The Irony Thread

rjsterry

morstar said:

rjsterry said:

Government that makes a big show of being anti-woke and opposing 'cancel culture' is so thin-skinned that it can't cope with a little light-hearted teasing about flags.

The current lot do genuinely worry me.
It is a truly awful government.
I’m not a Tory voter but have never felt we have had a toxic ideologically led bunch of incompetents in charge before.
This lot are all style over substance. The flags thing is bloody ridiculous.

And all the flag-frotters who can't tell the difference between mocking a government minister and mocking a flag.

oH yOu HaTE yOUr CoUntRy dO YoU?!

It just screams insecurity.

pangolin

I read 2 articles about flags and can't work out if anyone is actually annoyed, and about what.

surrey_commuter

pangolin said:

I read 2 articles about flags and can't work out if anyone is actually annoyed, and about what.

I don’t watch TV news and am shocked that this nationalistic Govt has not been wrapping itself in the flag

morstar

pangolin said:

I read 2 articles about flags and can't work out if anyone is actually annoyed, and about what.

It’s more Tory cancel culture.

Naga Mancheti and the male BBC news presenter had a mini fit of giggles about the size of the flag of a government minister.

She has since been admonished for liking tweets taking the mick out of the gov obsession with flags.

To be fair, the giggling was a bit surprising but the obsession with the flag symbolism is a bit new to us as a nation. The fact nobody is allowed to joke about it does have some worrying hallmarks of facism.

Again though, it’s clear what is being cancelled.

We’ll have pledges of allegiance next.

pangolin

Ta. I watched the clip on YouTube and read some of the comments and now I'm sad.

Jezyboy

I'm shocked that anyone would consider Jenrick's patriotism sincere.

blazing_saddles

morstar said:

pangolin said:

I read 2 articles about flags and can't work out if anyone is actually annoyed, and about what.

It’s more Tory cancel culture.

Naga Mancheti and the male BBC news presenter had a mini fit of giggles about the size of the flag of a government minister.

She has since been admonished for liking tweets taking the mick out of the gov obsession with flags.

To be fair, the giggling was a bit surprising but the obsession with the flag symbolism is a bit new to us as a nation. The fact nobody is allowed to joke about it does have some worrying hallmarks of facism.

Again though, it’s clear what is being cancelled.

We’ll have pledges of allegiance next.

The random "male" presenter with Naga Munchetty was Charlie Stayt, btw.
He also has been admonished.
Left wing bias or right wing fascism. Flags or statues. Criticism and complaint are never more than a tweet away.
Everybody walking on egg shells these days.
Soon there will be something else to whine about and this will quickly be forgotten.

morstar

blazing_saddles said:

morstar said:

pangolin said:

I read 2 articles about flags and can't work out if anyone is actually annoyed, and about what.

It’s more Tory cancel culture.

Naga Mancheti and the male BBC news presenter had a mini fit of giggles about the size of the flag of a government minister.

She has since been admonished for liking tweets taking the mick out of the gov obsession with flags.

To be fair, the giggling was a bit surprising but the obsession with the flag symbolism is a bit new to us as a nation. The fact nobody is allowed to joke about it does have some worrying hallmarks of facism.

Again though, it’s clear what is being cancelled.

We’ll have pledges of allegiance next.

The random "male" presenter with Naga Munchetty was Charlie Stayt, btw.
He also has been admonished.
Left wing bias or right wing fascism. Flags or statues. Criticism and complaint are never more than a tweet away.
Everybody walking on egg shells these days.
Soon there will be something else to whine about and this will quickly be forgotten.

I hope it is soon forgotten. I do find the direction of travel worrying though.

I don’t believe we’re a massively patriotic nation and I don’t have all the reasons for why that is.

My take is that the government wants to change that and that is perfectly fine with me.

However, that pride should come from actions and be earned, not through symbolism and especially not through a combination of silenced dissent and enforced symbolism and compliance.

The latter is what we are potentially seeing. I accept it is only hints at the moment but the foundations are being put in place to venerate symbolic ideas without dissent.

surrey_commuter

morstar said:

blazing_saddles said:

morstar said:

pangolin said:

I read 2 articles about flags and can't work out if anyone is actually annoyed, and about what.

