Tour de France Stage 5 Ypres-Arenberg *Spoiler*

Crampeur

ThomThom wrote:

Froome didn't abandon because of injury today did he.

It was as much a mental thing as a physical thing. Although if he did fracture his wrist, it's hardly surprising.

Pross

TMR wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

adr82 wrote:

So are we just ignoring the whole "Froome and Wiggins can't stand each other" thing then?

Yes. We're also ignoring Wiggins's history of being awful in the rain and Porte being 8th on GC.

Except we aren't, because he's not. As other members have posted repeatedly in this very thread. Porte sucks - he won't stay 8th. He has had crap form recently and we've seen him struggle in this TdF already.

That must have passed me by - he had a crash at the bottom of Holme Moss that cost him nearly two minutes and he had pulled it back by the top.

frenchfighter

Simon Yates lost 18mins...

Paolini was nowhere to be seen either.

overlord2

ThomThom wrote:

Froome didn't abandon because of injury today did he.

No. He just wanted to go back home on safari.

r0bh

Above The Cows wrote:

Pross wrote:

Epic. OK, now it has finished would AtC and DDRaver like to comment on whether the race would be better without this stage? It should make the mountains even better as well.

Personally I don't particularly like watching people suffer excessively for our entertainment. I would have liked to have seen a full on battle between Contador and Froome. Maybe it's just me but I don't get the excessive need to get the testosterone flowing by enjoy such brutal things, that's not why I like cycling.

But the riders also suffer excessively on long alpine climbs in 30 degree heat. They just suffer in a different way. No?

TMR

adr82 wrote:

[Exactly what are you saying then...?

Are you really telling me that my last post was unclear?

tailwindhome

Has Iain graded the stage yet?

thomthom

Crampeur wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

Froome didn't abandon because of injury today did he.

It was as much a mental thing as a physical thing. Although if he did fracture his wrist, it's hardly surprising.

What it looked to me as well.

tom3

The skysports breaking news banner is a tad harsh. The poor lad didn't 'quit' the tour really, he was obviously too injured to continue.

thomthom

Matt Hayman after the stage: "Not enough cobbles actually"

frenchfighter

I really hope the on-board cameras got some good footage today

adr82

TMR wrote:

adr82 wrote:

[Exactly what are you saying then...?

Are you really telling me that my last post was unclear?

Not so much unclear as contradictory. You basically claim you could solve the Froome vs Wiggo situation that has dogged Sky for 3 years or more in a couple of minutes, then turn around and say you don't think Brailsford is a bad manager. Surely if it was that easy to sort out and Brailsford hasn't done it he must be bad at his job?

tailwindhome

Remember when Wiggins couldn't ride in the wet?

Good Times.

rick_chasey

Not really the thread to discuss wiggins is it?

frenchfighter

Any non-GT specialist complaining repping this stage - well how about you go and race the 10 other races available and how about you show something in them?

As it stands Great Champion Nibali and his faithful and strong domestiques smoked the rest of the 'classics' riders.

tailwindhome

Rick Chasey wrote:

Not really the thread to discuss wiggins is it?

Oh. It will be.

The_Boy

Above The Cows wrote:

The_Boy wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

Pross wrote:

Epic. OK, now it has finished would AtC and DDRaver like to comment on whether the race would be better without this stage? It should make the mountains even better as well.

Personally I don't particularly like watching people suffer excessively for our entertainment. I would have liked to have seen a full on battle between Contador and Froome. Maybe it's just me but I don't get the excessive need to get the testosterone flowing by enjoy such brutal things, that's not why I like cycling.

It's why I don't like rugby or football or boxing. To me it isn't entertaining to watch people fall off and laugh about it. I've never watched cycling for the 'hardmen'. For me it is a different type of sport.

If I'm honest this is one of the few times on this forum where I have really felt like I don't belong here, with the level of machoness on display. I haven't enjoyed it. I think we can all approach these things differently and that there is space for those differences to be appreciated. People going on gloating and being silly about other people's valid opinions is not what for me this place was about, there's the other place for that.

I actually have a lot of sympathy with this position. The only disagreement I have is that I don't believe that stages like today's are actually any worse than a nervous, wet flat stage in the first week of a GT.

Yes there were crashes, but apart from Froome they all made it back in one piece. And I reckon Chris' race was run yesterday, tbh.

I think his wrist was a lot worse than he was letting on, a bit like Cuddles and his broken elbow.

I think for me, its not that stages like this are worse than a wet stage, of course weather is part of the whole thing, its that it is designed to engender drama with other people's bodies, I think it's the 'design' part of it, that bothers me. The weather you can do nothing about, but this route was designed by someone who wanted to entertain us by hopefully making people crash. That is my problem.

On the first point I agree entirely. I reckon he was hoping to get through today and then recover in time for the mountains.

On the last point, I'm not entirely convinced that the organisers are actively hoping for people to crash. I simply don't see any more suffering on a day like today than on any other hard stage. It's definitely a unique discipline and, like super steep finishes, I don't think they should be an every day occurrence in stage races but I honestly believe that they have their place. It's just another skillset that riders need to either learn or try to use their smarts/team mates to minimise losses.

