Pacenti SL23 Volta 11s Hubs £169.99 now £149.99 Doh

SuperstarComponents.com

We are going through all our wheels and putting up spoke lengths. Tech guides are available on request till we tidy them up and put them onsite.

If you missed special offers keep an eye on facebook tommorrow for more offers... Or look at a copy of CWeekly for the code...

The thing I don't understand is we are a custom builder and you can duscuss any specification you want, just get in contact. It's not just about price, we are here to look after you. That's why we offer free truing, crash rebuild etc

Any questions let me know, superstar

SuperstarComponents.com

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I politely decline to try your product, no offence but I can build my own wheels and I like to choose my own components. I have tried your tubeless rim tape: I think it needs improvement... it tends to bubble during the fit and the bubbles are hard to remove... if not perfectly removed they crack and if they crack over a hole that's the end of the ride. The Stans seems to be more elastic, it doesn't bubble and consequently it doesn't crack

Strange that as they are both exactly the same product.... Made by tesa in Germany.

Anyway back to discussing wheels factually please, superstar

ugo.santalucia

SuperstarComponents.com wrote:

Strange that as they are both exactly the same product.... Made by tesa in Germany.

They are not, I have both in front of me... they are not the same thickness, they are not even the same shade of yellow. Maybe the manufacturer is the same, but they are selling you a different product, sorry.... buy a Stans tape and compare it yourself

MisterMuncher

SuperstarComponents.com wrote:

We are going through all our wheels and putting up spoke lengths. Tech guides are available on request till we tidy them up and put them onsite.

If you missed special offers keep an eye on facebook tommorrow for more offers... Or look at a copy of CWeekly for the code...

The thing I don't understand is we are a custom builder and you can duscuss any specification you want, just get in contact. It's not just about price, we are here to look after you. That's why we offer free truing, crash rebuild etc

Any questions let me know, superstar

I'm sure you are a custom builder. But you aren't a custom builder who's ten miles out the road who I've known for ages. Sometimes there's a very quantifiable advantage to the LBS.

jimwalsh

I have recently bought a set of these wheels.

I have dabbled with building my own wheels I have a spoke tension meter and park tools jig. While I am not a master wheel builder by any stretch of the imagination I can lace and build a wheel which stays true.

My thoughts on the wheels are that they are excellent value for money. they are true and well within the tolerances mentioned . However the spokes are not equally tensioned and I was surprised by the degree of variance. Not a massive issue for me as 30 mins with a spoke key sorted it out.

ugo.santalucia

jimwalsh wrote:

However the spokes are not equally tensioned and I was surprised by the degree of variance. Not a massive issue for me as 30 mins with a spoke key sorted it out.

Walsh in "Infallible robots routinely fail" shocker! :twisted:

How big is the degree of variance?

jimwalsh

from memory about 20-30% which I am not sure if it is significant but my OCD needed the wheels more even in tension...

ugo.santalucia

jimwalsh wrote:

from memory about 20-30% which I am not sure if it is significant .

It is... especially on the rear non drive side, especially at 24 holes and especially using Sapim Laser spokes... if they are 400-450 N instead of 600 N they will lose even more tension quickly and break.

Different story if you have something like 32 Sapim leader... a friend of mine did the all Paris-Roubaix with no measurable tension in his wheels... I offered to correct it, he said he didn't believe in high tension... broke two spokes a month laterand became a convert though...

jimwalsh

I have to say I am happy with the product though, as the price was good and I am reasonably happy in my ability to maintain the wheels.

ugo.santalucia

Just an add on to the human Vs Robot debate, as it bugged me and I think I made up my mind.
What Superstar says is that because cars are made by robots to a high standard, therefore machine built wheels are as good if not better than hand built wheels.
And I agree, but... robots become better than humans when you design the all process, including the components around the robot function... if you try to adapt the robot to existing parts, it will probably fall short of a human. Imagine a robot building a car with the parts of a 1930s car.
Mavic build their wheels with robots, but they have adapted the hubs, the spokes and the rims to be handled by robots. Every time I tried to rebuild a Ksyrium wheel, the result was inferior to the same wheel built by a robot. It's that simple: every single component was supposed to be inserted in a sequence that a human cannot do to the same standard. The opposite is true: if you instruct the robot to use parts designed to be hand built, it will do it, but I suspect it might fall short in quality. Can a robot punch a spoke head when the fit is not ideal? Can a robot compensate for a badly drilled hole in the flange and decide a washer is needed? Can a robot build a sub-standard rim to a high standard? Sometimes you have to overcome an issue and I don't think the robot is designed to do that

cycleclinic

20%-30% variation is poor. For a relaible wheel it needs to be 10% or +/-5% of the mean. Low tension on the NDS does not mean an unrelaible wheels but the wheel has to be stiff so the tension changes on the NDS spokes are small.