It’s more Tory cancel culture.

Naga Mancheti and the male BBC news presenter had a mini fit of giggles about the size of the flag of a government minister.

She has since been admonished for liking tweets taking the mick out of the gov obsession with flags.

To be fair, the giggling was a bit surprising but the obsession with the flag symbolism is a bit new to us as a nation. The fact nobody is allowed to joke about it does have some worrying hallmarks of facism.

Again though, it’s clear what is being cancelled.

We’ll have pledges of allegiance next.

The random "male" presenter with Naga Munchetty was Charlie Stayt, btw.
He also has been admonished.
Left wing bias or right wing fascism. Flags or statues. Criticism and complaint are never more than a tweet away.
Everybody walking on egg shells these days.
Soon there will be something else to whine about and this will quickly be forgotten.

I hope it is soon forgotten. I do find the direction of travel worrying though.

I don’t believe we’re a massively patriotic nation and I don’t have all the reasons for why that is.

My take is that the government wants to change that and that is perfectly fine with me.

However, that pride should come from actions and be earned, not through symbolism and especially not through a combination of silenced dissent and enforced symbolism and compliance.

The latter is what we are potentially seeing. I accept it is only hints at the moment but the foundations are being put in place to venerate symbolic ideas without dissent.

Not sure if I am splitting hairs but surely the point of the flags is to whip up some xenophobic bigotry and help foster a culture of them and us.

Jenrick is wrapping himself in the flag to distract from the fact he is a crook and potentially buy himself a few extra months before losing his job

morstar

surrey_commuter said:

morstar said:

blazing_saddles said:

morstar said:

pangolin said:

I read 2 articles about flags and can't work out if anyone is actually annoyed, and about what.

It’s more Tory cancel culture.

Naga Mancheti and the male BBC news presenter had a mini fit of giggles about the size of the flag of a government minister.

She has since been admonished for liking tweets taking the mick out of the gov obsession with flags.

To be fair, the giggling was a bit surprising but the obsession with the flag symbolism is a bit new to us as a nation. The fact nobody is allowed to joke about it does have some worrying hallmarks of facism.

Again though, it’s clear what is being cancelled.

We’ll have pledges of allegiance next.

The random "male" presenter with Naga Munchetty was Charlie Stayt, btw.
He also has been admonished.
Left wing bias or right wing fascism. Flags or statues. Criticism and complaint are never more than a tweet away.
Everybody walking on egg shells these days.
Soon there will be something else to whine about and this will quickly be forgotten.

I hope it is soon forgotten. I do find the direction of travel worrying though.

I don’t believe we’re a massively patriotic nation and I don’t have all the reasons for why that is.

My take is that the government wants to change that and that is perfectly fine with me.

However, that pride should come from actions and be earned, not through symbolism and especially not through a combination of silenced dissent and enforced symbolism and compliance.

The latter is what we are potentially seeing. I accept it is only hints at the moment but the foundations are being put in place to venerate symbolic ideas without dissent.

Not sure if I am splitting hairs but surely the point of the flags is to whip up some xenophobic bigotry and help foster a culture of them and us.

Jenrick is wrapping himself in the flag to distract from the fact he is a crook and potentially buy himself a few extra months before losing his job

I agree with your first paragraph but accept that is a subjective opinion. I was trying to be more generous with interpretation.

The problem I foresee is that they want to silence that interpretation.

rjsterry

I think Johnson has just seen how well a bit of flag-draped victimhood with constant moaning about a mythological oppressor works for Sturgeon (and every other nationalist ever), and wants a piece of it.

briantrumpet

At least no UK politician has done the Trumpian shag-the-flag act yet, but I'm wary of any politician who feels they have to enlist a flag's help to get their message across, whether or not they are sexually attracted to it.

Stevo_666

What is it about politicians and their flags?

briantrumpet

Stevo_666 said:

What is it about politicians and their flags?

Dunno.

You're still obsessed, I see.

