there was nothing visible). From the photo you can tell that the sealant has done it's job as it's concentrated around the object. Cleaned the sealant and put some tube patches and will refresh the sealant (there was no liquid caffelatex although I had replaced 1 month ago, not sure if that is good). Impressed so far with tubeless.

https://i.imgur.com/Amd18T3.jpg

Update 2: So, with 2 tube patches and refreshed sealant I had no issues riding with this tire. I did 323km's total since then without loss of pressure or any issues, but on today's ride the tire gave up on one spot (I did lock the tire hard on this ride so it could be user error). Pretty good though, almost 3000km for one of the lightest/racing tubeless tires (Galactik 11storm)

sloppyschleckonds

I recently changed a Maxxis Padrone with 7000km in better condition than that.

zefs

The Galactik's cut very easily, even on the first rides although I didn't have problems with punctures until close to 3000km.
But I think this cut was from me locking the tire on the ride, otherwise could probably get more mileage.