Tour de France Stage 5 Ypres-Arenberg *Spoiler*

tailwindhome

Hey @olegtinkov, how's Biarritz? Everything is great up here in the north. Miss you.


@Vaughters I am conquering Col Tourmalet and Ospan today. Saturday will be there and show begins

No_Ta_Doctor

RichN95 wrote:

mulletmaster wrote:

Going to be a long couple of weeks for a relatively weak Astana squad when Saxo start throwing boys up the road every five minutes for day after day. They are lucky sky don't have a realistic GC hope as well.

Who exactly are Saxo going to throw up the road? After Contador, their next best riders are over 13 minutes back on GC.

Whereas Astana can throw Fuglsang up the road if they want and force Saxo to chase. I wouldn't be all that surprised to see them do that on some lumpy not-real-mountain stuff.

blazing_saddles

No tA Doctor wrote:

Not really been mentioned, but the shortness of yesterdays stage may also have contributed to the increased speed and the very early fight for position.

I'm looking forward to riders having to carry spare parts... Tradition....

Of course, if we want to test handling skills and allow other types of riders to shine then why not throw in a Cross TT? Over the log and up the steps you go, Alberto.

This is the other thing folks need to consider. Speed definitely a factor in all the crashes on standard roads.
However, this is as likely to have been caused by a very strong side/tailwind, as the length of the stage.
The Summer rain and wind being the real villains, yesterday.

keef_zip

Paul 8v wrote:

adr82 wrote:

D O G wrote:

Paul 8v wrote:

Didn't realise Contador had a mechanical issue, it would explain why he was losing time on the non-cobbled sections.

I can't believe that story that his sprockets were blocked with mud. Ridiculous.

Did sound a bit weird. Why him and nobody else? Stranger things have happened, but...

11 speed does not like mud, one (And this is not the only) disadvantage of 11 speed is the space between the sprockets is very tight, hence why some cross riders still run 9 speed.

Also I've had mud jam mechs so much before I couldn't change gear at all! We haven't seen a wet Paris Roubaix since 2002 and they certainly weren't running 11 speed back then, that was a fair amount of cack that got kicked up, I suppose it's quite possible

The sprocket spacing between 11 and 10 speed is virtually identical, so much so that you can run both on the same derailleur. I very much doubt that anyone in that race was running 9 speed.

adr82

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/merckx- ... -de-france

above_the_cows

iainf72 wrote:

Cool Pruddy. I look forward to the 350km stages, 4am starts, settling the race with a points system rather than time. All these are part of the Tours heritage too. :P

I want them to have to carry all their spares themselves, do their own repairs and raid shops for wine.

adr82

Above The Cows wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Cool Pruddy. I look forward to the 350km stages, 4am starts, settling the race with a points system rather than time. All these are part of the Tours heritage too. :P

I want them to have to carry all their spares themselves, do their own repairs and raid shops for wine.

Be hard to repair a broken carbon fork at the local blacksmith though...!

above_the_cows

adr82 wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Cool Pruddy. I look forward to the 350km stages, 4am starts, settling the race with a points system rather than time. All these are part of the Tours heritage too. :P

I want them to have to carry all their spares themselves, do their own repairs and raid shops for wine.

Be hard to repair a broken carbon fork at the local blacksmith though...!

They should ride iron bikes. Single speed. Wearing tweed.

Turfle

And they should be thankful for it.

adr82

Above The Cows wrote:

adr82 wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Cool Pruddy. I look forward to the 350km stages, 4am starts, settling the race with a points system rather than time. All these are part of the Tours heritage too. :P

I want them to have to carry all their spares themselves, do their own repairs and raid shops for wine.

Be hard to repair a broken carbon fork at the local blacksmith though...!

They should ride iron bikes. Single speed. Wearing tweed.

That's harsh. Tweed might be a bit over the top!

Edit: although it might be worth it just to see the reaction from FF...

above_the_cows

adr82 wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

adr82 wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Cool Pruddy. I look forward to the 350km stages, 4am starts, settling the race with a points system rather than time. All these are part of the Tours heritage too. :P

I want them to have to carry all their spares themselves, do their own repairs and raid shops for wine.

Be hard to repair a broken carbon fork at the local blacksmith though...!

They should ride iron bikes. Single speed. Wearing tweed.