Stevo_666

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

What is it about politicians and their flags?

Dunno.

You're still obsessed, I see.

With what?

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

What is it about politicians and their flags?

Yes, they're a bit late to the party, but seem keen to catch up. Come back JCJ, all is forgiven.

Stevo_666

This article seems to sum up the Cake Stop attitude quite well:
https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/03/20/bbc-labour-share-nasty-problem-patriotism/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

Quote:
The Union flag row shows the yawning gap between the public and Britain’s urban progressive elites

What is so funny about patriotism? The Union flag, God Save the Queen, the Royal family, the Armed Forces: the majority of us don’t embrace the emblems of nationhood out of overweening pride, or because we think we are better than anyone else, or we lust after an imaginary past in which Britannia Ruled The Waves. It’s just that patriotism is normal, as humdrum as crotchety March weather or a morning cup of tea.

But that is not how a metropolitan minority sees it. At the more extreme fringes of the Left, the Union Jack is a badge of imperialism and demagoguery. (In contrast with the EU flag, which they stick on their bumpers.) British history is one crime after another, and British people should be ashamed of themselves.

But even more moderate “progressives” view patriotism as something gauche to be sniggered at. Who can forget the snobbish reaction of Labour’s Emily Thornberry to seeing an English flag during a by-election trip to Rochester? And who will be able to forget the remarkable footage this week of the BBC’s Charlie Stayt and Naga Munchetty sneering at a Cabinet minister for having a Union Jack in 
his office?

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

This article seems to sum up the Cake Stop attitude quite well:
https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/03/20/bbc-labour-share-nasty-problem-patriotism/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

Quote:
The Union flag row shows the yawning gap between the public and Britain’s urban progressive elites

What is so funny about patriotism? The Union flag, God Save the Queen, the Royal family, the Armed Forces: the majority of us don’t embrace the emblems of nationhood out of overweening pride, or because we think we are better than anyone else, or we lust after an imaginary past in which Britannia Ruled The Waves. It’s just that patriotism is normal, as humdrum as crotchety March weather or a morning cup of tea.

But that is not how a metropolitan minority sees it. At the more extreme fringes of the Left, the Union Jack is a badge of imperialism and demagoguery. (In contrast with the EU flag, which they stick on their bumpers.) British history is one crime after another, and British people should be ashamed of themselves.

But even more moderate “progressives” view patriotism as something gauche to be sniggered at. Who can forget the snobbish reaction of Labour’s Emily Thornberry to seeing an English flag during a by-election trip to Rochester? And who will be able to forget the remarkable footage this week of the BBC’s Charlie Stayt and Naga Munchetty sneering at a Cabinet minister for having a Union Jack in 
his office?

Nice to know I'm considered part of the elite 😁. I guess if you've got nothing else to feel part of, working yourself up about this gives you something to belong to. It's as risible as Xi banning Winnie the Pooh.

Maybe, just maybe, you're taking a joke about a flag a bit too seriously.

briantrumpet

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

What is it about politicians and their flags?

Dunno.

You're still obsessed, I see.

With what?

Of all the flags in all the world you could have picked...

pangolin

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

What is it about politicians and their flags?

Dunno.

You're still obsessed, I see.

With what?

Of all the flags in all the world you could have picked...

Just as we're all trying so hard to move on...

Stevo_666

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

What is it about politicians and their flags?

Dunno.

You're still obsessed, I see.

With what?

Of all the flags in all the world you could have picked...

When I googled '****ers with flags', look what pops up

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

This article seems to sum up the Cake Stop attitude quite well:
https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/03/20/bbc-labour-share-nasty-problem-patriotism/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

Quote:
The Union flag row shows the yawning gap between the public and Britain’s urban progressive elites

What is so funny about patriotism? The Union flag, God Save the Queen, the Royal family, the Armed Forces: the majority of us don’t embrace the emblems of nationhood out of overweening pride, or because we think we are better than anyone else, or we lust after an imaginary past in which Britannia Ruled The Waves. It’s just that patriotism is normal, as humdrum as crotchety March weather or a morning cup of tea.

