2015 Gear

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  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    edited October 2014
    nic_77 wrote:
    It's denser than air though, right?


    Yes, but again I stress that no one, ever, anywhere, has been able to prove it changes Crr in any measurable or significant way.

    I would take the 1 or 2 second hit (if it DOES slow you down) over not finishing at all.


    If you have some evidence to the contrary, I would genuinely be interested in seeing it. It won't stop me using it for all my training and most of my racing wheels, but would reconsider putting it in my very best TT tubs, although I've never won or lost an important TT by a small margin.
  • nic_77
    nic_77 Posts: 929
    With regard to Crr - I couldn't find anything with a brief search either... so we'll put that concern on ice for now :)

    Why slow down (even a little) every ride to save you on the one where you flat. Bear in mind you'll lose a good dose of air whilst the sealant works anyway so that race has gone already.

    Interesting chat. Thanks for your thoughts.
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  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    nic_77 wrote:
    With regard to Crr - I couldn't find anything with a brief search either... so we'll put that concern on ice for now :)

    Why slow down (even a little) every ride to save you on the one where you flat. Bear in mind you'll lose a good dose of air whilst the sealant works anyway so that race has gone already.

    Interesting chat. Thanks for your thoughts.

    You're assuming it DOES slow you down (which we both agree may not even be the case).

    It will realistically only stop a very small puncture - but I would think that it would basically seal it up straight away so you wouldn't know you had even punctured.

    The type of hole that would allow any significant amount of air to escape probably won't be sealed up but he foam/sealant/latex anyway.

    And for most of my TTs - having the race 'over' is OK with me - if there is enough air left in the tyre to get me back to my car! I don't carry a spare anything (not even a phone) on a 10 or 25 mile TT.
  • nic_77
    nic_77 Posts: 929
    It definitely does slow you down, physics says it must. However, we can debate whether it is a measurable or significant amount...

    The trouble is you don't lose much air whilst a seal is formed with an MTB tyre... but with a high pressure road bike tyre the loss can be significant.

    I agree with not carrying anything on a TT btw, so I appreciate the value when it happens. I've certainly walked back before now (and ruined a pair of socks in the process) :)

    I'm not questioning your decision by the way, I just wanted to know your justification. Happy to disagree.
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  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    nic_77 wrote:
    It definitely does slow you down, physics says it must. However, we can debate whether it is a measurable or significant amount...

    The trouble is you don't lose much air whilst a seal is formed with an MTB tyre... but with a high pressure road bike tyre the loss can be significant.

    I agree with not carrying anything on a TT btw, so I appreciate the value when it happens. I've certainly walked back before now (and ruined a pair of socks in the process) :)

    I'm not questioning your decision by the way, I just wanted to know your justification. Happy to disagree.

    I hate clogging up a good thread with (healthy) debate....

    But why does physics say it must slow you down? What if it goes in as foam but quickly turns to liquid (latex) and coats the inside of the tube. What about that would slow you down? I assume you think that if it stays as foam the air in the tube becomes 'thicker' thus affecting deflection?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:
    I got one of them in one of these which decathlon were selling off for 4.99 - included inner tube and levers as well - good in the bottle cage - I'm keeping the inflator until I get a puncture in the worst conditions - you know the Sunday club ride return journey it's hailing and you are beginning to bonk :x

    Who goes out on the club run when it's hailing?? :wink:
    _
  • nic_77
    nic_77 Posts: 929
    Pokerface wrote:
    nic_77 wrote:
    It definitely does slow you down, physics says it must. However, we can debate whether it is a measurable or significant amount...

    The trouble is you don't lose much air whilst a seal is formed with an MTB tyre... but with a high pressure road bike tyre the loss can be significant.

    I agree with not carrying anything on a TT btw, so I appreciate the value when it happens. I've certainly walked back before now (and ruined a pair of socks in the process) :)

    I'm not questioning your decision by the way, I just wanted to know your justification. Happy to disagree.

    I hate clogging up a good thread with (healthy) debate....

    But why does physics say it must slow you down? What if it goes in as foam but quickly turns to liquid (latex) and coats the inside of the tube. What about that would slow you down? I assume you think that if it stays as foam the air in the tube becomes 'thicker' thus affecting deflection?
    Yeah, sorry for taking this off-topic.