That's harsh. Tweed might be a bit over the top!

Edit: although it might be worth it just to see the reaction from FF...

Nah you don't get saddle sores the size of Cheddar Gorge unless you wear tweed.

type:epyt

To put some perspective on things. Is this any worse than Cancellara and Boonen crashing out of Flanders in 2012 and 2013, respectively, and missing the remaining classics races?

mike6

Dont know about the rest of you but I am looking forward to the rest of the Tour as if it was my first time. I have no idea now what the tactics will be, who will be on the podium or who will step up for Sky. Porte, Thomas?

mulletmaster

RichN95 wrote:

mulletmaster wrote:

Going to be a long couple of weeks for a relatively weak Astana squad when Saxo start throwing boys up the road every five minutes for day after day. They are lucky sky don't have a realistic GC hope as well.

Who exactly are Saxo going to throw up the road? After Contador, their next best riders are over 13 minutes back on GC.

Indeed, I hadn't realised the rest of the bums had lost just so much time previously. I'm sure they are regretting that now. Just Talanksy, Porte, Kwiatek to some extent and AC to watch which is doable. Problem is Bertie looked like he could drop Nibs and the entire Astana team at will at the Dauphine, but that is something to look forward to in the mountains. Lucky he doesn't have Quintana, Jrod and even Wiggins to worry about too.

PuttyKnees

A great stage and not because of some kind of machismo, but because it tested some other aspect of bike racing than TT and MTF. I don't see any valid argument why such stages shouldn't be included in future. Certainly better than a sprint stage and no less dangerous either.

No_Ta_Doctor

type:epyt wrote:

To put some perspective on things. Is this any worse than Cancellara and Boonen crashing out of Flanders in 2012 and 2013, respectively, and missing the remaining classics races?

Yes. They're specialists that targeted a race that's known to be pretty dangerous. Rightly or wrongly, GT teams are built around riders that can climb and TT. That's the GT skillset. But every few years someone comes along and says "I know, let's make them do something different, where there's a high risk of crash and injury, where they're unlikely to be suited to riding the terrain".

Anonymous

But let's tell them a year in advance so they know about it and can practise?

I don't think its the danger so much as the skill required to get through quickly. Nibali showed he is superior at riding cobbles.

In a dry day, the same could have happened (re: splits).
I think the tour is better for it. If Froome had made it onto the cobbles, I would imagine he'd have lost the same time as AC.
If Wiggins were riding, I think he would have been up there with Nibbles if he was allowed to ride with GT (not bringing up the BW debate, just saying that cobbles are another part of what makes a rounded rider).

ugo.santalucia

No tA Doctor wrote:

But every few years someone comes along and says "I know, let's make them do something different, where there's a high risk of crash and injury, where they're unlikely to be suited to riding the terrain".

As a matter of facts, nobody got injured on the cobbles and most of the injuries happen at roundabouts... I would say roundabouts are more dangerous than cobbles, but don't add much to the race...

philbar72

RichN95 wrote:

mulletmaster wrote:

Going to be a long couple of weeks for a relatively weak Astana squad when Saxo start throwing boys up the road every five minutes for day after day. They are lucky sky don't have a realistic GC hope as well.

Who exactly are Saxo going to throw up the road? After Contador, their next best riders are over 13 minutes back on GC.

Probably Roche or majka. Rogers will be Contadors super domestique ( probably) with one of the other 2 helping when not trying to break.

ugo.santalucia

I stand to be corrected, but neither Cancellara in 2012 nor Boonen in 2013 actually fell on the cobbles... let's stop riding on tarmac, I would say!

ddraver

argyllflyer wrote:

Something that's been touched upon was whether or not the crashes on the tarmac were or were not related to it being a cobbled stage.

I've heard a few opinions on this and I'm sure others have too. Nikki Terpstra told Eurosport that the peloton was riding atypically in the first 80km precisely because the cobbles were coming up. He said the peloton was nervous, and when the rain and wind were factored in, crashes were inevitable. He said that had it been a normal flat stage (like today perhaps) there would have been less tension, positioning would have been less important (and I'd suggest the pace would have been slower too seeing as they ease up as soon as an acceptable break gets away). So in his opinion, Froome's crash (and the others that occured on the tarmac) were directly related to it being a cobbled stage. Secondly, I heard it said that the softer tyre choice for the 14km of cobbles might have made it harder to ride the 140km of road, especially in the wet. I'm sure I heard a comment that it was easier to ride on the cobbles than the flat.