But that is not how a metropolitan minority sees it. At the more extreme fringes of the Left, the Union Jack is a badge of imperialism and demagoguery. (In contrast with the EU flag, which they stick on their bumpers.) British history is one crime after another, and British people should be ashamed of themselves.

But even more moderate “progressives” view patriotism as something gauche to be sniggered at. Who can forget the snobbish reaction of Labour’s Emily Thornberry to seeing an English flag during a by-election trip to Rochester? And who will be able to forget the remarkable footage this week of the BBC’s Charlie Stayt and Naga Munchetty sneering at a Cabinet minister for having a Union Jack in 
his office?

Nice to know I'm considered part of the elite 😁. I guess if you've got nothing else to feel part of, working yourself up about this gives you something to belong to. It's as risible as Xi banning Winnie the Pooh.

Maybe, just maybe, you're taking a joke about a flag a bit too seriously.

Well done for taking the bait, seems like you felt the need to make a case for the defence. But don't worry, I would never consider you as 'elite'

pangolin

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

What is it about politicians and their flags?

Dunno.

You're still obsessed, I see.

With what?

Of all the flags in all the world you could have picked...

When I googled '****ers with flags', look what pops up

So you do think flags are bad? It's helpful the telegraph have told us our position but what's yours?

orraloon

Funny how Telegraph "patriotism" doesn't extend to paying fully their UK taxes. See Barclay brothers and tax dodging.

Look, look over there, a unicorn waving a piece of coloured cloth....

pinkbikini

Stevo_666 said:

This article seems to sum up the Cake Stop attitude quite well:
https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/03/20/bbc-labour-share-nasty-problem-patriotism/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

Quote:
The Union flag row shows the yawning gap between the public and Britain’s urban progressive elites

What is so funny about patriotism? The Union flag, God Save the Queen, the Royal family, the Armed Forces: the majority of us don’t embrace the emblems of nationhood out of overweening pride, or because we think we are better than anyone else, or we lust after an imaginary past in which Britannia Ruled The Waves. It’s just that patriotism is normal, as humdrum as crotchety March weather or a morning cup of tea.

But that is not how a metropolitan minority sees it. At the more extreme fringes of the Left, the Union Jack is a badge of imperialism and demagoguery. (In contrast with the EU flag, which they stick on their bumpers.) British history is one crime after another, and British people should be ashamed of themselves.

But even more moderate “progressives” view patriotism as something gauche to be sniggered at. Who can forget the snobbish reaction of Labour’s Emily Thornberry to seeing an English flag during a by-election trip to Rochester? And who will be able to forget the remarkable footage this week of the BBC’s Charlie Stayt and Naga Munchetty sneering at a Cabinet minister for having a Union Jack in 
his office?

I have no problem with patriotism, but that is a typical lazy Telegraph article with what I think is called a performative utterance, that ‘patriotism is normal’. Whichever hack wrote that can’t even be bothered to back up their own argument.

Even the liberal metropolitan elite can feel patriotic from time to time - it’s just we operate on a higher plane and know there are more important principles 😉

shortfall

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56466291


More than 60 MPs and peers asking for protests to be permitted during lockdown, having allowed them to be banned without a murmur and saying nothing about it all year until a cause comes along that they support.

ETA can't get link to work.

blazing_saddles

This jingoistic bunch are a lot worse than politicians.

focuszing723

I love seeing people win and holding up their Countries flag with pride.

Pross

I suspect most of us are "patriotic" when it comes to sport. The whole thing with politicians surrounding themselves with them is a bit cringy though (and yes that hours for French, German, EU flags as much as the Union flag or Saltire). I blame the Americans for making it fashionable. EU seems particularly strange as who is patriotic to the EU (I'm also never sure if it is an EU flag or European flag).

morstar

If you read my earlier post. I said I had nothing wrong with encouraging patriotism.

I took issue with enforced jingoistic flag waving.
The Tory party are engaging in fake patriotism. The flag thing is new and mandated. It is an empty gesture.

As for the BBC presenters sneering. Hardly, they giggled. I also acknowledged that was a bit surprising.