    Greater rotating weight = slower. Mind you, not many people run helium or, better still, hydrogen filled tyres.
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  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    nic_77 wrote:

    Greater rotating weight = slower. Mind you, not many people run helium or, better still, hydrogen filled tyres.


    So it's just rotating weight that you think would slow down the wheel? First of all, it's adding a few grams, not a few pounds. And rotating weight is only an issue with acceleration, not once the wheel is in motion AFAIK.

    It sounds like you're looking for a reason why this stuff would slow you down, but in reality there probably isn't one.

    The physics of what you say are probably accurate, but the real-world application of them is virtually non-existant.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    nic_77 wrote:
    I agree with not carrying anything on a TT btw, so I appreciate the value when it happens. I've certainly walked back before now (and ruined a pair of socks in the process) :)

    So, you would rather walk, who knows how far, than carry a spare tube in a TT? This is fooling yourself kind of thinking and anal behaviour at best. What kind of moron doesn't take flat protection with them? Except possibly on short course circuits, crits? What's worse is even thinking that carrying or not carrying will make any difference. OK, maybe the difference between 14 & 15 place in your cat 5 race, and I even doubt that. :roll:
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    edited October 2014
    dennisn wrote:
    nic_77 wrote:
    I agree with not carrying anything on a TT btw, so I appreciate the value when it happens. I've certainly walked back before now (and ruined a pair of socks in the process) :)

    So, you would rather walk, who knows how far, than carry a spare tube in a TT? This is fooling yourself kind of thinking and anal behaviour at best. What kind of moron doesn't take flat protection with them? Except possibly on short course circuits, crits? What's worse is even thinking that carrying or not carrying will make any difference. OK, maybe the difference between 14 & 15 place in your cat 5 race, and I even doubt that. :roll:


    Dennis - you've obviously never ridden a TT in your life. Certainly not on a modern TT bike. Racing in a skinsuit, etc. Racing on tubular tyres means you don't get to carry a spare, unless it's a whole tyre. Where exactly do you think you would carry a spare tyre? Wrapped around your shoulders?

    99% of people riding short TTs do not carry any form of spares. And by short I mean 10 and 25 miles.

    If you want to discuss the merits of racing with tubulars, start a new thread in Amateur Race, or a thread in Workshop if you want to discuss how to fix/replace a tubular tyre.

    Let's leave THIS thread to a discussion of NEW 2015 GEAR perhaps?
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,697
    dis%20gon%20be%20good.gif
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    Back to 2015 gear...

    Here's a cool idea for a new product. Might help in the TTs where you can't carry a spare pump. CO2 cartridge goes inside the crank spindle. If you use Shimano.

    crank-pump.jpg

    Now, where to store the spare tyre? :lol:
  • nic_77
    nic_77 Posts: 929
    Pokerface wrote:
    Back to 2015 gear...

    Here's a cool idea for a new product. Might help in the TTs where you can't carry a spare pump. CO2 cartridge goes inside the crank spindle. If you use Shimano.

    crank-pump.jpg

    Now, where to store the spare tyre? :lol:
    Oh my - think of the weight!!

    (Joke! Nice idea)

    I agree that there probably is no real world issue. Just seems odd to me.
    Now back on topic.
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  • Paul 8v
    Paul 8v Posts: 5,458
    Pokerface wrote:
    Back to 2015 gear...

    Here's a cool idea for a new product. Might help in the TTs where you can't carry a spare pump. CO2 cartridge goes inside the crank spindle. If you use Shimano.

    crank-pump.jpg

    Now, where to store the spare tyre? :lol:
    Now that is a nice idea. I always carry co2 rather than a full pump and that gets it out of the way nicely.

    Dennis, unless your local club is really horrible I would hope one of the other riders would point out a 'man down' or the marshal on their way back to HQ would help.

    I'm afraid I had trouble getting my bike down to the UCI limit with my panniers on the back so I took them off, the skinsuit has no pockets and the spinal tap style "tube down your pants" was outlawed by my club a few years back.
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  • jscl
    jscl Posts: 1,015
    Pokerface wrote:
    Back to 2015 gear...