For most 11 speed hub tension on the NDS will be around 500N (DS 1200N) if the NDS flange is 38mm from centre of the hub that means a tension variance of 435N to 575N if it 30%. If the DS tension is lower than 1200N then the problems will likely begin. Also some tyres will drop the tension alot leaving very little on some NDS spokes.

Building by machine is not problem if they hand finshed they appear not be hand finished properly. Unfortunatley the market demands low prices so machine built it is if you want a bussiness that that operates on a large scale.

SuperstarComponents.com

Hello i would be very surprised if the variation on one side of the wheel is 30% out, that wouldnt even be round! I cannot see that even being possible.

How are you measureing this? or do you mean 30% difference between sides (which is correct and due to dish angles). I have PMed the customer and asked them to return the wheelset for investigation, we can tie up the wheel with its actual build data which is stored in the machine for QC.

Also i will say again, that our machine builds them to as high or higher quality levels than an experienced human can do. When people commenting have never seen our machine, bought our product or knows what it can do there are an awful lot of experts who can claim it is poor quality remotely. Sounds like shill comments to me by people who are involved in selling these "better handbuilds". I have yet to see any of these faulty wheels which people say are out there, we ask for them back and pay for them to be returned at our own cost.

To answer Ugo:

Can a robot build a sub-standard rim to a high standard? - Yes, the lacer visually inspects each hole location and size of the rim, and adjusts tension and location automatically. Hey it even can compensate for a bent axle...
Can a robot punch a spoke head when the fit is not ideal?/Can a robot compensate for a badly drilled hole in the flange and decide a washer is needed? - We dont sell cheap nasty hubs where this is a problem, it would be rejected before it was even assembled into a finished hub.

All our hubs are made on CNC machines to tolerances measured in microns, so most of these problems dont happen. Our machine also holds the spokes so there is zero spoke twist (so no pinging and going out of true like cheap machine built wheels) and de-stresses the wheels in process to bed in the bend/head just like a high end builder would do.


Any questions or problems please let me know, Superstar

ugo.santalucia

SuperstarComponents.com wrote:

Hello i would be very surprised if the variation on one side of the wheel is 30% out, that wouldnt even be round! I cannot see that even being possible.

How are you measureing this? or do you mean 30% difference between sides (which is correct and due to dish angles). I have PMed the customer and asked them to return the wheelset for investigation, we can tie up the wheel with its actual build data which is stored in the machine for QC.

We really appreciate your intervention on this thread. However, if you don't have the time to read the posts, wait until you do.
If the customer returns the wheel, you will find the values do not correlate as (if you read the post) you should have realised he has modified them himself. So pointless...

It is entirely possible to have a perfectly true wheel where the variation between spokes on the same side is 30% (+ or - 15%)... pretty much any Chinese clincher I inspected in the past (with a couple of notable exceptions) were visually true but with uneven tension.

charlie_potatoes

SuperstarComponents.com wrote:

Lots of stuff,was very patient and acquitted himself very well in the face of adversity

Well done that man!

ugo.santalucia

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

SuperstarComponents.com wrote:

Lots of stuff,was very patient and acquitted himself very well in the face of adversity

Well done that man!

Charlie did you order a pair of these? A light set of wheels might help you overcome those bumps in the road (that's Simon Warren's definition of Edge hill, not mine)...

charlie_potatoes

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

SuperstarComponents.com wrote:

Lots of stuff,was very patient and acquitted himself very well in the face of adversity

Well done that man!

Charlie did you order a pair of these? A light set of wheels might help you overcome those bumps in the road (that's Simon Warren's definition of Edge hill, not mine)...

Lol I think it's a new pair of legs I need to order

ugo.santalucia

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

Lol I think it's a new pair of legs I need to order

Nah... you need this... 8)

jimwalsh

as I have said I am happy with the wheels as I couldn't have bought all of the components for £149.99 I feel I got a bargain. It took me 30 mins to sort out which was not a problem for me so I don't see what the benefit of sending them back is.

I am in no way a shill. I can post my order number if you really want. I am a repeat customer as I have bought your hubs for a set of cx tubulars in the past.

I measured the tension using a park tools tension meter which I accept is not the most accurate however it is reasonably reproducible hence why I have given a rough percentage.

londoncommuter

Back onto the wheels themselves....