Dank je Wel Nikki! Nice to see a cyclist with a brain

A few people need to take a step back and look at the whole picture rather than just yesterday...

adr82

No tA Doctor wrote:

type:epyt wrote:

To put some perspective on things. Is this any worse than Cancellara and Boonen crashing out of Flanders in 2012 and 2013, respectively, and missing the remaining classics races?

Yes. They're specialists that targeted a race that's known to be pretty dangerous. Rightly or wrongly, GT teams are built around riders that can climb and TT. That's the GT skillset. But every few years someone comes along and says "I know, let's make them do something different, where there's a high risk of crash and injury, where they're unlikely to be suited to riding the terrain".

A grand tour is meant to be the greatest challenge that a cyclist will face in their career. If that means they have to do things they're uncomfortable with then too bad for them. This wasn't a last minute surprise, they knew it was coming and had the chance to prepare for it.

The weather was the big problem yesterday, not the cobbles. When it rains, people tend to fall off a lot more, cobbles or not. The knowledge the cobbles were coming contributed to how the first part of the stage was raced, but even so you can't argue the GC riders really dealt that badly with it. The only one who failed to finish was already carrying an injury, and most of the other "real contenders" all finished within something like 30-40 seconds of each other. If Nibali hadn't done so well, say he had finished with Contador or Porte, would people be making such a fuss about the stage? Yesterday came at a really bad time for Froome, but if his wrist was already giving him problems then even a normal flat wet road stage would have had a high chance of putting him on the deck again.

joelsim

I don't think we can forget that Contador is capable of going on his own as seen at T-A and on the last stage of the Dauphine when he very nearly pulled it off

adr82

Joelsim wrote:

I don't think we can forget that Contador is capable of going on his own as seen at T-A and on the last stage of the Dauphine when he very nearly pulled it off

Absolutely. I'm looking forward to seeing what he does to pull back Nibali.

ddraver

Crozza wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Part of Nibali's "luck" in avoiding fallen riders was surely due to him riding metal rims. Certainly when his own team mate went down on a corner in front of him he only just stopped in time I reckon trying to stop on wet carbon would have seen him hit the rider and go down himself.

eh? in all the photos I've seen he is using Corima Viva (carbon) tubs

Nah DeVlaemink has a hard on becasue he used Vino's old Ambrosio rims (which in fairness could have been a hell of a lucky mista....derm...tactical decision)

Anonymous

NEMESIS rims!

ugo.santalucia

coriordan wrote:

NEMESIS rims!

No, he was riding Corima carbon tubulars...

ddraver

PuttyKnees wrote:

A great stage and not because of some kind of machismo, but because it tested some other aspect of bike racing than TT and MTF. I don't see any valid argument why such stages shouldn't be included in future. Certainly better than a sprint stage and no less dangerous either.

I'm going to try this one more time but it is dangerous because the peloton are nervous for a whole 100km rather than just 10. Of course that makes a difference. Anyone who has watched the classics knows that essentially the entry to every sector/berg is the equivalent of a sprint stage...except with a peloton of 100 rather than 190

If it had just been a road stage in the rain then the peloton would have knocked the pace off significantly, but BECASUE of the cobbles that is not possible

Can you not see that or won't you see it?

The question is for people is is one day's excitement worth ruining the rest of the race for (a la Armstrong/Mayo)

ddraver

ugo.santalucia wrote:

coriordan wrote:

NEMESIS rims!

No, he was riding Corima carbon tubulars...

Goddammit GCN!! Can't even get you super slow talking top 5 videos right now?!?!? #NicheReferences

r0bh

ddraver wrote:

I'm going to try this one more time but it is dangerous because the peloton are nervous for a whole 100km rather than just 10. Of course that makes a difference. Anyone who has watched the classics knows that essentially the entry to every sector/berg is the equivalent of a sprint stage...except with a peloton of 100 rather than 190

140 riders finished this year's P-R. At the entrance to the first sector of cobbles the vast majority of starters i.e. 180-ish would still be in the race. There really wouldn't be as much difference as you are claiming at the first sector. Obviously as the sectors go on the peloton will be whittled down in both cases.