    Here's a cool idea for a new product. Might help in the TTs where you can't carry a spare pump. CO2 cartridge goes inside the crank spindle. If you use Shimano.

    crank-pump.jpg

    Now, where to store the spare tyre? :lol:
    I wonder what'd happen if it were to explode.... Seems interesting :)
    Follow me on Twitter - http://twitter.com/scalesjason - All posts are strictly my personal view.
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    JSCL wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    Back to 2015 gear...

    Here's a cool idea for a new product. Might help in the TTs where you can't carry a spare pump. CO2 cartridge goes inside the crank spindle. If you use Shimano.

    crank-pump.jpg

    Now, where to store the spare tyre? :lol:
    I wonder what'd happen if it were to explode.... Seems interesting :)


    I'd rather it exploded there than in my back pocket!
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Pokerface wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    nic_77 wrote:
    I agree with not carrying anything on a TT btw, so I appreciate the value when it happens. I've certainly walked back before now (and ruined a pair of socks in the process) :)

    So, you would rather walk, who knows how far, than carry a spare tube in a TT? This is fooling yourself kind of thinking and anal behaviour at best. What kind of moron doesn't take flat protection with them? Except possibly on short course circuits, crits? What's worse is even thinking that carrying or not carrying will make any difference. OK, maybe the difference between 14 & 15 place in your cat 5 race, and I even doubt that. :roll:


    Dennis - you've obviously never ridden a TT in your life. Certainly not on a modern TT bike. Racing in a skinsuit, etc. Racing on tubular tyres means you don't get to carry a spare, unless it's a whole tyre. Where exactly do you think you would carry a spare tyre? Wrapped around your shoulders?

    99% of people riding short TTs do not carry any form of spares. And by short I mean 10 and 25 miles.

    If you want to discuss the merits of racing with tubulars, start a new thread in Amateur Race, or a thread in Workshop if you want to discuss how to fix/replace a tubular tyre.

    Let's leave THIS thread to a discussion of NEW 2015 GEAR perhaps?

    Gimme a break. You talk all this "pro talk" if you will, but you're just playing at it. Bunch of guys acting like they need to get lighter tubes, lighter wheels, race bikes, carbon everything, TT specific bikes, the latest everything. All this from you and others who simply happen to be a group of people who are club racers and weekend warriors at best.
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    dennisn wrote:

    Gimme a break. You talk all this "pro talk" if you will, but you're just playing at it. Bunch of guys acting like they need to get lighter tubes, lighter wheels, race bikes, carbon everything, TT specific bikes, the latest everything. All this from you and others who simply happen to be a group of people who are club racers and weekend warriors at best.


    Yes, of course. What was I thinking? I'm just an average club rider at best.

    Banner_zps74ed5c13.jpg
  • Paul 8v
    Paul 8v Posts: 5,458
    Not sure Colin is a weekend warrior. I am a clubman but I have an appreciation for nice bikes. If it didn't matter we'd all ride about on shopping bikes. Part of the appeal (for some) is the gear. Who wouldn't want a light, efficient bike?

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  • inseine
    inseine Posts: 5,788
    Pokerface wrote:
    dennisn wrote:

    Gimme a break. You talk all this "pro talk" if you will, but you're just playing at it. Bunch of guys acting like they need to get lighter tubes, lighter wheels, race bikes, carbon everything, TT specific bikes, the latest everything. All this from you and others who simply happen to be a group of people who are club racers and weekend warriors at best.


    Yes, of course. What was I thinking? I'm just an average club rider at best.

    Banner_zps74ed5c13.jpg

    Busted big time there. I almost feel sorry for Dennis.
    Nice pictures by the way.
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  • antsmithmk
    antsmithmk Posts: 717
    Pokerface wrote:
    dennisn wrote:

    Gimme a break. You talk all this "pro talk" if you will, but you're just playing at it. Bunch of guys acting like they need to get lighter tubes, lighter wheels, race bikes, carbon everything, TT specific bikes, the latest everything. All this from you and others who simply happen to be a group of people who are club racers and weekend warriors at best.