Silly question but do the Pacenti stickers just peel off the rim (don't like the red), is there a nack to it or is it best avoided at all costs?

Not that I purposefully collect bike components but I'm quite taken by their C46 carbon wheels - has anyone tried them?

MisterMuncher

Looks pretty similar to the decals on Shimano wheels, so I'm guessing easily removed. Haven't tried yet, mind.

SuperstarComponents.com

Just stickers on both carbon and SL23 rims so easy enough to peel off and clean up

Reagrds, Superstar

londoncommuter

SuperstarComponents.com wrote:

Just stickers on both carbon and SL23 rims so easy enough to peel off and clean up

Reagrds, Superstar

Many thanks. That's very helpful.

JoostG

Here a picture of my set:


I tried to get them airtight by using isolation tape, but that wasn't working. The valve kept leaking. I ordered some tape from Superstarcomponents (the one Ugo mentioned a couple a comments above), and that worked out fine. I didn't see or feel any difference with Stans except in the price.
Mounting some Ultremo ZX tubeless with a VAR tyre lever was easy and the floor pomp was enough. Now I have the wait for some decent weather to take them out.

ugo.santalucia

JoostG wrote:

I ordered some tape from Superstarcomponents (the one Ugo mentioned a couple a comments above), and that worked out fine. I didn't see or feel any difference with Stans except in the price.

I ordered 4 rolls of the 25 mm one for a few builds with Pacenti SL 25 and Aileron rims. The tape is very difficult to fit without creating a lot of air bubbles (especially on the second layer = tape on tape), which are not straightforward to remove with my thumbs. In a couple of rims, after fitting the tyre and removing it the tape had formed long cracks, which I patched adding more of it. The Stans never gave me that issue, it seems to be a tad stretchier, which prevents the cracking I suspect.
I am probably very fussy, as recently I tried the blue Pacenti tape which also tends to crack (but doesn't bubble) and I don't like.

It is entirely possible that I am not that good at fitting sticky tape, but I am 100% positive the Superstar tape is not the same tape which is branded as Stans NoTubes... so you are NOT getting the same product for half the price. You are getting a different product which might work perfectly fine for you. I won't buy it again and if someone asks me, I won't recommend it.

The only thing that make them look alike is that they have a similar (but not the same) colour and come with the same width choice. The length is different too (Superstar is nearly 1 meter longer)

matt-h

londoncommuter wrote:

Not that I purposefully collect bike components but I'm quite taken by their C46 carbon wheels - has anyone tried them?

i've ordered a set on DT 240 hubs.
£559 delivered.
Cant have them until Christmas though - they are a present from my daughter

Matt

londoncommuter

matt-h wrote:

londoncommuter wrote:

Cant have them until Christmas though - they are a present from my daughter

Matt

Oh no, you can't do that! Give us all a review. She'll never know.....

jimwalsh

the superstar tubeless valves are not good. got one working fine but the other is leaking sealant and air. very very annoying as it took ages to get the tyres on.

anyone got valve recommendations for tubeless road?

londoncommuter

jimwalsh wrote:

anyone got valve recommendations for tubeless road?

Can I hi-jack this slightly and ask that you also mention good options/shops for other bits needed (sealant, tape??)? I'd never thought of tubeless (and know nothing about it) but am being drawn into this after buying these wheels.....

On a slightly wider point, I get the point about lower pressure and more grip + less punctures for winter use but are most of the advantages of tubeless lost if using on a summer best bike when both of those maybe matter less?

matt-h

londoncommuter wrote:

jimwalsh wrote:

anyone got valve recommendations for tubeless road?

Can I hi-jack this slightly and ask that you also mention good options/shops for other bits needed (sealant, tape??)? I'd never thought of tubeless (and know nothing about it) but am being drawn into this after buying these wheels.....

On a slightly wider point, I get the point about lower pressure and more grip + less punctures for winter use but are most of the advantages of tubeless lost if using on a summer best bike when both of those maybe matter less?

I dont feel it matters less.
THe road are still in a crap state and the more comfortable you are over a distance has to be better for performance

Matt

JoostG

jimwalsh wrote:

the superstar tubeless valves are not good. got one working fine but the other is leaking sealant and air. very very annoying as it took ages to get the tyres on.

anyone got valve recommendations for tubeless road?

Is the valve leaking, or isn't the set air tight (in most cases you will notice this at the valve). Getting the valve/rim air tight is more than often a problem. Adding an extra layer of rubber (use an old inner tube) will help. In some cases I just used a valve from an old inner tube.