All imo, obviously, and ymmv. I also don't think the sort of carping you referred to in a previous post has a place on the forum.

frenchfighter

Degenkolb 18mins back. Greipel 18mins back. Kittel 18mins back. These German brutes should be at the front end. Such softies.

frenchfighter

@millarmind · 21h
I just thought i'd lost my hat, I hadn't. That moment puts everything in perspective.

above_the_cows

Pross wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

Pross wrote:

Epic. OK, now it has finished would AtC and DDRaver like to comment on whether the race would be better without this stage? It should make the mountains even better as well.

Personally I don't particularly like watching people suffer excessively for our entertainment. I would have liked to have seen a full on battle between Contador and Froome. Maybe it's just me but I don't get the excessive need to get the testosterone flowing by enjoy such brutal things, that's not why I like cycling.

It's why I don't like rugby or football or boxing. To me it isn't entertaining to watch people fall off and laugh about it. I've never watched cycling for the 'hardmen'. For me it is a different type of sport.

If I'm honest this is one of the few times on this forum where I have really felt like I don't belong here, with the level of machoness on display. I haven't enjoyed it. I think we can all approach these things differently and that there is space for those differences to be appreciated. People going on gloating and being silly about other people's valid opinions is not what for me this place was about, there's the other place for that.

Do you really believe that riders on mountain stages in the rain (or in the heat) are not suffering equally if not more so than the riders did today? I can guarantee that Lars Boom will have enjoyed today far more than he will enjoy the Alps. It's nothing to do with machismo, it is all about good racing. Nibali grasped the conditions and used them, others less so. Froome was unlucky and I'm disappointed for him but in reality I think his race was over yesterday and the cobbles played no part in his misfortune other than the risk of aggravating the pain had he reached them. You usually argue your case well but today you haven't been able to do so as the stage and its outcome worked against your point of view.

It's not about the suffering its about the enjoyment of that suffering that puts me off. I want to enjoy athletic ability and smarts, not who's got the muddiest and got the biggest pair of balls. To me it reads as machismo. It's not about the stage going against my point of view its about the stage being purposefully designed to engender drama at the expense of human beings. I still stand by my point of view. I don't like these 'entertainment' stages in GTs. I'm not trying to win an argument, that other people enjoyed it, that is fine. I didn't really and I've explained why. I think we can allow people to not enjoy some stages that other people find great. As I said I have felt a little uncomfortable on here today, like watching people enjoy the gladiatorial ring.

rick_chasey

TailWindHome wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Not really the thread to discuss wiggins is it?

Oh. It will be.

*practices ban hammer swing*

tailwindhome

1 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Astana Pro Team 20:26:46
2 Jakob Fuglsang (Den) Astana Pro Team 0:00:02
3 Peter Sagan (Svk) Cannondale 0:00:44
4 Michal Kwiatkowski (Pol) Omega Pharma - Quick-Step Cycling Team 0:00:50
5 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Trek Factory Racing 0:01:17
6 Jurgen Van Den Broeck (Bel) Lotto Belisol 0:01:45
7 Tony Gallopin (Fra) Lotto Belisol
8 Richie Porte (Aus) Team Sky 0:01:54
9 Andrew Talansky (USA) Garmin Sharp 0:02:05
10 Alejandro Valverde Belmonte (Spa) Movistar Team 0:02:11

adr82

Above The Cows wrote:

pb21 wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

I've never watched cycling for the 'hardmen'. For me it is a different type of sport.

Cycling is one of the hardest hard man sports there is IMO, even the 10 mile TTs on dry days.

I think it depends on how you define hardmen. I don't define it as testosterone fueled macho aggression and enjoyment of people falling off. That's what was on display a lot on here today.

I think it was more "excitement" than "aggression". If this'd been a typical flat dry road stage nothing would have happened until the last 10-20k. Today there were things happening all day long, and it was great viewing because of it. Sure there were lots of crashes, but nobody has been seriously injured (as far as I know anyway). On wet (or even dry) mountain descents there's far more scope for serious injury. The weather made today what it was, and nobody could have planned that.

takethehighroad

frenchfighter wrote:

Degenkolb 18mins back. Greipel 18mins back. Kittel 18mins back. These German brutes should be at the front end. Such softies.

Hungover after the football last night

Edited to put a bit of context in to it

Pross

frenchfighter wrote:

Degenkolb 18mins back. Greipel 18mins back. Kittel 18mins back. These German brutes should be at the front end. Such softies.

They all crashed early on to be fair (before the first cobbles from memory).

frenchfighter

TakeTheHighRoad wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Degenkolb 18mins back. Greipel 18mins back. Kittel 18mins back. These German brutes should be at the front end. Such softies.

Hungover after the football last night

Edited to put a bit of context in to it

Fair enough. That was a bit of an outlier.

frenchfighter

Coach H

TMR wrote:

And for the record, Brailsford's management style is crap. He is amazing at process, but crap at discipline based on the instances and sources that are publicly available.

I think you are right, which is why he had Sutton barking at the track team and Yates and Sutton doing that bit at SKY. Now he's got Portal at SKY and that bits not quite working

talius

Ji Cheng 23.08

tailwindhome

Rick Chasey wrote:

*practices ban hammer swing*