    Yes, of course. What was I thinking? I'm just an average club rider at best.

    Banner_zps74ed5c13.jpg

    Owned.
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    This the PRO RACE section of the forum and this thread really is supposed to be about new kit - most of for PRO level racing. It's not about what new arm warms are available for a fiver at the local sporting goods shop this year.

    Whether you race competitively or not, the kit and discussions here are about top-level stuff. If you aren't interested in it, why come here and harsh on everyone's mellow?
  • kingstonian
    kingstonian Posts: 2,847
    Pokerface wrote:
    dennisn wrote:

    Gimme a break. You talk all this "pro talk" if you will, but you're just playing at it. Bunch of guys acting like they need to get lighter tubes, lighter wheels, race bikes, carbon everything, TT specific bikes, the latest everything. All this from you and others who simply happen to be a group of people who are club racers and weekend warriors at best.


    Yes, of course. What was I thinking? I'm just an average club rider at best.

    Banner_zps74ed5c13.jpg


    Hahaha, brilliant riposte !!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • kingstonian
    kingstonian Posts: 2,847
    Pokerface wrote:
    Back to 2015 gear...

    Here's a cool idea for a new product. Might help in the TTs where you can't carry a spare pump. CO2 cartridge goes inside the crank spindle. If you use Shimano.

    crank-pump.jpg

    Now, where to store the spare tyre? :lol:


    That's a really neat idea.

    Genuine question - could there be a way to have some form of sealant added in the CO2 canister?
  • Paul 8v
    Paul 8v Posts: 5,458
    Pokerface wrote:
    This the PRO RACE section of the forum and this thread really is supposed to be about new kit - most of for PRO level racing. It's not about what new arm warms are available for a fiver at the local sporting goods shop this year.

    Whether you race competitively or not, the kit and discussions here are about top-level stuff. If you aren't interested in it, why come here and harsh on everyone's mellow?
    Because no one is responding to the never ending trolling in the Lance thread I suppose...
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  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Pokerface wrote:
    dennisn wrote:

    Gimme a break. You talk all this "pro talk" if you will, but you're just playing at it. Bunch of guys acting like they need to get lighter tubes, lighter wheels, race bikes, carbon everything, TT specific bikes, the latest everything. All this from you and others who simply happen to be a group of people who are club racers and weekend warriors at best.


    Yes, of course. What was I thinking? I'm just an average club rider at best.

    Banner_zps74ed5c13.jpg

    I am very sorry for having misjudged you. Really. :oops:
    However, yeah you all knew that was coming, I still stand by my thoughts that most of the debates here(about whatever) don't add up to a hill of beans to the average rider. Whether or not some sort of foam will have negative or positive effects on rolling resistance is, to me, in a word, bizarre.
  • jimmythecuckoo
    jimmythecuckoo Posts: 4,718
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Bolle-6th-Sense-3-600x400.jpg
    Bolle-6th-Sense-2-600x400.jpg
    $160-200


    Good to see Bolle back. I had a pair of Indurain style Micro Edge back in the 90's.

    The second pair that OGRE have ridden in this season are poor, but I would take the first ones.
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  • jimmythecuckoo
    jimmythecuckoo Posts: 4,718
    Kingstonian wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    Back to 2015 gear...

    Here's a cool idea for a new product. Might help in the TTs where you can't carry a spare pump. CO2 cartridge goes inside the crank spindle. If you use Shimano.

    crank-pump.jpg

    Now, where to store the spare tyre? :lol:


    That's a really neat idea.

    Genuine question - could there be a way to have some form of sealant added in the CO2 canister?


    Isn't there a crowd funding crank pump out there, or is it that one?

    might be worth investing a tenner :)
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    Beers of Belgium Cycling Club UK
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    jimmythecuckoo wrote:
    The second pair that OGRE have ridden in this season are poor, but I would take the first ones.

    Aren't they the same, just the 2nd has "blinkers".
  • shazzz
    shazzz Posts: 1,077
    Wiggo's camper van.
    :shock:

    http://www.mclarensportshomes.co.uk/Mclaren%20Sporthome%20-%20Sir%20Bradley%20Wiggins%20Motorhome/index.html

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